TWG Game Building Thread

[Rex96]

Originally Posted by YoshL

even with 3 masons claiming a masonry, and 3 wolves out of 5 in a game of 20 counterclaiming, you simply give the gun to someone in that group. best case scenario is that you have 2 masons dead the next morning because a werewolf gets the gun, otherwise you have a mason and werewolf dead.
worst case = 1 confirmed mason, and 5 wolves, with 18 players. you take out 3 townies and the 3 confirmed wolves, and it's a game of 1 confirmed town, 2 wolves, 12 people total, which is worse off for the wolves, and is very heavily town sided
best case, you have 2 confirmed masons, and 4 wolves, with 18 players. you take out 1 of the confirmed masons, 1 town, and 2 more wolves, leaving a game of 14 total - 2 wolves, and 1 confirmed town, which is even more horridly town sided

with 4 werewolves and 16 players
worst case
1 confirmed mason, 1 werewolf, 8 players.
best case
1 confirmed mason, 1 werewolf, 10 players.

with 3 werewolves, 2 masons and 12 players, this is the only one where you may lose all confirmed humans with 2 werewolves, however it's still lol. having a game revolve around this is really dumb

Reading this makes me remember how bad I am at math..

Originally Posted by YoshL

if you wanted to do something like ->if you lynch a townsperson, they will die, but they get a vigi during the night.
if you lynch a wolf, they die and wolves get a nightkill

or something like that. it still leaves 1 kill per phase

although i think this is an already existing setup lol

how about just remove the mason, and the amount of werewolves = 1/4 of players total ?

So there would be only Humans, Werewolves, and the gun.

[YoshL]

i think, in the end it still becomes the same problem as rzr's setup, where there's a potential for all the playing power to rest in like 1 person who inevitably gets town read by everyone, and they end up getting the gun like very single night. while people can still be like "you need to shoot x or y tonight", in the end, it's that one person that would end up making that decision, and the game starts revolving around them

idk

[Rex96]

Originally Posted by YoshL

i think, in the end it still becomes the same problem as rzr's setup, where there's a potential for all the playing power to rest in like 1 person who inevitably gets town read by everyone, and they end up getting the gun like very single night. while people can still be like "you need to shoot x or y tonight", in the end, it's that one person that would end up making that decision, and the game starts revolving around them

idk

then it would be the same thing as I make a Hunter role.. where he is the only can shoot/kill...

Which is not my purpose for making the setup

I'll change the gun mechanism then..

[rzr]

So I had an idea a few nights ago that I know we've tried in various forms, but what'd you guys think about role switching games?

Like a musical chairs type thing - Each phase during twilight the roles are all re-rolled. So say out of 10 players (or more)
D1 - player x gets lynched, flips as a PR
At twilight (before night, but after day) I go back to the RNG machine, plug in the remaining 9 players and remaining 9 roles and re-roll.

No wolves would likely start and finish on the same team. Your role is almost 100% guaranteed to change, so you could go from a human to a wolf all of a sudden, but still have no idea who the previous wolves are, only your current partners.

Thoughts? If it could be arranged I think this would be a blast to play/host.

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by rzr

So I had an idea a few nights ago that I know we've tried in various forms, but what'd you guys think about role switching games?

Like a musical chairs type thing - Each phase during twilight the roles are all re-rolled. So say out of 10 players (or more)
D1 - player x gets lynched, flips as a PR
At twilight (before night, but after day) I go back to the RNG machine, plug in the remaining 9 players and remaining 9 roles and re-roll.

No wolves would likely start and finish on the same team. Your role is almost 100% guaranteed to change, so you could go from a human to a wolf all of a sudden, but still have no idea who the previous wolves are, only your current partners.

Thoughts? If it could be arranged I think this would be a blast to play/host.

Honestly this sounds like Battlestar when YoshL, Roundbox, Lurker, YoshL's friend (can't recall his name) and myself played a game

[rzr]

How well did it work out? I've played/hosted where targets get "bit" and transform into a wolf, and ones where there could be a "cure" for a wolf to convert. But the mechanics are shaky - especially with the ladder.
That's why I think RNG all the way could work. Also considered making the wolves not know who each other are.

[YoshL]

i think the concept is.super cool

i dont think it would work or be fun because its like tf2 team scramble. youll be winning or losing by chance, and scumhunting becomes dumb and stuff

if you had like a points based system based on how well each faction did for a phase that would be interesting, but then the people who die first pretty much always lose so its still no fun

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by YoshL

i think the concept is.super cool

i dont think it would work or be fun because its like tf2 team scramble. youll be winning or losing by chance, and scumhunting becomes dumb and stuff

if you had like a points based system based on how well each faction did for a phase that would be interesting, but then the people who die first pretty much always lose so its still no fun

^ this

When we played we all were into it but it was entirely different from Mafia/TWG because it had a card system in it (not the only reason but this was a huge difference).

Seeing a point based system with this concept would probably work with enough tweaking and I'd be down to check it out and play it because honestly the switching faction mechanic is pretty cool because anything goes

[YoshL]

something closer to bsg would be like

if you nightkill the sleeping wolf, who may or may not jnow that theyre the sleeping wolf, they awaken and become a full fledged wolf

if they get lynched, they get a kamikaze or something

[rzr]

Originally Posted by YoshL

if you had like a points based system based on how well each faction did for a phase that would be interesting, but then the people who die first pretty much always lose so its still no fun

That is an awesome idea, but like you said I would have to balance those that die initially. Hows this sound:

If the alignment you die with (wolf, town) is the team that wins you still gain victory points.
I.E. Manti is lynched d1. Manti is scum
rzr is lynched d2. Rzr is town.
---
---
---
Wolves win!

Manti, having died as scum, would still win (just like a normal game).

As far as points go, I think this would be a decent start to a system:

1. Every day you are alive = 1 point
2. Lynching a successful target = 1 point (wolf convinces town to lynch town, wolf gets point. Town lynches scum, town gets 1 point)
3. Your teams success at end of game = 1 point

I had some other ideas, but I think these 3 point allocations provide a point system that can be applied to dead players. Meaning I would give you a point for a successful lynch target even if you are dead, as long as it fits your alignment upon death

[_Zenith_]

I guess here is a game idea that can be collectively worked on:

12/13 players
-insert rules by host here-
Point system

Game would work normally with no confusing roles that aren't in main setups
If a player dies, they can no longer generate points, but they can still talk. They cannot do anything they would normally be able to do (on their faction) if they were still alive (voting, in particular), which would still push the insta limit lower as players "die off".

1.5 points for each wolf alive per day
0.5 points for each town member alive per day

The game would end as soon as the first team reaches say 25 points or if a faction can no longer generate points.

If this game idea does take off and someone wanted to add a Third Party, then:

5 points for each day a third party survives
2.5 if there are two third party members (masons)
If Cult, 1 point per day that Cult Leader is alive, 0.5 point for subsequent members
Third Parties can win the game on their own by just surviving, ending the game as soon as their faction hits 25 points.

None of the numbers above are concrete in any way shape or form and are subject to change (obviously). Just a rough idea going off from Rzr's point system stuff.

[roundbox]

Musical chairs sounds interesting. There's a game of TWG past that might be worth checking out (Time Travelers, hosted by the old DiscoBobbyPARANOiA).

I should make a BSG themed TWG, that would be great
but I want to make a Phoenix Wright one as well

[rzr]

I like that idea, Zenith. A countdown would create a feasible goal. The point system may need to be altered - and I'm horrible with that shit. Perhaps, if scum can gain 5 points per wolf per living day then having a PR that gained <.5, I dunno. But I will have a version of this for the next sign ups just inc case.

In this case, I think OOT would also be extremely interesting and helpful for the role swapping

[roundbox]

TWG to the Turnabout

Order! Order! Order, I said! There seems to be a new case arriving in my courtroom today. However, the lists for Prosecution and Defense doesn't seem to be coming with it.

TWG to the Turnabout is a semi-open setup. 13 players can join this game.

General Mechanics
Day Start
24-Hour start delay
Cardflipping: ON
OOTC: OFF (Minus factional wolf chat)
Night talking: OFF

Voting Mechanics
Phantoms: ON
KitB: ON
Must Lynch: ON

Roles
All of the greatest lawyers and their witnesses were invited to take on the case of Justin Toeburn. The accused was allegedly responsible for the murder of Molly Mayor, his co-worker. Unfortunately, due to an unrelated incident in the mailroom, court summons requests for witnesses and lawyers were either lost or destroyed. Some, however, made it to their destination.
Only 5 letters made it to their destinations. 2 Attorneys (and affiliates) and 3 Prosecutors (and affiliates) received an invitation to come to court. 8 other letters did arrive, but they were to non-important witnesses. Shame.

2 Attorneys
3 Prosecutors
8 Unimportant witnesses (Vanilla town)

Two of the following attorneys (or affiliates) received a letter of invitation, but we don't know which! Two of the following attorneys will be chosen at random.

Defense Roles
Phoenix Wright - The Truth Seeker: Finding the truth is the ultimate goal for you, Phoenix Wright. Wielding Maya's magatama, you are able to check the alignment of a player every night.

Maya Fey - The Spirit Medium: As a member of the Fey clan, you possess a great talent. As the next successor of the Kurain Channeling Technique, your abilities are almost unbelieveable to many. During night, you may summon one of two spirits to aid you.
Mia Fey:
-The spirit of your late sister, Mia Fey, known as one of the greatest attorneys to live. Her ability is so powerful that channeling her spirit will let you protect any player at night from a conviction (death).
Ms. Miney:
-The spirit of revenge. Ms. Miney will gladly be channeled, but will stain your hands in blood. Channeling Ms. Miney will give you a one-shot conviction (kill) during at night. Afterwards, you will lose the ability to channel Mia and you will be seen as guilty if checked with the magatama.

Miles Edgeworth - The Inheritor: After some reminiscence of your father's last case and revelation of the corrupt nature of the prosecution office, you decided to take footsteps in the path your father chose. At night, you may choose a player to take to the detention center (jail) for questioning. Your target cannot be convicted and cannot attempt to convict another player. Additionally, you may choose to make your target loved (-1 net votes) or hated (+1 net votes). Cannot exist if the prosecution version is rolled.

Trucy Wright - The Magician: It's the amazing Mr. Hat! Can one of the greatest magic tricks of all time save you again? It just may! Once this game, you may place a trap version of Mr. Hat with any player. Any players who attempt to convict (kill) your target will be instead be convicted themselves.

Ema Skye - The Scientist: SCIENCE! Your love for mixing science with justice lets you try out different chemical compounts. Pregame, you may select which chemical set to use. Set A will grant you Watching abilities (choose a target at night to see who visits them). Set B will grant you Tracking abilities (choose a target at night to see who they visit).



Two of the following prosecutors (or affiliates) received a letter of invitation, but we don't know which ones got their letters either! One prosecutor, Winston Payne, has RSVP'd to the case. He is simply a Vanilla Prosecutor. Two of the following prosecutors will be chosen at random.

Manfred von Karma - The Forger: A perfect record. A perfect case. These are the foundations of the von Karmas, and you uphold them to the highest standard. To maintain the perfect case for this new trial, you may forge evidence. During pregame, you may select a non-wolf player. That player will show up as guilty to all checks and visit every night kill scene.

Franziska von Karma - The Lasher: Your ferociousness in court is unmatched. Your enemies leave with welts and scars at the wrath of the prodigious youth of the von Karma clan. Every night, you may select a target to attack with your whip, roleblocking them.

Miles Edgeworth - The Nemesis: After losing your father at a young age, you lost all belief that defense lawyers could be good people. Finding satisfaction in the conviction (death) of attorneys, you will gain voting power for each convicted attorney. You gain .1 (total 1.1) power for the first and 1 (total 2) for the second. Cannot exist if the attorney version is rolled.

Matt Engarde - The Deceiver: Refreshing like a spring breeze. At least, that's what you want everyone to think about you. You are a master wolf until you make the conviction (night kill).

Kristoph Gavin - The Manipulator: A defense attorney gone corrupt, you possess the power to manpiulate others by careful planning. Once in the game, you may call up one of your connections. Your connection will enable your kill to be strongmanned (surpasses roleblock and protection) OR ninjad (unable to be tracked/watched).



Other information
Follows standard action resolution
Wolves must choose which member of the team is conducting the kill



Here are the PM templates:

Welcome, [Player Name], you are an Unimportant Witness. We didn't quite catch your name, but we'll be sure to write it down later if we need you for questioning.
Abilities:Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.
Win condition:You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Phoenix Wright - The Truth Seeker: Finding the truth is the ultimate goal for you, Phoenix Wright.
Abilities:
Wielding Maya's magatama, you are able to check the alignment of a player every night.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Maya Fey - The Spirit Medium: As a member of the Fey clan, you possess a great talent. As the next successor of the Kurain Channeling Technique, your abilities are almost unbelievable to many.
Abilities:
During night, you may summon one of two spirits to aid you.
Mia Fey:
-The spirit of your late sister, Mia Fey, known as one of the greatest attorneys to live. Her ability is so powerful that channeling her spirit will let you protect any player at night from a conviction (death).
Ms. Miney:
-The spirit of revenge. Ms. Miney will gladly be channeled, but will stain your hands in blood. Channeling Ms. Miney will give you a one-shot conviction (kill) during at night. Afterwards, you will lose the ability to channel Mia and you will be seen as guilty if checked with the magatama.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Miles Edgeworth - The Inheritor: After some reminiscence of your father's last case and revelation of the corrupt nature of the prosecution office, you decided to take footsteps in the path your father chose.
Abilities:
At night, you may choose a player to take to the detention center (jail) for questioning. Your target cannot be convicted and cannot attempt to convict another player. Additionally, you may choose to make your target loved (-1 net votes) or hated (+1 net votes).
Cannot exist if the prosecution version is rolled. You are the real deal.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Trucy Wright - The Magician: It's the amazing Mr. Hat! Can one of the greatest magic tricks of all time save you again? It just may!
Abilities:
Once this game, you may place a trap version of Mr. Hat with any player. Any players who attempt to convict (kill) your target will be instead be convicted themselves.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Ema Skye - The Scientist: SCIENCE! Your love for mixing science with justice lets you try out different chemical compounds.
Abilities:
Pregame, you may select which chemical set to use. Set A will grant you Watching abilities (choose a target every night to see who visits them). Set B will grant you Tracking abilities (choose a target every night to see who they visit).
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Winston Payne, a regular ole prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]).
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Manfred von Karma - The Forger:, a prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). A perfect record. A perfect case. These are the foundations of the von Karmas, and you uphold them to the highest standard. To maintain the perfect case for this new trial, you may forge evidence.
Abilities:
During pregame, you may select a non-wolf player. That player will show up as guilty to all checks and visit every night kill scene.
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.

Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Franziska von Karma - The Lasher:, a prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). Your ferociousness in court is unmatched. Your enemies leave with welts and scars at the wrath of the prodigious youth of the von Karma clan.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Every night, you may select a target to attack with your whip, roleblocking them.
Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Miles Edgeworth - The Nemesis:, a prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). After losing your father at a young age, you lost all belief that defense lawyers could be good people.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Finding satisfaction in the conviction (death) of attorneys, you will gain voting power for each convicted attorney. You gain .1 (total 1.1) power for the first and 1 (total 2) for the second.
Cannot exist if the attorney version is rolled. You are the real deal.
Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Matt Engarde - The Deceiver:, a prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). Refreshing like a spring breeze. At least, that's what you want everyone to think about you.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
You are a master wolf until you make the conviction (night kill).
Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Kristoph Gavin - The Manipulator:, a prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). A defense attorney gone corrupt, you possess the power to manpiulate others by careful planning.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Once in the game, you may call up one of your connections. Your connection will enable your kill to be strongmanned (surpasses roleblock and protection) OR ninjad (unable to be tracked/watched).
Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Thoughts?

[thesunfan]

Trucy Wright is OP is the main thing.

Might be cool if the prosecutors know what roles the defense has, it would let them make better decisions pregame but it might be broken idk.

Maya getting red-checked after making a kill doesn't really matter imo. Its not unbalanced or anything, its just that if there's 2 kills in a night, which there likely will be if Maya makes a kill, then its likely that she'll be able to confirm herself just based off of that.

The numbers seem balanced, and I can live with or without the prosecution knowing what roles the defense has, but Trucy really needs to be changed imo, for a few very strong reasons.

[roundbox]

Trucy Wright's ability is only once per game, but I can see its problem of confirming two players. I'll consider alternatives today.
Mayas doc can stay, and I can change her secondary to be a one-shot something else that has no easy confiming ability

[_Zenith_]

I don't see how Trucy is OP in a way nor do I see how it can possibly confirm two people at once.

It can certainly confirm who is town or who is a wolf depending on the cardflip and target, but it can also backfire with a Ms. Miney's ability if they target the hatted player.

Probably can't see it now but if you say there is a possible double confirmation within it then I might need an explanation on it

[thesunfan]

my problem isn't the double confirmation, which I also don't think is very possible, only time you get a double confirmation is if and only if a wolf dies in the night and Maya didn't shoot or isn't present in the game, most of which is probably not within town's realm of knowledge unless Maya/other role was already forced to claim or something.
I mean even then its still \technically\ not a double confirmation because the wolves could've wolfed one another but lol.

My problem is having a role that essentially makes a player only able to die via lynch, which is not a good thing regardless of their alignment.

If they're town, Trucy guarantees the other PR one night in certain scenarios, which is VERY bad for the wolves. Even when used on a vanilla town, if the wolves try and kill that VT, its horrible for the wolves. Lose a nightkill and lose a member. Its a tiny bit better if the kill still goes through but the wolf still dies, but its still pretty bad for the wolves.

I mean yeah its one-shot, its not the most broken thing I've ever seen, but its still really strong imo. Its probably playable when I first wrote up my thoughts about it I didn't know it was one-shot because I'm in 3rd grade and can't read well.

Its also really good for the wolves if used on a wolf, but I guess that's just a win-more kind of role (which I don't like in principle).

Changing Maya's 2nd ability might not be necessary, I'd probably make her a 1-shot medic and 1-shot vigi if I made any changes to her. Again, up to you. She's a bit strong as it stands.

Wolf version of Miles could be changed, his role can be more of a hindrance than a help, especially if it can trigger instas.

Manfred is cool.

Kristoph could maybe be both a strongman and a ninja if the town power roles are kept as they are, but if they're toned back a bit keeping him as he is is probably aite.

[roundbox]

I think the one-shot doc and vigi would be a suitable replacement.

The Trucy doll collapses after the night it's used. Did you think it stayed at that character's door forever?

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by roundbox

I think the one-shot doc and vigi would be a suitable replacement.

The Trucy doll collapses after the night it's used. Did you think it stayed at that character's door forever?

yes I thought it stayed there forever and I also thought you could take it back and use it on someone else cuz im a stupidhead.

its still really strong, though