League of Legends

[MinaciousGrace]

Originally Posted by TechnoElite2

So, this thread ran itself into the ground after a couple of 1300 Solo's started acting like they own the place and ignoring the word of the higher ranked, better player. I'mma say this to master, also known as Dalebert.

Stop. Your posts do nothing but serve your observation. Based on what I've read, your observation is ****.

Moving on. Allow me to burst some of your bubbles (And some of others.)

1. Olaf is more desierable and higher tier than Tyrn, Irelia, Xin, and Jax in solo/ranked as far as melee goes, and does a whole lot of work to Teemo compared to every other melee champion in the game.

2. As soon as you bahsed Doran's blade, Mina, I doubted you as anything more than a random casual. My observation was clarified upon seeing your 35-36 record in Solos. Stop talking unless it's bashing Master. It's the only thing you're good at. Same thing with Master, though his argument against the blade at least looks good on paper. Then again, so do women's rights. Speaking of which, I declare Mina's null and void, as she challenged another player to a '1v1 mf mirror match' out of rage. The failure can't be contained in words.

3. That MF build is terrible. This is the body of my argument against it. It. Is. Terrible. It's like AP on Mundo. Beats face if Corki is afk.

Let the flame-responses commence.

you're ****ing retarded too

it was fairly obvious sarcasm when i was bashing on doran's blades herp derp

and i only challenged him to a 1v1 because 1) he says he outlaned ad mf as ap mf and 2) he doesn't have a team

but if you have a team i'll be happy to 5v5 you and run your face into the ground

e: and what are you bro some 1550 player with 600 wins and 580 losses thinking their hot ****

[masterhickle]

I've rarely had to lane AGAINST another MF. It's usually Morde, Vlad, Twitch or some other BS. When I DO lane against an AD MF, I can outlane them, but it's tricky. I always have to adjust myself so if they use Double Up, it won't hit me. I'll rarely auto attack creeps, only run up and drop make it rain (I'll auto attack to last hit them if the other MF isn't close).

Once I have a Blasting Wand, my Make It Rain drops a creep wave (minus a cannon creep if it's there). This is when I begin to outlane them. I push them right into their tower on every wave, and they've got a harder time farming because they have a tower killing the same creeps.


Edit: You only challenged me because I don't have a team? I told you that I could more than likely have a team over the holidays, but you never responded to that. Coincidence?

[TechnoElite2]

Normally I don't grace pups with a response. I'll make it brief.

@Master: I'm quick to dismiss bad builds. That's a bad build. But then again, it wins you all the 1200 games you want it too, so it's obviously good, amirite?

Also, name's Jonas Sterling. I've been playing since 3 months into closed beta, I've written the first comprehensive guide of Nasus and Shen, and I'd probably be top tier if I really cared to play Ranked. In fact, mister Dragun here, that's been reaming your ideas this entire time, and I are on the same 3's team and Solo queue when we can. We probably theorycraft more than you and your friends do in weeks, in one day.

@mina. I think I'm 1550 normal ELO. But then again, I've been 1800 normal, I've been 1200 normal. I also have almost 200 more rating than you in solo queues with about 1/5th the games played. Ain't that a bitch.

You 5v5ing me would be a waste of my time. I'm not above ignoring the request, but it would probably consist of a bunch of top tier stacking and pretending you're good. Which is all I'm getting from you or Master.

TL;DR: u bad.

There we go.

[masterhickle]

Ok, I'm done with all the whining and griping in this thread. I just want to hear WHY that build is bad. No one has yet said why.

My reason for saying it isn't bad? Her W can do massive damage. Malady helps the damage through magic resist reduction and its AP. The damage is boosted by AP, so I opted for Rageblade, as it also gives an AD boost.

The theme of the build at that point seemed to be aspd, so I looked at my options. Nashor's Tooth offered AP, aspd, and Cooldown reduction.

If you're building aspd, Madred's Bloodrazor is a solid choice. The obvious 4% health added to each hit. Aspd, AD, and a little armor.

At this point, I just want to know WHY you say it's bad. That's all I'm looking for, some LoL discussion. I'm done with "lol ur retarded" if everyone else is. Can it go back to discussion? >.>


Edit: Also, my GP build has gone uncommented >.>

[x_Dragun_x]

Originally Posted by masterhickle

I said outPERFORM.

READ.

I did not say outLANE.

Originally Posted by masterhickle

Once I have a Blasting Wand, my Make It Rain drops a creep wave (minus a cannon creep if it's there). THAT IS WHEN I OUTLANE THEM.

:3

1 sec, editing why your build is bad, forgot that i didnt the other night when i was drunk -.-


I used these 2 builds for the calculations.

Masterhickle's MF build
Random DPS MF build(Subtract the black cleaver for the first calculations)


Well lets look at the pro's and cons of your build, over a ad/as build. And then the damage output for the cost of both being roughly the same.

Double Up

AP/AS: 3.75 Second cooldown, For 290 Damage on main target (77.3 DPS)
AD/AS: 5 second cooldown, For 338 Damage on main target (67.6 DPS)

Impure Shots

AP/AS: Can stack faster. Scales slightly with AP (With max stacks of guinsou's, 106 damage per hit, (Including stacking, And being able to hit your target with 0 inturuptions, and casting 0 spells, 180 DPS))
AD/AS: No Ap bonus, (81 DPS)

Make It Rain

AP/AS: 11.25 second CD 512 damage (Max of 45.5 DPS if hit with the full duration)
AD/AS: 15 Second CD 310 damage (Max of 20.5 DPS If hit with full duration)

Bullet Time

AP/AS: 51 Bonus damage per bullet (160 Per Bullet)
AD/AS: 52 Bonus damage per bullet (161 Per Bullet)


So total damage from just spells, Assuming you can make your spell cd not overlap, Against someone with 0 armor 0 magic resist that dosent move

AP/AS : 302.8 DPS from spells only without your ult
AD/AS : 169.1 DPS from spells only without your ult


Including procs from items
AP/AS : 342.8 DPS (+40% Of there max health) From items/spells max DPS
AD/AS : 169.1 DPS (+32% Of there max health) From items/spells max DPS


Raw physical damage

AP/AS : 338 DPS
AD/AS : 685 DPS

Raw physical damage + item procs + perfectly timed spells that they dont move out of
AP/AS : 681 DPS (+40% Of there max health)
AD/AS : 854 DPS (+34% Of there max health)





Overall, These damage builds are roughly the same. But the difference is, Where as with your item build you cap out at that dps, Sure you can grab blue buff/blue pot, But thats all you can do. Where as with a physical build if the game lasts longer, Can get another damage item and bolster the damage you put out. Or a guardian angel and put out a considerable ammount more damage since you dont take as much, And if you do die, you come back and do even more damage Not to mention, that as AD/AS Mf, your auto attacks slow 100% of the time, Where as with AP/AS MF it only slows when you have Impure shots active, Or when you hit them with Double UP. (Since make it rain already slows them more then rylai's would i dont factor that in) Along with 200 extra health on top of what you have.

If it is a long game either

AP/AS : 681 DPS (Without pots/blue buff)
AD/AS : 1088 DPS (Without pots/blue buff)

Or
AP/AS : Effective health 4301 (survivability is 60% of the AD/AS build without g angel proc)
AD/AS : Effective health 6761 + proc from guardian angel

Also, With your AP/AS build, You can cast all your spells 5 times before going oom, without relying on your team to give you mana regen (your 3 spells 1ce every 20 seconds and your ult 1ce)
Where as with AD/AS it is the same, But as i have showed earlier, with your build, you rely pretty heavily on your spells hitting them. Where as with AD/AS you can put out alot more DPS even if you are oom.

[masterhickle]

WAY TO BE DRUNK GUY.
.
.
.
.
.
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Ok, I should edit that post, but I'll fix it here. I can only outlane another MF when I get a Blasting Wand. Until that point, she'll beat me. I can position myself to not get hit by Double Up, but her damage (until my Blasting Wand) vs Minions is much higher.

Also, Jonas, you said you've been around since about 3 months into closed beta. You'll probably know the name Ductape. It might be safe to say he's been around longer than you =P. He's a good friend of mine.

[x_Dragun_x]

And does it matter if i like to drink or not? No that has no concern with you. It just means i like to drink, and post on forums.

Lul k? gj you know someone thats been around for a while, Congratz? want a cookie for being good friends with someone? Im IRL friends with Bahamut-x, Does that give me free reign to say whatever i want? No it dosent. So why bring it up?

[masterhickle]

I should've added the "lol" at the end to indicate sarcasm.

I was just throwing that in there since Duct has been around forever and a day, and it seems that Jonas has as well.

[x_Dragun_x]

Me and jonas have been playing since beta, within the same week we started. But i just finished updating my last post. So check the things i updated

*Edit*
And as far as your GP build goes, Yes its good, But it all depends on how the game is going, and what your facing. If you have seen any champion spotlight on the LoL homepage, you will see that he says something like "I get this and this item, Then depending on how im doing either (Defensive item defensive item) or i go with a (Offensive item defensive item) then a so and so to finish it off.

In other words, Yes your build is good, But if they have a full caster team, your armor wont help you much. A b. vale would be a a better option If you want to post a item build, have variations in it. Like saying, instead of a atmas, a banshe's vail or a thornmail depending on what we need.

[MinaciousGrace]

Originally Posted by TechnoElite2

Normally I don't grace pups with a response. I'll make it brief.

@Master: I'm quick to dismiss bad builds. That's a bad build. But then again, it wins you all the 1200 games you want it too, so it's obviously good, amirite?

Also, name's Jonas Sterling. I've been playing since 3 months into closed beta, I've written the first comprehensive guide of Nasus and Shen, and I'd probably be top tier if I really cared to play Ranked. In fact, mister Dragun here, that's been reaming your ideas this entire time, and I are on the same 3's team and Solo queue when we can. We probably theorycraft more than you and your friends do in weeks, in one day.

@mina. I think I'm 1550 normal ELO. But then again, I've been 1800 normal, I've been 1200 normal. I also have almost 200 more rating than you in solo queues with about 1/5th the games played. Ain't that a bitch.

You 5v5ing me would be a waste of my time. I'm not above ignoring the request, but it would probably consist of a bunch of top tier stacking and pretending you're good. Which is all I'm getting from you or Master.

TL;DR: u bad.

There we go.

checked your profile you've never been above 1500 elo in any form of ranked games. Nice bluff but too bad called you out. oh yea nice k/d in ranked stat br0 get carried more

ps. if you start **** with me you better be prepared to back it up either stop acting like you're good and actually play against me or stfu rofl, bet you don't even have 5 friends who will play with you mr. forum diva

[masterhickle]

Ok, I see your point in the build differences.

Care to give this build a comparison to AD/AS?
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Miss+...6484d0191106b8
I'm expecting the results to be similar, but I'm intrigued all the same.

It's just that, for some reason, I can't play effectively as AD/AS Fortune, but the first time I played AP/AS (using the build I linked above), I did extremely well. Perhaps it was because no one had seen such a build before?

Just went 11/5/9 as AD/AS MF. Went with Youmuu's, Boots of Swiftness, Frozen Mallet, Manamune, Bloodthirster, and a Phantom Dancer in progress (had Zeal). End result of 11/5/9. I was playing at over 200ms latency the entire game, compared to my usual 70-80, so I feel like I could've done better.

[x_Dragun_x]

Bah, makin me do work -.- Sure comparison will be up shortly, And 1 thing you need to change with that build, is either no rod of ages, or no nashor's tooth, but a void staff instead. If they stack MR you would be doing the most damage with your auto attack's :3


Well lets look at the pro's and cons of your build, over a ad/as build. And then the damage output for the cost of both being roughly the same.
AP MF Build
AD/AS MF Build
I set up runes and masteries for maximum dps for both

Double Up

AP: 240 damage (50 DPS)
AD/AS: 378 damage (75 DPS)

Impure Shots While active

AP: 181 DPS (including stack up process)
AD/AS: 72 DPS

Make It Rain

AP: 836 damage, (57 DPS With CD factored in)
AD/AS: 310 damage, (21 DPS With CD factored in)

Bullet Time

AP: 242 Damage per bullet
AD/AS: 183 Damage per bullet


So total damage from just spells, Assuming you can make your spell cd not overlap, Against someone with 0 armor 0 magic resist that dosent move

AP : 288
AD/AS : 168


Including procs from items
AP : (If perfectly timed lich bane) 507
AD/AS : 168


Raw physical damage

AP : 120
AD/AS : 1302

Raw physical damage + item procs + perfectly timed spells that they dont move out of
AP : 627
AD/AS : 1407

Survivability
AP : 5766 Effective health
AD/AS : 5426 Effective Health

Again not max build with physical, With the max physical build, AD/AS would be doing a considerable amount more, Or have a considerable amount more survivability with a gangel blah blah

The thing with AP build, is that it dosent have much sustained DPS, But it has great burst with your impure shots/make it rain/ult,

Totaling up to 649 on 1 target with impure shots/Double up
And a additional 836 on possibly more then 1 target. Not quite sure exactly how many bullets are in bullet time. So cant calc that out.

So besides your ult, thats 1485 damage on 1 target, 836 on more then 1 target in a 2 second span

[x_Dragun_x]

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace

checked your profile you've never been above 1500 elo in any form of ranked games. Nice bluff but too bad called you out. oh yea nice k/d in ranked stat br0 get carried more

ps. if you start **** with me you better be prepared to back it up either stop acting like you're good and actually play against me or stfu rofl, bet you don't even have 5 friends who will play with you mr. forum diva

:3 <3 you mina, But he said in Normal games, he didnt say 1500 in ranked, And we have 6 people irl that we constantly hang out with that we play with. At least in my group, He has 2-3 others that he plays with from time to time in another group of friends he plays with v.v

But, keep in mind to, If you are basing those stats off of LoLbase, Those stats arent right. You have to upload your games in order to have the correct stats on the site. The reason why it shows games in general, is because other people in the games you/him were in, uploaded and updated his stats. and showed some partial stats :3

[masterhickle]

Originally Posted by x_Dragun_x

Bah, makin me do work -.- Sure comparison will be up shortly, And 1 thing you need to change with that build, is either no rod of ages, or no nashor's tooth, but a void staff instead. If they stack MR you would be doing the most damage with your auto attack's :3

If anything, I'd drop the Nashor's Tooth. Rod of Ages gives me a nice health buffer =X.



Of course, I alter my build as necessary. Even though I don't post it, I've got back-up items in my mind as the game calls for them - Banshee's Veil always is, no matter what champ I'm playing. I'll hesitate a little longer on GP than other champs to get Banshee's because of his W.

Edit: Yes, I'm making you do work lol. I want to see how close I can get a non-AD/AS MF build to compare to AD/AS. Also, since I tend to not read patch notes for ANY game I play, I just noticed the changes to Doran's Blade. Since the damage got upped, I might actually use it...

[x_Dragun_x]

Well on GP a bvale is extremely annoying, Since it ignore's just flat magic damage, like a primordial burst, Disintegrate, Spear shot etc instead of just cleansing out of a stun/slow etc

[MinaciousGrace]

no i just looked up his profile directly and my normal elo is probably above 2k rofl

[x_Dragun_x]

Well on GP a bvale is extremely annoying, Since it ignore's just flat magic damage, like a primordial burst, Disintegrate, Spear shot etc instead of just cleansing out of a stun/slow etc

*Edit*

Mina, Do you have over 500% w/l ratio? If so then yes you are 2k, If not then you dont. If you constantly win against low players, assuming you are 1800, and they are in the 1300 bracket, you would only get 1-2 points per game, not the normal 16-42. And if you lose a game, you would lose 42 every If thats how it worked, assuming i would get 20 points per game average, i would be at about 2500 elo -.-



Oh and when page 14 hits,

Originally Posted by The5thmoon

you should probably get some publishing rights

**Edit 2**
Posted a reply for masterhickle on his MF full ap build, Post number 253
Thats all for now :3

[MinaciousGrace]

find me a way to check normal elo and i'll tell you, and my w/l for normals is above 85%

[x_Dragun_x]

upload your logs on lolbase.net, you cant find your total, But since i last used lolbase it only uploaded games up to the last patch

[x_Dragun_x]

OOOk. So since its a new page, and i like to write posts long enough to be in a book apparently (<3 you moony) might as well make another post about what i said earlier about "playing korean style"



Facts about stuff

If you died mid game, Wouldent it be nice if you gained 100 gold while dead? and about 100 while you walked back to lane? Well with this "Korean" build, Thats how things go =p




Now to "Go Korean" is basicly this. Get 5 gold per 10 items. and work off of that. You will see this in alot of korean games, Because it works very well, And it gets you what you need for cheep early game.

I prefer this build on tanks, and sometimes ap champions. It also works amazingly well on GP/Tyrnd, since they benefit from it to a extreme ammount.

The reason to "Go korean" is the obvious gold per 10 income. your items+masteries (and if you go for the quint's) is 29 gold per 10. or 174 gold per minute.


Examples

Gallio. With my runes i have 72 magic resist at 18. (Full scaling magic resist runes on red/yellow/blue/quints) and 6 from masteries. So that gives me most all of the magic resist i will need till late game. So i can get quite a few armor items and not worry about how many casters they have. (With only merc treads i have 133 magic resist at 18) I get 3 philosophers stones, and 2 hearts of gold. These items give me about 90 hp5, and 44 MP5, witch enables me to stay in lane as long as i would want, Since 88 hp5 gets me about 250 health between when i full kill a creep wave, till when the next wave comes, And allows my mana to stay at max. Along with 400 bonus health, and about 140 armor.

Malphite, same runes/build about 135 armor and 150 magic resist.


Kenan/vlad/kat/sion

5 gold per 10 kage's picks. An extra 125 ability power along with the amazing gold is always nice to have.

GP/Tyrnd
5 Averice blades. 72% chance to crit without runes/masteries. Nuff said



The advantages of "Going korean"

For tanks, It enables you to get the gold needed to get your tank items, without having to be in lane, attempting to kill creeps, since normally tanks wont be able to last hit as well against a ranged champion, or just a harassing champion. It also allows you to regen most if not all your health between creep waves, So you can be alot more ballsy and spam your spells to your hearts content

Caster champs, Allows you to get the early AP along with a ton of gold that you farm already. Think about killing a extra 7 creeps every creep wave. Wouldent that be nice? Especially if you last hit the 6 already there.

GP/Tyrnd, Parley crits, and auto attack crits at max health to take chunks out of people's health when there not expecting it. Especially with tyrnd, Full health, critting almost every hit, and with his bloodlust spell stacking, Hitting for extra ammounts of damage.



the drawbacks of "Going korean"
As a tank. Some revolve around a sunfires to get last hits/damage. If your tank dosent have many damaging ability's, Or ability's that you need other items to benefit from. your kind of left behind in that sense.






Numbers and the sort


Now the gold per 10 numbers to back up this arguement. And why it is a effective build

The sort
When i go korean on a tank, I start with 2 Faerie Charm's and 2 health pots. I get these because it allows me to get starting on the build for the philosophers stones. Get my first philosophers stone, and level 1 boots, then go back to lane till i have enough for either 2 more philosophers stones, or full boots + 1 stone. Then stay in lane till i can get either full boots/3rd stone, and a ruby crystal, Or 3rd philosopher stone, and ruby crystal. Then i dont back till i can get my full 1st and 2nd heart of gold.


Numbers

Now the reason stacking of gold per 10 items works, is that, For every gold per 10 item you get, it takes about 3-4 minutes to get the gold back after selling it. So if you buy a p stone for 800, sell back for 580, it takes about 3 and a half minutes to break even. So as if you didnt buy it at all, just held onto the gold. But for every few minutes after that point, its pure profit.

If you have 5 gold per 5 items, After about 7-9 Minutes of time, You aquired enough gold to "Break even" with those 5 items you have bought. And that is excluding the ammount of gold you earned from them while building up to get your 5th one

Normally i back as soon as i can get my 5th gold per 5 item. That way i can get the max benefit from the items.

It generally takes about 5-10 minutes to buy my first full tank item. You dont want to sell your item any earlier because then it would just be a waste :3

With 5 gold per 10 items, if you held onto all 5 for 8 minutes, thats 1200 extra gold that you aquired soly from the items.
Sell 1 and so you have 4 left, Wait 8 minutes, and get your next item, thats a extra 960 gold soly from the items
and continue the process.

When i was playing games as malphite/gallio i was generally earning about 18-20k gold a game that lasts 45 minutes. Even if i dont have very many kills/assists, The gold per 5 carried me to ge my items so i could get those kills/assists. And if you happen to be doing very well, You can get your full build even earlier then what i said.


If you said TL;DR, Read this


Find yourself a korean friend
Dosent matter if he has ever herd/played this game before,
Point to the screen
Tell him to teach you how to play
And thats my guide simplified