Rain [YMCK] 86 or 87

[jprox445]

To me rain [YMCK] feels like a 87.

My reasons are:
Fast streams like the ones in Almost there and Magical b-bit tour.
Super fast trills Like the songs mentioned above.
And the jump glut at the ending of the song demands speed and stamina to nail it.

I've played quite a few 86's and this feels nothing like them at all.

[One Winged Angel]

This is one of those files that feels substantially harder than what the rating reflects for almost any non-D6 player. Sort of like how Jamais Vu might play around the same difficulty of Death Piano to most D1-D5 players, despite the fact that it's much more manageable to PA that file than DP once you've secured the speed and control required to do so.

The 32nd streams in this file even out to 256bpm 16ths iirc, ever so slightly slower than the streams in Reality/ERv2/Saddest, and arguably, with more comfortable patterns. The main reason Rain is rated 86 at the moment is due to both the length of the file and the trill section in the middle. Lots of trills with some gross 48th roll transitions between trills can make PA a nightmare. However, there are absolutely no one handed trills, and at this bpm the trills are more than manageable for upper-mid and top tier players (this section plays like a slightly longer and faster Mermaid Island, which evens out to 240bpm 16th trills). Almost There stream caps out at 301bpm 16ths, a whopping 45bpm difference, and contains much more dickish patterns than Rain, including a plethora of anchored minijacks and other assorted one handed bs. 8bit Tour's difficulty is concentrated solely in the trillstream, which features several one handed trills at 282bpm 16ths, also significantly faster than Rain. The one handed trills alone in this section auto-bumps this file to a high 80. If Rain were to contain any, I'd be for the bump. But kommi was nice. The jumpglut section at the end of the file isn't high FGO material.

Rain's one of those do-or-don't kinds of files. Once you reach the speed and control required to PA the 32nd trills reliably, it really isn't anywhere near as difficult as PA'ing the wtfbursts in grind2, the anchored 32nd jumpstreambursts in Grist, or the retardedly awkward ending in Scrap Syndrome, all 87s, and doesn't even come close to the kinds of things encountered in 88+ files.

Should stay at 86 imo.

[jprox445]

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

Should stay at 86 imo.

ya i was having second thought about it after you were going to approve it...

Maybe change the 89 in the title to an 87?

[One Winged Angel]

Done

[bballa48]

87 no doubt. I would honestly say a 88 or 89, but obviously that isn't happening.

Reasoning: The climax (fast trills) is every bit as hard as the climax in every single 87 and 88. Then you throw in the tough 32nd streams (twice) and length, and I fail to see how this can possibly be rated equivalent to Hero Reconsidering... which is short and no where near as intense.

And OWA, I am D6 and find this song hard as hell. I get your argument, but you are also passed that "skill gap" needed for this file. It isn't an 86.

[One Winged Angel]

Btw Hero Reconsidering is being bumped down to 83/84. A bunch of tourney songs are being shifted around. I've sent Jae a list of files to rerate but he hasn't had the time to fix them yet.

It also doesn't help that frame fixes made Hero Reconsidering significantly easier and I only get to rate the files prior to receiving frame treatment, but eh.

In any case, more opinions on Rain would be helpful. Please do not compare it to HR however since that's a blatant misrate. I'd be okay to shift this to 87 (original argument in this thread was for 89, which is what I disagreed with) if more people are for that shift. 88+ though is too much.

[xXOpkillerXx]

I agree with 87; like sean said, it obviously cant have the same difficulty rating as Hero Reconsidering. Also, the lenght doesnt help, as subjective as it may be, I could Never stay calm when I had a AAA run after the trills which are already hard enough to nail because of some transitions (48ths can be a pain...) and it's easy to develop a mindblock on any of the trills (also makes me Rly nervous when I finally AAA a mindblocked part) + you have to deal with the second stream and a small jumpglut part where you can easily get too nervous and hit a boo/good... It also isnt easy to FC because of the 2 Long streams.

EDIT: nvm the Hero Reconsidering thingy then :p

[bballa48]

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

Btw Hero Reconsidering is being bumped down to 83/84. A bunch of tourney songs are being shifted around. I've sent Jae a list of files to rerate but he hasn't had the time to fix them yet.

It also doesn't help that frame fixes made Hero Reconsidering significantly easier and I only get to rate the files prior to receiving frame treatment, but eh.

In any case, more opinions on Rain would be helpful. Please do not compare it to HR however since that's a blatant misrate.

Haha ok good, glad to hear about Hero Reconsidering.

[TC_Halogen]

This file doesn't present much of a challenge compared to any of the 87s, and most of the 86s at least demand something extreme. Here We Go brings VERY heavy 222 BPM jumpstream, Red Wings Over Baron brings extreme length and actually has a few really nasty sections like a 270+ BPM 16th run (the 24th stream guitar solo at the end), and St. Scarhand demands strong jack consistency which inflates the rating because struggling to hit jacks usually results in combo breaking (which FFR is scored by, an important metric as long as we're not mashing!). Even Hero's Reconsidering, which is being dropped, presents some difficult streaming/jumpstreaming. RAIN doesn't present anything that can't otherwise be found in lower difficulties.

- the slower 16th stream really isn't relevant to the difficulty.
- while RAIN does present some aggressive streams, they are entirely unlayered. Smoothness in patterns is a subjective pattern in nature and doesn't turn objective until rigidity can be proven by something like accidental (or forced) mini-jacks. Betrayal is an example of something that has aggressive and rigid streams.
- the trills can be found at a comparable speed in Mermaid Island, albeit a bit shorter than the ones in RAIN.
- the jumpgluts can be found in lower difficulty songs like Across Rooftops (which has triples in its jumpglut!) and Piano Etude Gymnastics (which is faster and not quite as coherent).

In all honesty, the only reason why RAIN is even rated an 86 is because of the length of the file. It requires physical stamina, but also requires good focus as well. Defending a rating of 86.

[EzExZeRo7497]

Rain is NOWHERE close to the speed of Almost There or Magical 8bit Tour, I believe it's only 256 BPM 16ths at its peak, which is around Reality's speed.

Even then, although Rain has longer streams (Around 30 seconds each, almost twice as long as Reality's streams), they're much more fluent compared to Reality's and it doesn't really have any minijacks that would trip you over, they're mostly rollish patterns. (Though I do have trouble with that, but most people tend to not have problems with Rain patterns.)

The trills can be found in songs like Mermaid Island, they're around the same speed although it's a bit shorter compared to Rain. There aren't any jumps in it like what La Campanella does (Although slower, it's an 87) so you don't really need that much control for the trills except for speed control.

The jumpglut isn't all that bad, compared to Across Rooftops, Piano Etude Gymnastics or 12 Bar Bloops. You do get nerves, but chances are you're going to screw up more on Across Rooftops than on Rain because of how difficult its handglut/jumpglut is compared to Rain's.

Like what AJ said, the song requires mostly stamina and focus, if you have the speed already. There aren't any difficulty spikes (Chik Habit wall, RWOB jumptrill, Scarhand jacks) so basically if you have the speed, you should be able to do well on the file. If you don't, chances are that you'll struggle a bit. The reason why it's 86 to begin with is due to its length.

To sum it up:

This is one of those files that feels substantially harder than what the rating reflects for almost any non-D6 player.

I'd say stick to 86.

[Frank Munoz]

Imo this file is ~ to EP in difficulty.
Rains streams are hard and fast as fxck yo'.

I obv do not have the speed for it.
It is difficult to keep track of where I am at and an easy stamina drainer. Can't even relax for a good damn ~1:30 or so cause of constant streams, and if I do it's gameover.

I was thinking 88.
Although... there are still older files that should have their difficulty changed.. which makes it slightly harder to rate files by comparison.

It all still comes down to subject sht. I got +60g on Rain but ~20g on husigi. ya.
...I'm not sdging rain anytime soon.

[TheSaxRunner05]

It doesn't seem as hard at the 87's and is much more straightforward. Not that I can PA them, but it's easier for me to read.

[stavie33]

I really don't think Rain needs to be moved up, and I'll explain why very simply, it's a very straightforward, comfortable file. I can't do the trills but there is no one handed bs and no horrible anchors. The 48ths are a bit annoying but every bit doable. This song is really about stamina and nerves, it's LONG, and the second stream can be obnoxious and the jump glut at the end can eat goods if you are already tired and nervous, but no single pattern in this compares to the 87's. The stream is not any worse than Reality IMO (I actually do better on it but that's bias), but the whole difficulty lies in the trills. I could see 87, but 89, now that's ridiculous talk. The song is a stamina challenge, and length attributes to more room to screw up, but the song itself does not contain any patterns that require the skill or level of play that other 87's require.

I mean LOOK at the 87's. We have La Camp, Grist, Grind 2, Slashmaid. ****ing SLASH MAID. These songs require far more stamina, and have way uglier patterns that require far more skill. Grist is full of not just the jacks which I'd say are as fast as the trills (maybe faster?) in Rain, but also contains many ugly 32nd bursts during jumpstream. Grind 2 has some of the ugliest and most uncomfortable burst patterns in the game IMO which require not only understanding of the file, but insane control, reading ability, and speed to PA. Slashmaid is a stamina nightmare of some of the most brutal jumpstream in the game and the song is LONG, and then you have La Camp, which I would honestly like moved up. La Camp is not JUST long, but full of 24th jacks and mini jacks, jumpstream, and the worst trills in this game, one handed color trills. WITH JUMPS AND POLY"s. ONE HANDED COLOR TRILLS WITH JUMPS AND POLYS. What does Rain have? Straight 256BPM stream with very comfy patterns, and straight trills, not one handed, not with any horrible anchors, just fast trills with some bursts in between. The file is long, but honestly it just doesn't compare to the reading ability, speed, stamina, control, or really anything else the other 87's demand. Length is it's problem and that's just something you have to deal with by playing over and over.


Now on another quick note, does anyone else think in the same sense La Camp and Slashmaid can move up?

[bballa48]

Originally Posted by stavie33

I really don't think Rain needs to be moved up, and I'll explain why very simply, it's a very straightforward, comfortable file. I can't do the trills but there is no one handed bs and no horrible anchors. The 48ths are a bit annoying but every bit doable. This song is really about stamina and nerves, it's LONG, and the second stream can be obnoxious and the jump glut at the end can eat goods if you are already tired and nervous, but no single pattern in this compares to the 87's. The stream is not any worse than Reality IMO (I actually do better on it but that's bias), but the whole difficulty lies in the trills. I could see 87, but 89, now that's ridiculous talk. The song is a stamina challenge, and length attributes to more room to screw up, but the song itself does not contain any patterns that require the skill or level of play that other 87's require.

I mean LOOK at the 87's. We have La Camp, Grist, Grind 2, Slashmaid. ****ing SLASH MAID. These songs require far more stamina, and have way uglier patterns that require far more skill. Grist is full of not just the jacks which I'd say are as fast as the trills (maybe faster?) in Rain, but also contains many ugly 32nd bursts during jumpstream. Grind 2 has some of the ugliest and most uncomfortable burst patterns in the game IMO which require not only understanding of the file, but insane control, reading ability, and speed to PA. Slashmaid is a stamina nightmare of some of the most brutal jumpstream in the game and the song is LONG, and then you have La Camp, which I would honestly like moved up. La Camp is not JUST long, but full of 24th jacks and mini jacks, jumpstream, and the worst trills in this game, one handed color trills. WITH JUMPS AND POLY"s. ONE HANDED COLOR TRILLS WITH JUMPS AND POLYS. What does Rain have? Straight 256BPM stream with very comfy patterns, and straight trills, not one handed, not with any horrible anchors, just fast trills with some bursts in between. The file is long, but honestly it just doesn't compare to the reading ability, speed, stamina, control, or really anything else the other 87's demand. Length is it's problem and that's just something you have to deal with by playing over and over.


Now on another quick note, does anyone else think in the same sense La Camp and Slashmaid can move up?

Damn Stavie you knocked this one out of the park.

After reading your post I agree 100% it is an 86. While I find the trills disgusting (cause of my left hand), they really are pretty straight forward.

And I also agree about Slashmaid and La Camp. Looks like the other thread has Slashmaid moving up... now we just need one for La Camp :)