Old 06-25-2016, 11:42 PM   #941
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

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Also can we talk about how 9 out of 41 doesn't make a AAA-fest like there's still 32 spots where you can not AAA kbye.
I mean yeah, the top of D6 is doing well, but the cutoff for D6 is currently 61-9-10-13
That's really not that high a bar to jump over to make it to the next round and have another week to improve.

It'll obviously get tighter over the next few days, but D6 is anything but an AAA-fest.
Remember rounds where it would be posted and be AAA or die within a few hours?
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Old 06-25-2016, 11:43 PM   #942
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

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If people don't understand this, the only thing they'll be thinking about is how "rigged" it is, a kind of thought that trumps above all else, including suggestions to improve.
I hate to put it this way, but its accurate: divisions are simply to make people feel better in a sense; to allow people who don't stack up to still participate. Being top of your division is completely arbitrary and means nothing unless you're in D7, in which case you're the best.

But hey, slap #1 on something and people will pull all the salt and bs they need to get there.
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Old 06-25-2016, 11:51 PM   #943
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

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Old 06-25-2016, 11:55 PM   #944
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

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I mean yeah, the top of D6 is doing well, but the cutoff for D6 is currently 61-9-10-13
That's really not that high a bar to jump over to make it to the next round and have another week to improve.

It'll obviously get tighter over the next few days, but D6 is anything but an AAA-fest.
Remember rounds where it would be posted and be AAA or die within a few hours?
grats d6 on being the first div where the cutoff is tougher than "play the song"
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Old 06-25-2016, 11:58 PM   #945
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

What about if there was 2 files per division released pre-tournament (or perhaps on another engine OR the previous years tournament files) that decided whether you are DXA or DXB? 1 file matching the difficulty of a round 1 file and the other matching a round 3 file, thus determining your potential progress? It doesn't have to be implemented for all divisions, maybe just 4>? Not sure if this has been mentioned/used in the past but I'm just throwing suggestions out there. Feedback?
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:02 AM   #946
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

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I hate to put it this way, but its accurate: divisions are simply to make people feel better in a sense; to allow people who don't stack up to still participate. Being top of your division is completely arbitrary and means nothing unless you're in D7, in which case you're the best.

But hey, slap #1 on something and people will pull all the salt and bs they need to get there.
So continuing from what I said here:
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Originally Posted by bmah View Post
Perhaps every tournament should have some sort of quick preamble in regards to the nature of a multi-divisional tournament
I also think the explanation should include the reason why divisions are used for these official tournaments: solely to make participation more inviting and open. The alternative - a divisionless tournament - is very much survival of the fittest and the true winner will really only be a D7 player. For a tournament in which all members of this site may be involved, this isn't the preferable situation.

Besides that reasoning, divisions are technically arbitrary, yes. Hope that explains things a bit.

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What about if there was 2 files per division released pre-tournament (or perhaps on another engine OR the previous years tournament files) that decided whether you are DXA or DXB?
I find that 2 files are statistically insufficient to predetermine placements. Said 2 files can only test so much of a person's skill set.

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Old 06-26-2016, 12:06 AM   #947
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:08 AM   #948
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

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What about if there was 2 files per division released pre-tournament (or perhaps on another engine OR the previous years tournament files) that decided whether you are DXA or DXB? 1 file matching the difficulty of a round 1 file and the other matching a round 3 file, thus determining your potential progress? It doesn't have to be implemented for all divisions, maybe just 4>? Not sure if this has been mentioned/used in the past but I'm just throwing suggestions out there. Feedback?
this would be a good idea if everyone could be 100% trusted, but in reality wouldn't really work because of sandbagging and rust
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:08 AM   #949
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You'd have to play like, what, 370~ times per hour?
That's absurd


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Old 06-26-2016, 12:17 AM   #950
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

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I mean yeah, the top of D6 is doing well, but the cutoff for D6 is currently 61-9-10-13
That's really not that high a bar to jump over to make it to the next round and have another week to improve.

It'll obviously get tighter over the next few days, but D6 is anything but an AAA-fest.
Remember rounds where it would be posted and be AAA or die within a few hours?

This is absolute truth right here. For the past 5 tournaments I've been a part of, this is what it's been like. Especially, within the first 3 or 4 rounds of the tournament. I, personally, only made it past round 2 in D6 ONCE in 5 years. (Last year made it to Round 4 before being eliminated by a cut-off where it was a blackflag or better to advance)

The problem is, and I've said this to AJ and Kayla, D6 has always had a gap in skill. I've always been on the lower-mid lower end of the spectrum because come tournament time, I can never seem to skill boost like others can (Dammit). However, constantly making more and more divisions would be pointless. Here's the thing, I've ranted and raved over stuff a lot before, but now, I've kind of grown up to where, "hey, competition is what tournaments are about."

Everyone needs to understand this. If the complaining keeps going, I wouldn't be surprised to see an OSU style bracket tournament happen. That would be really upsetting.

In all honesty, competition is what makes people better. PRACTICE makes people better. There are so many tools out there to use to improve skill. (I.E. - Isolation Tool/Stepmania/Rates/etc.)

Just abuse these luxuries as MUCH as possible, and that's how you will advance. Eventually you'll hit your limit where your skill is where it's at and you either advance or you don't.

I've been a part of a grand total of 7 officials. Have never placed in top 8 once. Shit happens. I'll keep trying.

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Old 06-26-2016, 12:23 AM   #951
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

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I find that 2 files are statistically insufficient to predetermine placements. Said 2 files can only test so much of a person's skill set.
Yeah actually, I can see the problem here. The files would need to cater to all play styles and skill types as well as contain various patterns. Kinda difficult to determine from just 2 files and I can see multiple complaints arising from it. Scrap that idea :P
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:23 AM   #952
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

As someone who has competed in seven official tournaments (this one included), I have been at the tops of divisions, I have been at the bottoms of divisions, and I have been in the middle of divisions.

8 weeks is a looooong time to improve. I have seen people who were at the bottoms of their respective divisions work their asses off and place top 8. The only people who are kind of boned are those at the bottom of D7, D6 and maaaaybe D5 because that is when the skill level starts getting serious. I will admit that it would be very difficult for a bottom-D6er to fight their way up to the top and nearly impossible for someone in the same position in D7, but chances are that they have participated in a previous OT in a different division and done well.

See: my tournament badges
(and I was kinda hoping to get the D7 badge this time around, but I'm not quite there yet)

If you find yourself stuck in the bottom of a lower division, you really have an opportunity to skillboost somewhat quickly up to the high-D4/low-D5 area if you have the patience and determination. If you find yourself at the bottom of a higher division, you should be motivated for the unique opportunity to play against a new set of players who are mostly better than you, and test your limits by trying to make it to the next round.

If there were to be a split in divisions, it would be at that "serious skill level" point around mid-upper D5 (swallowing up the lower end of D6), at perhaps the level 72-79 range. Another potential area for a split would be at the very upper end of D7 (92+), but there simply aren't enough players up there in the stratosphere to make a D8, even though D8 is already pretty much a thing conceptually.

We choose to stay with our 7-division system because it has worked in the past and individuals have shown the capability to skillboost up full divisions in previous tournaments. You may not see it now, but this particular tournament format where song difficulties are ramped up actually facilitates skillboosting by subjecting people to stepfiles outside their comfort zone, motivating them to try hard to excel instead of, "Round 4 is coming up tomorrow, time to AAA again...", and while the low-end players in each division might struggle to get a good score, if they are willing to put in the effort, they can benefit from the ramped up difficulties as well.

I think all the bickering about divisions themselves needs to stop. There's always room to improve, and if you're unable to do that quickly enough, there's always next year.

Have fun guys, this is supposed to be fun. (And I know most of you are)

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What about if there was 2 files per division released pre-tournament (or perhaps on another engine OR the previous years tournament files) that decided whether you are DXA or DXB?
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I find that 2 files are statistically insufficient to predetermine placements. Said 2 files can only test so much of a person's skill set.
Also, that's a sandbagger's wet dream.
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:28 AM   #953
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

i definitely do like the harder song to prevent AAA or die idea
problem is that i'm having a hell of a time trying to derust and i don't think i'll ever be better than low d5 lol
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:29 AM   #954
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

I definitely know the feels of the official...... Wish I could place top 8 at least once ;P Gonna try hard lol

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Old 06-26-2016, 12:37 AM   #955
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

And I forgot to mention, unfortunately there have to be hard lines separating the divisions which will always lead to people being at the top and people being at the bottom. It cannot be avoided. Even if there were 14 divisions, there would still be complaints. Considering a D5A/B situation, let's say D5A is 72-79, someone at the level 72 mark is going to get pummeled by the players at the 79 mark, and we are not going to have a hundred-division tournament.

Larger divisions allow cutoffs to be a lot less harsh, allowing those who are at the lower end and want to improve the opportunity to do so.
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:46 AM   #956
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:55 AM   #957
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

was there really a suggestion for an 8th division

brb killing myself
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:57 AM   #958
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

If you get placed in division 58 and there are 5 other people in it someone is still going to lose in the first round, and the way things look right now there would be complaining about that too.

"Why am I in d58 I haven't played a 58 in like 4 years I should be in 56 because it's way easier for me."

No
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:59 AM   #959
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament - Round 1

the year is 2038. ncaa march madness now has so many rounds of play-in games, they've come to be known as "the regular season"
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Old 06-26-2016, 01:03 AM   #960
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Default Re: 11th Official Tournament

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yo for real though i dunno how you guys put up with the whole division bullshit year after year

if it were up to me i'd just pin a gold star on my chest and call the rest of you losers
sarcasm aside i really don't understand how you guys still put up with this shit

every year it's the same thing you put all this work into creating cutoffs gathering files and placing people and then a bunch of ungrateful shitwits whine about how they didn't draw the biggest longest straw and how life isn't fair and how if the system was more rigged in their favor maybe they'd win too

i've said this every ot since 2008 but the function of a tournament is to produce a winner who given the structure and format of the tournament can be reasonably assumed to be the best among the pool of contestants

it's not to hand out a hundred trophies and shoot off fireworks and fanfare in celebration of everyone pressing the signup button

the fact that you get something even remotely between the two at an incredible expense to the tournament organizers and then still complain about it is just fucking shameful jesus christ

ps. please don't whine about any skillgaps within divisions other than d7, in every other division 8 weeks is enough time for the worst player to close the gap against the best player assuming the best player stagnates in skill
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