Brandish Headless [73 or 71]

[TC_Halogen]

After a little bit of deliberation (and a few plays of this file), I can't help but feel like this file is a touch overrated. First off, let's observe a few statistics before digging into the actual structure.

This file has been out since December of 2008, and at the rating of 73, it's put up with some decently high FMOs (remember: the Guru area starts at 76). Since that time, there has been 78 AAAs, and top 200 requires 8-0-0-2 or better. While these statistics aren't entirely uncommon for this difficulty, the chart structure doesn't demand some extreme skill or speed.

The song is 110 BPM (yeah, it really is that slow), and the chart does not use any notes faster than 32nds. A large majority of the chart is just 16th streaming with intermittent jumps/jacks to layer the background guitar, but at this speed, it's very tame compared to some other ex-FMO rated charts. Occasionally, the song tosses longer spurts of jumpstreams, but they're very roll-heavy in structure:



There are a few instances of longer streams involving guitar riffs, but most of the patterns are very fluent...


...or are considerably shorter (despite their somewhat trickier patterns):


Let's not neglect any of the faster patterns. There are also some occasional drum fills that force a few bits of jumpstream -- however, the patterns are relatively simplistic in most cases, and at 220 BPM, shouldn't pose a huge difficulty boost for any real reason.

There's a tiny little one-handed bit in the beginning here, but the patterns in the slightly longer blips are more than manageable:


Split jumping, but the patterns after the split jumps are basic scaling, so there's no big issue here:


Nothing too hard in this one; most of the patterns go in one direction:


The toughest pattern of the bunch in my opinion, but only because it switches directions in the roll into a stream-heavy guitar solo. Paying attention to the tail end of this pattern will guide you into and out of it no issue.


The drum fills listed above repeat themselves multiple times and aren't necessary to mention repeatedly.

[bmah]

Thread approved.

[stavie33]

I think it's definitely a 73, those split jump parts you mention are horribly icky and require speed, control, and put lots of one hand pressure. The file is also somewhat long making it annoying to AAA. If something as simple and straightforward as Aim Burst is 73 this is definitely 73.

[TC_Halogen]

Well, they definitely require control - I'll say that much. Going into a split jump and doing a roll isn't the easiest thing to do at higher speeds -- however, those 32nds are only the equivalent to 220 BPM 16ths, which isn't horribly fast for files in this range.

Comparing to another file in the general area - Famicom Selecta pushes tons of little blips here or there, which also has short little one-handed spurts (something like 43[12]34), a few short anchors (1343[12]), and many deviations of split-handed patterns too. While the patterns are shorter (typically 5-7 notes), the song is 30 BPM faster (comparing the speed BH's 32nds to FS's 16ths), and Famicom also shares a large amount of jumps that are 15 BPM faster (8ths to BH's 16ths). Famicom is a 72, though.

I want to see what others think about this thread before just giving it up though -- if others think that it should stay a 73, I won't be too upset because it's not like it's a blatantly obvious difficulty difference; it's only two points. :)

[dragonmegaXX]

In my opinion Famicom and Aim Burst are both easier than Brandish. Like stavie said Aim Burst is extremely straightforward in most of it's patterns, and doesnt really throw any surprises at you. The only real requirements are that you can jumpstream and do a couple of mini jacks.

With Famicom, sure it's fast and dense, but most of the patterns are easily done. I think it would have a LOT more AAA's if those 2 fast rolls werent there, but other than that Famicom is pretty simple.

Brandish requires a wide range of skills, from fast streaming, jacks, strings of connected jumps, etc. My main problem with Brandish though, is that there are a lot of sections that I can see people getting major mindblocks on. Hell, I got mindblocks on the first few measures at one point. I'd say 73 is good.

[Wayward Vagabond]

i actually find brandish to be on par with most of the other 73s

[Hakulyte]

I agree on 71 after checking levelranks and comparing charts. You need some good consistency/skill variety to keep up with the file, but since the bpm is so low, I don't see any reason to keep it this high.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by dragonmegaXX

In my opinion Famicom and Aim Burst are both easier than Brandish. Like stavie said Aim Burst is extremely straightforward in most of it's patterns, and doesnt really throw any surprises at you. The only real requirements are that you can jumpstream and do a couple of mini jacks.

With Famicom, sure it's fast and dense, but most of the patterns are easily done. I think it would have a LOT more AAA's if those 2 fast rolls werent there, but other than that Famicom is pretty simple.

Brandish requires a wide range of skills, from fast streaming, jacks, strings of connected jumps, etc. My main problem with Brandish though, is that there are a lot of sections that I can see people getting major mindblocks on. Hell, I got mindblocks on the first few measures at one point. I'd say 73 is good.

Aim Burst requires nearly all skills too -- you're neglecting the mini-jacking and rolling that comes between the streams, plus some of the jumpstreams actually have 16ths sandwiched between 8th note jumps, which is pretty high density. It also has a much higher NPS in its most dense areas, because when it picks up, it picks up with huge streams and jumpstreams that go in and out from 4ths and 8ths (or 3/16th) jumps.

I can understand Famicom feeling considerably easier because of how short the patterns are, though - no argument there.

[One Winged Angel]

I may have been slightly biased when I originally gave this a 73 -- I remember getting horrible mindblocks on the third and second to last patterns AJ posted in the OP. Also for whatever reason, I always thought Brandish was 115bpm (which would equate to 230bpm streaming), so knowing that it really isn't as fast as I'd always thought it would kinda knocks this out of 73 territory to me now.

Mindblocks aside, I still find it more difficult than everything in the current group of 71s, but I can see why it could fit in there. More opinions would be nice.

[Arbliterator]

Originally Posted by stavie33

I think it's definitely a 73, those split jump parts you mention are horribly icky and require speed, control, and put lots of one hand pressure. The file is also somewhat long making it annoying to AAA. If something as simple and straightforward as Aim Burst is 73 this is definitely 73.

I'd definitely have to agree with this so 73 for me as well.

[dragonmegaXX]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Aim Burst requires nearly all skills too -- you're neglecting the mini-jacking and rolling that comes between the streams, plus some of the jumpstreams actually have 16ths sandwiched between 8th note jumps, which is pretty high density. It also has a much higher NPS in its most dense areas, because when it picks up, it picks up with huge streams and jumpstreams that go in and out from 4ths and 8ths (or 3/16th) jumps.

I can understand Famicom feeling considerably easier because of how short the patterns are, though - no argument there.

Aim burst is a couple of mini jacks. They really arent that hard. Also aim burst is only 191bpm jumpstream, which isnt very fast compared to a lot of things at that level(at least compared to my files JS, which isnt as dense, but is 200bpm and is only a 68). Also those rolls are super easy to jumptrill, and take almost no skill at all.

[TC_Halogen]

It seems like there's opinions for both sides of the argument, but more are weighing down on 73 (and both sides offer good points).

How about levelling it out at 72? Rob thought that this was a 72 when I was thanking bmah in a Skype chat for approving this thread, so obviously it could fit there, lol

[igotrhythm]

I'm thinking 72 as well, split the difference. The one pattern that's really kicking my ass is near the start of the last long guitar riff stream, around 1600 combo.

While it's the same speed as Determination and I think Heavenly Spores, the major issue with AAAing this is one of control when the stream gets wonky, not to mention that at this speed you're going to see the occasional 3-framer in the longer streams. Still, the large amount of straight stream means that Aim Burst is a lot easier to fall behind on. Anyone that's slipped up in Vs Boss Battle and proceeded to rack up 3 goods or more while they try to recover from it knows exactly what I mean by this.

The final issue is one of length: 3:12 and 2044 arrows means that a high degree of concentration is required to do well--in this regard, it's very comparable to Aim Burst's 3:06 and 2085 arrows. The main difference between the two is in the density chart. While they both peak at 20 nps, Aim Burst has long 14 nps sections, occasional 32nd rolls and an Air-like section featuring plenty of repeated gallops that are easy to mess up.

As Brandish Headless features none of the extra bells and whistles that Aim Burst flaunts and is generally less dense, I'm going to say 72.

[Wayward Vagabond]

im ok with it being a 72. while i still find it harder than the average 72 i have no complaints

[stavie33]

I still feel it's clearly a cut above 72's. Don't tell me it's slow, it's not like the other files like Famicom where the 16ths are practically bursts because they are only 3-4 notes. Brandish the 32nds are short stream for most parts with horrible patterns that lead to mind block. It's 220 BPM stream with uncomfortable patterns, and it switches hands too so it tests both right and left. The file is also 3 minutes long with plenty of parts to mess up, Aim Burst has maybe 4 jump gluts in the whole file, that's not too many and they are nearly the exact same, the 32nds are easy jumptrills, and the mini jacks shouldn't even be taken into account, there easy, short, and there are very, very few of them. Brandish the whole file just doesn't stop being brutal. It has jacks, it has anchors, it has uncomfortable 220BPM jumpstream (the 32nds at 110BPM). The only 72 that might be around the same difficulty is Obscene amount of Steam, other than that I can't think of a 72 that compares. Brandish is also a file known to give mindblocks, it's given me mindblocks, Rob mindblocks, and plenty of other people I know. That's still something to consider.

[krunkykai22]

Okay I wanted to put a little input into this conversation :)

Let's look at the other level 73's there are:

Aim Burst
Bloodmeat (Heavy)
Caprice
Chaosmaid
Final Fantasy Last Battle Festival
Jasmine (Camelrape remix)
Mahou no Oshigoto
Otaku Speedvibe (ONI)
Overdrive
Piano Etude (Demon Fire)
Pitch Black (FFR Edit)
Runny Mornings (SGX Mix)
Since 1983
Spoils

With that list being said I have color coordinated in my PERSONAL opinion which ones are harder and easy and are comparable to Brandish Headless.

Green = Equivalent
Red = Harder
Blue = Easier


Pitch Black and Mahou I haven't colored because I don't remember them too much. But I have to say that Brandish really does fit in pretty well with the 73's. If you think about it Caprice is the easiest of the 73's if you can look passed the BNS. Bloodmeat's BPM is all the makes it hard along with the trills. Since 1983 is harder yes, BUT it's not entirely THAT much harder other then the fact 24th streaming is open to random goods being acquired.

IF anything, I would put Brandish as a 72 MERELY because it would fit in with songs like Gaussian Blur/Famicom Selecta/Sonata Qui. If you think about Brandish the length along with those repeated 32nd roll/jumps does make for a more difficult outro which in turn would boost the difficulty slightly. I think with this style of difficulty it's directly comparable to PANTS for that matter. IF it wasn't for that constant repetitiveness at the ending jumpstream patterns in PANTS it would merely be a high 11. (hate to say it but it's not THAT hard. Of course you need and need...ME is all around harder IMO then PATNS.)

I can see it though as a beginning 73 OR beginning 72 it fits around those 2 in both ways. So mainly whatever is voted would be fine, but definitely not lowered to a 71 imo.

[One Winged Angel]

Alex brings up an interesting point. Although it's difficult to rate a file while taking into account how easily the player can be prone to mindblocking certain patterns, I think it's worth looking at.

Looking at krunky's list, I do have to say I associate BH's difficulty more so with that group of songs over the 72s, even though the file's so slow. I guess I just find the patterns 'ickier' than others do? I don't want that to be my argument for keeping it there though. Personally would be fine with either 72 or 73 at this point, but I think Alex feels very strongly about keeping it at 73.

If there's an overwhelming response for 72, we'll bump it down. But if most of you are indiffered to either 72 or 73, BH will probably stay where it is, as Alex is pretty set on 73. As of now, I think there's an almost equal mix between 'bump down to 72', '72 or 73', and 'keep it at 73'. We'll see what others have to say over the next few days before deciding what to do.

[dragonmegaXX]

73 is good.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by stavie33

I still feel it's clearly a cut above 72's. Don't tell me it's slow, it's not like the other files like Famicom where the 16ths are practically bursts because they are only 3-4 notes. Brandish the 32nds are short stream for most parts with horrible patterns that lead to mind block. It's 220 BPM stream with uncomfortable patterns, and it switches hands too so it tests both right and left. The file is also 3 minutes long with plenty of parts to mess up, Aim Burst has maybe 4 jump gluts in the whole file, that's not too many and they are nearly the exact same, the 32nds are easy jumptrills, and the mini jacks shouldn't even be taken into account, there easy, short, and there are very, very few of them. Brandish the whole file just doesn't stop being brutal. It has jacks, it has anchors, it has uncomfortable 220BPM jumpstream (the 32nds at 110BPM). The only 72 that might be around the same difficulty is Obscene amount of Steam, other than that I can't think of a 72 that compares. Brandish is also a file known to give mindblocks, it's given me mindblocks, Rob mindblocks, and plenty of other people I know. That's still something to consider.

I don't like the "don't tell me it's slow" attitude, as it's overly brash over a difference of two points.

As far as what you say about Aim Burst, you're intentionally neglecting the jacks in difficulty when they actually force two-frame intervals occasionally. Consider the speed that you have to hit those jacks to hit those as two amazings, just for reference. There might not be many, but they are relatively fast at 191 BPM.

Second off, you're sitting there saying that there's "not many jump-gluts" in Aim Burst (and being that there's none at all), I'm going to just assume really dense areas. First off -- Brandish's longest jumpstream (jumpstream being a sequence of notes that has at least one set of 8th note jumps over two beats since we're comparing normal quarter note jumpstreams from Aim Burst) is 13 notes (plus the larger but relatively smooth 32nd stream that follows the guitar riff, so 13+47 = 60 notes for longest stream). Granted, this is 220 BPM, but Aim Burst has a much rougher feel because it has huge stream with jumps actually coming in the MIDDLE of the stream. Because the jumps are in the middle of the stream, you are much more likely to split the jumps trying to hold the constant pace -- also, the first stream in Aim Burst is 256 consecutive notes, and that's counting jumps as singles just to give you an idea how much long the stream is. That stream also tails into 32nds, two notes after a [13], which can cause massive splitting. There's also a bit of one-handed galloping in Aim Burst, which requires a lot of control too. EDIT: also, at 191 BPM, there are a TON of frame discrepancies in the 16th streams.

The most that Brandish has in terms of split-heavy patterns are the five note [24]321[24] [24]321[24] -- yes, they are split heavy, but unlike most split heavy patterns, you're actually guided into and out of them with a basic backward scale/roll.

The likelihood of a file giving you bad habits really shouldn't be taken into account for difficulty in my opinion, but whatever. I have mindblocks on Xanthystramua and I can't beat 3-0-0-0 on it when it's an 85, but I have AAAs up to 90 in difficulty. I'm not complaining about the difficulty of that file, though.

EDIT: also, I'll make it clear that I've thrown away the initial 71, and I'm also willing to level with 73 if people can actually provide information (or until the thread gets locked) but until then, I'm going to fight for this to be lowered.

[krunkykai22]

I understand my post wasn't necessarily beneficial as it was merely opinionated, however I do believe that Brandish Headless DOES have the potential to be where it is at. If I had access to do what you did for the screenshots in your OP, AJ I would more then gladly compare most parts in BH to those in the green highlighted areas, but seeing as I don't unless I go and play the songs and hopefully get a good SS of them, I have to suffice with that.

But, the only thing I will say is I will be convinced to lower it to a 72 but that's about it. Otherwise, leave it where it is.