Old 09-10-2019, 04:52 PM   #841
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

the scumtell with the cop softing is what I was referring to, but specifically in the context of Zenith's claim

there have been at least two games where I nailed somebody dropping PR softs and not doing anything after someone claimed that role. HNH very clearly was softing cop. The fact that Zenith claimed cop and nobody else (HNH included) is bringing up the HNH cop softs indicates to me that some people (HNH included) were trying to sweep that under the rug. This is something I realized this phase. Indheart is the only person who so much as talked about his posts.

and HNH not being here reinforces that idea of "plausible deniability" when it comes to having to face reckoning for that.

You make references to meta, I don't know his. But barring some actual real-life shit the odds of him actually being the cop and not reporting at least your check are lower than him not wanting to attract attention to himself and/or giving his partners room to bus him to infinity.

I'm not Zenith but I'm pretty sure you're thinking three levels deeper than he has been this entire game. Not gonna speak for him but even if you're "pretty damn sure" HNH is softing, a less confident player would still perform the seer just to make absolutely sure. And if Zenith is actually using his brain he'd realize that "this level of certainty" matters even more in the context of MYLO.
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:53 PM   #842
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

I really doubt svaz is cop, and because of that they are pretty much comfirmed wolf in my mind.
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:55 PM   #843
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

Some of this is assuming that HNH is deliberately not interacting with the thread, but that's not even necessary, since his partners simply have to either cover for him or let him rot and gain town points by bussing him
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:58 PM   #844
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

Idk Im flipping from DBP more town then InD because I dont think you can vote zenith here no matter what. Unless a counterclaim is made.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:02 PM   #845
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

It's not that I don't see where you're coming from, but the amount of tinfoil you need to assert that Zenith fakeclaimed cop, and then faked a red check on the real cop KNOWING that HNH was gonna be inactive AND ALSO knowing that he was the real cop (both circumstances being necessary to get away with a fakeclaim!) is... a lot of tinfoil compared to the Occam's Razor "Zenith is telling the truth"

You could make an argument that Zenith entered this phase ready to die and the thing with HNH was a raw coincidence but that's something you need to sell me on
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:03 PM   #846
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

svaz is not the cop

really i didn't interpret h&h's posts as softs until you mentioned breadcrumbing, because i'm pretty stupid and i haven't been looking for any. my charu read had nothing to do with him softing if he did, though i've wondered afterward whether it was my read that killed him anyway or something

the same rug sweeping happens if he's not a wolf and wolves don't need the softs highlighted, which is what has me worried. i buy that you've caught people dropping softs before, but site activity is really the only way i'd say he's dropped anything, it's not like he's gone on to claim miller
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:11 PM   #847
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

sure but at a certain point we're just talking in circles, or just engaging in WIFOM

none of this is actually verifiable, we're just guessing why certain things are happening the way they are

my inclination atm is to not get stuck in my own mind, and instead invoke Occam's Razor as a guiding heuristic.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:12 PM   #848
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It's not that I don't see where you're coming from, but the amount of tinfoil you need to assert that Zenith fakeclaimed cop, and then faked a red check on the real cop KNOWING that HNH was gonna be inactive AND ALSO knowing that he was the real cop (both circumstances being necessary to get away with a fakeclaim!) is... a lot of tinfoil compared to the Occam's Razor "Zenith is telling the truth"

You could make an argument that Zenith entered this phase ready to die and the thing with HNH was a raw coincidence but that's something you need to sell me on
i'm already doing a little bit of legwork to get to the scenario where zenith is alive today imo - it requires particular wolf actions to have been done n1 for them to choose not to interfere with him at all last night

you'd need some kind of explanation for being alive and having a peek, which he himself only attempted with that UTR post, and i essentially did for him through the night action spec

a wolfteam with zenith on it is trying to find the cop last night anyway, because they need to not kill the cop to protect his claim, and they have a role cop shot to figure it out if they're really lost

fakeclaiming cop in the short term saves zenith from the lynch, fakeclaiming a red on the other cop sets up the perfect claim fight. i don't think it needs anything to do with h&h's presence/non-presence, but if we're really the only two people to see the softs, you understand why i'm wary of letting the day slip by with you kind of shruglynching h&h and us not bringing it to the thread
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:12 PM   #849
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

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the crumbing makes choosing h&h as a peek target pretty poor. say you, reader, are the cop. we're entering lylo. you have multiple potential targets who have a very tractable amount of posts to read in search. you have admitted to appearing UTR to not draw attention:



(although you then make this tone-deaf post, which is kind of hilarious)
and i read that post as "i have been keeping up, just intentionally not posting", which would make me think you would do your homework on who to peek going into lylo

if you're the real cop, is the person softing cop across the table from you not immediately already suspicious? you may as well treat them as outed and look for a partner - not to mention you have the same n1 as h&h appears to be repping, on a now-dead player

and i'm not inclined to buy that the choice of who to peek is not very meaningful with the roleblocker about, because i've been mrrring at mechanics all day and i can imagine you wanting to run through the same kind of possibilities as i have here, realizing there's a risk if the wolves already used their ninja and so you can have an action get through, etc. plus that you've been given a button with no disadvantage to pushing it anyway, and again, it being lylo

i feel like this oughta be at least thought about before potential game end, you know?
I chose H&H for a few reasons, one of them was even before subbing into this game, I had a piqued interest in him because there was a point before subbing that his post progression was really transgressed, and I felt the same way about Star-Crossed until I saw more from the individual (right around EoD). I can't use meta to my advantage because I've only played I think two games with Hate and he was town both times, but some would argue I could use that to further gauge that he's a wolf in this game.

I wouldn't have taken the posts you highlighted as softing, to me, wasn't so likely. DBP is confident that they were actual softs, but if they were they were poorly made imo. Like you are taking what are seemingly scary irl situations as softs for this game; incredibly unlikely that they are meant to be softs.

I have been looking for partners, that's actually what I've been doing lately and my immediate view was towards Xel who flipped town. After that I don't really know where to go without looking back in the first phase for interactions with Psycho, Svaz, and DBP. It seems like nobody does however, and my claim didn't help with that because we're sitting ducks until inactive people start talking.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:25 PM   #850
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

iunno why else you say "ambulance/cops" though, not like "responders" or something, felt forced. maybe it's a french thing

also think it's quite the task to think he has a progression, lol, his reads post appears from the ether and only a few people even gave it notice. something something PRs are wolfy

i definitely didn't have a good impression of me asking him questions and him comnig back just to go "i'll be back again, there are sure things i wanna talk about later though!"
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:27 PM   #851
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

don't get me wrong there is a large part of me that wants to spitelynch him anyway by now

but i feel obligated to entertain that it's not the right thing
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:05 PM   #852
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

every zenith post yesterday pre-shadow dying:

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Hello people, allow me some time to get caught up (only read a bit of this game thus far) and I'll drop some stuff in here when I am. Ask me questions if you need immediate answers to them
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Okay, I'm 7 pages deep and this is a shitfest.
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This is not good reasoning at all. This is OMGUS.


every post yesterday post-shadow dying:

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fwiw it's an action which explicitly means anything in this context. All of your roles perform actions.
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Hello, I need to read real quick and catch up on what you all have been discussing. Been out all day and I'm phoneposting so excuse me
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This is surprisingly analytical and I appreciate the sentiment of explanation but it seems out of place almost?

Did you think he wouldn't understand this?
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This would be a foolish gambit to perform, I'm not even home right now.
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From what I read, Xel is under scepticism

Star-Crossed is unanimously townread? The tone of having heavy influence on the phase is an interesting one but made me,feel like you're town.

Psycho seems non-committal with her recent posts.

InD is analyzing but also not committing
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Kappa jesus Christ, please just pull it together lmao. Being so relunctant EoD is bad
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Hello, I'm the cop and I prefer you don't lynch me right now, thanks.


-why no attempt to drop in a shadow read around when you arrive? would have helped recover info even if you aren't repping it super hard
-reaction to the death's been talked over
-no mention of h&h when you had some speculation on him before coming in, but you do have a thought on star

feels like projecting UTRness should not have prevented you from leaving these observations anywhere before, especially when one of them is your mechanical knowledge
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:10 PM   #853
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

What about this. We vote Svaz, Zenith gets another day to be cop if he is or he dies and we know if he was real cop and vote H&H. I think Svaz has to be wolf at this point if they arnt cop.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:25 PM   #854
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

cold take: svaz is not the godfather

i don't think i want to lynch svaz today though
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:36 PM   #855
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

im going to laugh if between InD and DBP we have godfather and miller.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:43 PM   #856
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

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iunno why else you say "ambulance/cops" though, not like "responders" or something, felt forced. maybe it's a french thing
This is spaghetti

It is such a minute thing to think about I don't comprehend the logic to scrutinize the wording of an irl situation, but it also begs if it was meant to be a soft, why would you make a soft your irl situation? It doesn't make any sense.

I didn't have the time other than to read what I had missed, I had to go to work (and I work overnight, sleep during the day) if you wanted that explanation. The next day, I wasn't home all day.

Star talked and H&H didn't, it's as simple as that. I could actively develop a read or change my previous read on Star while having conversation with them but I could not do the same with H&H.

Kappa, what the fuck is that kind of suggestion?
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:45 PM   #857
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This is spaghetti

It is such a minute thing to think about I don't comprehend the logic to scrutinize the wording of an irl situation, but it also begs if it was meant to be a soft, why would you make a soft your irl situation? It doesn't make any sense.

I didn't have the time other than to read what I had missed, I had to go to work (and I work overnight, sleep during the day) if you wanted that explanation. The next day, I wasn't home all day.

Star talked and H&H didn't, it's as simple as that. I could actively develop a read or change my previous read on Star while having conversation with them but I could not do the same with H&H.

Kappa, what the fuck is that kind of suggestion?
The suggestion of voting svaz is because we need to get a wolf and if we arnt 100% sold on you being cop then Svaz is the next most likly candidate. Idk why that seems so bad.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:50 PM   #858
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This is spaghetti

It is such a minute thing to think about I don't comprehend the logic to scrutinize the wording of an irl situation, but it also begs if it was meant to be a soft, why would you make a soft your irl situation? It doesn't make any sense.

I didn't have the time other than to read what I had missed, I had to go to work (and I work overnight, sleep during the day) if you wanted that explanation. The next day, I wasn't home all day.

Star talked and H&H didn't, it's as simple as that. I could actively develop a read or change my previous read on Star while having conversation with them but I could not do the same with H&H.

Kappa, what the fuck is that kind of suggestion?
people can lie about irl. i can be wrong here i just think it's curious to align cops/cop

okay, let's say i accept the bit about you being busy - but you're saying you had prior h&h and star thoughts, before you subbed in. could dump those. you had the posts right when you showed up the first time where all you do is call omgus on kappa, then you show up right after the instakill, and both of those times are before the run up to eod

i have another mental frame thing goin on gimme a sec im phone
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:50 PM   #859
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

Maybe it also gets svaz out here to defend themselves idk svaz
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:58 PM   #860
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Default Re: TWG 189: Funnygurl VS T-Force Rivalry GAME THREAD

so i once played a game with yeti called psychichunt (she loves to talk about it if you know her). you mainly need to know it's a no-flip, role madness game

i wanna say it was day 3, yeti comes in and right away makes this claim about either the previous day's lynch or the nk, in all caps. it was a fake role action based on a role the witches knew that town didn't have. it was borne out of panic kinda. she needed to save face and that's what took her to endgame

that's the kind of thing i feel when i read the instant claim from zenith today. do mechanics over the whole rationalizing being alive, with something that reshapes how town is thinking about the game

more a feels thing but it's definitely hit me that i'm also skeeved about the stuff around the claim
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