Old 12-22-2004, 12:53 AM   #1
psychic25
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Default Another Werewolf Game

I am an avid reader of the Werewolf game, starting with Game 5, and I was considering the possibility of another TWG operating at the same time as the regular one.

My reasons for wanting another game are as follows:

1. There never seems to be enough spots in the game for all the people who want to play to play. People who miss the VERY NARROW sign-up window (I believe it was around 30 minutes this time) have to wait a long time for the next game. * Also, I did notice that some of the people that signed up in the topic were not included in the game. With the addition of a second game, people who want to be in a game have a better chance of being able to play. (I do admit that this is my biggest (and possibly selfish) reason for wanting a second game, since I missed the sign-ups for VI and VII.)

*(Well, it might not be so long, but with 60 hour-days, at least 5 days, that comes to 300 hours at least- that's around 12 days, usually more for extra days. I acknowledge that sometimes days are cut short due to insta-lynch, but a lot of the time, insta-lynches do not happen, and the day runs its full course.)

2. The game seems like it's starting to lose its variety. The people who are playing in the current game (VII) all know each other (well most of them do), both in terms of forum personalities and previous TWG actions, like "When you were a wolf you acted like such and such," and other things like that. Newcomers to the game do not know the idiosyncracies of the top players, and therefore are at a huge disadvantage from the beginning. If there were two games, there would be more opportunities for first-time players to join, which would make for more exciting games- if nobody knows each other, there has to be a lot more communication in order to do well.

3. The level of the game seems to be getting way too high. People playing in this game are using extremely high-level thinking- possibly too high for newcomers to successfully deal with. Now, I'm not saying that all newcomers are totally incompetent (Tps222 in TWG VI was an excellent example of an awesome game played by a newcomer, kudos to him), but that many are. This game is extremely fun, and I do believe that many people want in on it. The high level of the current game makes it extremely hard for people to do well as newcomers. With another game, there would be more newcomers, so many people would be on the same (lower, yes) level, making it a more even game. You may say that the only way to train newcomers up is to put them in a tough situation (namely, play with the hardcore players) but this is a very stressful way to learn the mechanics of the game; people should play with people who are at their own level. Now, I'm not saying that people should be total morons during this "beginner" game- they should play with the same standard of dedication and high-level thinking as if they were in the original TWG.

I want to see how many people would be interested in playing a second TWG, so I could see if there would be enough. If there is enough people, I will gladly take all the hosting responsibilities (unless someone else wants to do it) and see it through until the end.

Basically, if people want to join a new TWG, please post, and if any TWG veterans want to comment, please do so.
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Old 12-22-2004, 08:51 AM   #2
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Default RE: Another Werewolf Game

A very well presented request. I'm sure it'll be considered. GJ.
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:45 AM   #3
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Default RE: Another Werewolf Game

As a long time TWG player, former TWG supporter economist, allow me to tell you why this is aboslutely impossible.

Quote:
1. There never seems to be enough spots in the game for all the people who want to play to play. People who miss the VERY NARROW sign-up window (I believe it was around 30 minutes this time) have to wait a long time for the next game. * Also, I did notice that some of the people that signed up in the topic were not included in the game. With the addition of a second game, people who want to be in a game have a better chance of being able to play. (I do admit that this is my biggest (and possibly selfish) reason for wanting a second game, since I missed the sign-ups for VI and VII.)
The narrow sign up window is to keep the game as exclusive as possible. It's meant to be exclusive and should remain this way. How does this work? Those that really will put effort into the game will wait diligently until the signups are opened. That means staying online at least a half an hour before they unlock the thread. It also pumps up the competition levels. Those who want to play more will try to keep others busy during the sign ups. More effort. This is the sort of thing that really pays off.

Quote:
2. The game seems like it's starting to lose its variety. The people who are playing in the current game (VII) all know each other (well most of them do), both in terms of forum personalities and previous TWG actions, like "When you were a wolf you acted like such and such," and other things like that. Newcomers to the game do not know the idiosyncracies of the top players, and therefore are at a huge disadvantage from the beginning. If there were two games, there would be more opportunities for first-time players to join, which would make for more exciting games- if nobody knows each other, there has to be a lot more communication in order to do well.
Again, just another example of keeping the game exclusive. Of course, losing it's variety is not much to say, really. It's expected. The more it's kept exclusive the fewer people will show up to play. Then the people who play once or twice and don't really enjoy it leave. What's left is the fanatics (Tass). These are the people who are going for challenging games, not games with variety. Because there is less variety the game is now harder. Why? People know every move that's being made and why before hand. This makes planning your moves quite a bit harder than before. Providing a challenging and fun gaming experience is exactly what we're looking for.

Quote:
3. The level of the game seems to be getting way too high. People playing in this game are using extremely high-level thinking- possibly too high for newcomers to successfully deal with. Now, I'm not saying that all newcomers are totally incompetent (Tps222 in TWG VI was an excellent example of an awesome game played by a newcomer, kudos to him), but that many are. This game is extremely fun, and I do believe that many people want in on it. The high level of the current game makes it extremely hard for people to do well as newcomers. With another game, there would be more newcomers, so many people would be on the same (lower, yes) level, making it a more even game. You may say that the only way to train newcomers up is to put them in a tough situation (namely, play with the hardcore players) but this is a very stressful way to learn the mechanics of the game; people should play with people who are at their own level. Now, I'm not saying that people should be total morons during this "beginner" game- they should play with the same standard of dedication and high-level thinking as if they were in the original TWG.
I don't want to be redundant so I'll just direct you to my second paragraph. The fact that the game is more advanced is a good sign. It keeps the morons out and basically cleans out the forums (something I had been complaining about for a while now). Unfortunately, it's existance in the forum also draws attention away from the actual posting, a problem that seems to have been cleared up a tad more than I thought (I still want it moved, LD).

The number one reason why this just can't happen is the manpower. From what I hear, it's hard to run a TWG. It's probably hard to monitor everything that goes on, too. Didn't we have a problem with a certain poster named Malithicus recently? It's one of the problems that could have been solved with more manpower in the administration of the site, but there wasn't enough. I'm not complaining, of course, but I do think that another TWG would just end up in more confusion and a generally crappy game. Why should we bother?

Q
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Old 12-22-2004, 10:01 AM   #4
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Default RE: Another Werewolf Game

well I think the idea could work, and its a good training ground... its like having a JV league for those that want it ... no disrespect meant at all. It would just be a more relaxed game because teh real intense players would be in the main game, so this would allow people to learn the intricacies of the game and to force otherwise quiet players to step up and crete a voice since there won't be a player to do all the talking for them.
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Old 12-22-2004, 10:50 AM   #5
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Default RE: Another Werewolf Game

Running 2 TWG's simultaniously on one site is impossible.

The second game would just be all the same people, because we are all fanatics of the game.

If you say you can't be in the game if you are in the other, you will only have about 6 people sign up.

it's not gonna happen, but kudo's if you wanna try.
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:01 AM   #6
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Default RE: Another Werewolf Game

If TWG is meant to be so exclusive and has such a small number of players, doesn't that mean it shouldn't be spamming up the CT forum and belongs in a Games forum, regardless of the "high level of thought"?
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: RE: Another Werewolf Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdarkness
Running 2 TWG's simultaniously on one site is impossible.

The second game would just be all the same people, because we are all fanatics of the game.

If you say you can't be in the game if you are in the other, you will only have about 6 people sign up.

it's not gonna happen, but kudo's if you wanna try.
I agree entirely with LD.

Also:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DracIV
If TWG is meant to be so exclusive and has such a small number of players, doesn't that mean it shouldn't be spamming up the CT forum and belongs in a Games forum, regardless of the "high level of thought"?
No, because if you put it in the "Game" threads forum, it'd be spammed by the postwhores from the OMG 1 WORD POSTING LOL WE WONT GET IN TRUOBLE thread. Seriously, just look at all the threads in the game forum. They're all for postwhoring.
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:17 AM   #8
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Default RE: Re: RE: Another Werewolf Game

I think it's a great idea. I had the thought myself, but didn't think it would work because too few people. However, more and more people have been wanting to be in TWG, and they haven't been allowed to because they're stupid. I think you should go ahead and make signups and host the game or whatever. Just call it jTWG (Junior TWG) and start at a game one and keep going. Like somebody before me said, it'll be like training grounds for the new players. If somebody screws up in jTWG horribly, then they won't be allowed in the more vigorous TWG. It'll act as a filter so only the best get to play at the top level. It will also keep the game fresh, because new ideas could be tested in the jTWG and if they turn out good then TWG could use them. Really, it's a great idea, and you all need to stop bashing it :P.
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Old 12-22-2004, 12:05 PM   #9
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Default RE: Re: RE: Another Werewolf Game

Game Threads and Critical Thinking are the opposite poles of the forums.

Critical Thinking is for people who put a lot of thought into their posts, which are often more than a paragraph long. Game Threads are for people who click Submit before their brains figure out what they just typed.

In addition, you'll note that none of the so-called "game" threads actually have structured rules, conditions for victory, a referee, and a winner (or winners.) TWG has all of these things, making it a legitimate and respectable game. Ironically, that means that the place it is least suitable is the so-called "forum game" forum.
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Old 12-22-2004, 01:29 PM   #10
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Default RE: Re: RE: Another Werewolf Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah18
well I think the idea could work, and its a good training ground... its like having a JV league for those that want it ... no disrespect meant at all. It would just be a more relaxed game because the real intense players would be in the main game, so this would allow people to learn the intricacies of the game and to force otherwise quiet players to step up and create a voice since there won't be a player to do all the talking for them.
Exactly what I was thinking.

Also, I agree with Q when he says that the games are indeed getting more intense. This intensity is great- it makes the games even more interesting to read, because the players can use preexisting actions against each other- and that's awesome.

However, a new TWG would allow the elite players to have their fun in their own thread while the newbies and the not-so-intense people have fun in THEIR own thread. Also, this would remove some of the clutter from the advanced games. This means that the people who everyone thinks are hindrances (everyone keeps talking about Snapps and tny, for example- not that I've got anything against you two) would not jam up the higher-level game. Rather, they would still get to play, but they wouldn't be able to hamper the better players.

So if the mods give me the go-ahead, I'm going to start a sign up for Junior Werewolf Game I(thanks for the name eb), unless anybody has any real objections against it. Consider this an experiment- if I don't get enough people for this, the idea will be dropped.
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Old 12-22-2004, 02:03 PM   #11
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Default RE: Re: RE: Another Werewolf Game

If you do this, make sure to not allow people in the other game into this one. Otherwise, it'll be all the same people in both games.
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Old 12-22-2004, 02:21 PM   #12
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Default RE: Re: RE: Another Werewolf Game

Well of course. I don't think the hardcore people would really wanna be in this one anyways, no offense.
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Old 12-22-2004, 03:23 PM   #13
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Default RE: Re: RE: Another Werewolf Game

Anybody mind explaining me as to what this Werewolf game thingy actually IS and how it is played out? I've kinda just been glancing at it, not really caring. But, while this is here, I might as well ask.

I think this is probably my most n00b post to date yet... then again, I can still spell right.
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Old 12-22-2004, 03:45 PM   #14
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Default RE: Re: RE: Another Werewolf Game

In TWG there are two teams, humans and werewolves. The game consists of day and night. During the night, the wolves decide which human to kill. During the day, people decide who they think is a wolf and vote them off. The wolves know who the other wolves are and try to trick the humans into voting each other off. The humans must try and find other humans they can trust and work together to kill the wolves. We usually play it so there are 15 people, 3 of which are wolves. There are also special roles:

Seer - every night they pick one person to look at and the moderator tells them if that person is human or wolf
Guardian - every night they pick one person to guard. If the wolves decide to try and kill that person, the kill will be unsuccessful
Psycic - every morning they are told how many wolves remain. In this way they can figure out if the humans have been correct in their voting or not
Master Wolf - this wolf can fool the seer. If the seer chooses to look at the Master Wolf, the moderator informs the seer that he is human (though he is not)
Masons - a group of humans who know each other at the beginning of the game. This helps by starting the game with an alliance

There are others, and not all special roles are used every game, it's up to the moderator. Also, note that days and nights don't relate at all to real life. For example, in TWG5 days were 60 hours long, and Night only lasts as long as it takes all wolves/guardians/night-time people to send in their targets.
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So I've gone completely slack-ass and haven't done any work on creating games. =(

In less-depressing news, I got a job for an online business (which sells non-electronic games, of all things!) which has taught me a lot about marketing online and all that jazz.

So now I'm on Twitter @NoahWright.
And I write the blog for their website.

Plus I do cool programming in-house that you'll never see. =O
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Old 12-22-2004, 04:29 PM   #15
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Default RE: Re: RE: Another Werewolf Game

EDIT: Nevermind, just read the full rules on which and what not. I understand now.
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:15 PM   #16
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I don't know about te "jTWG" thing, that makes people who play it seem- less important.

Perhaps you should allow more people into the TWG games... or perhaps do an Unofficial TWG, I'd like to get in on TWG, I guess I'll watch this time, and see if I can't get in on the next game, meh- it's worth a try, and I'm not a n00b.

I dunno, there are very good points on both sides of the discussion, but I still don't see too much of a reason not to do another one, it could plausabley be easier to run two TWG's if it had it's own sub forum ^_^

Ok, I'm done
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:23 PM   #17
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Well... we'll just run with this and see. And I better see some bloody signups for the official one when it comes up next time....
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:27 PM   #18
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my hope is that this junior one gets off the ground and works well, and then we'll have a TWG with 32 people as has been suggested.
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:10 AM   #19
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For those of you who are stupid or blind-
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...wtopic&t=21746 jTWG Signups.
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