Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2

[Xiz]

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill

Bootlicker

You're a towel.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by kommisar

I'm all for having people on as a learning experience, but I wouldn't throw them in as main judges. You may think of it as an "elitist" statement but I'd be concerned if half the judges thought 2 minute dumpstream files were the pinnacle of simfile making. To be a judge, one should understand how fun files are made. There is such a thing as an objectively good file and I don't think it should come at the cost of letting lesser quality files in game.

So you think that the people that JX and bmah chose would think that a 2 minute dumpstream file is the pinnacle of simfile making then. Seems like assumptions to me. Also the judgements are done as a team for a reason, if someone who's still new to judging has a rating that's off from the other judges, the other 3 or whatever would outweigh it anyway. Plus none the less we're talking about backups here and yet you guys keep going on about not trusting them as main judges. AlexDest and Dossar were backups for this batch and I'm fairly certain they've both judged as primary before, so what exactly was the issue with passing on to them?

Edit: MarioNintendo also offered to do more than just be supportive if needed, I'm pretty sure he knows how to make a decent file. As well as Jimerax saying he could do about 50% of a group if needed.

Edit 2: I don't really know why I'm bothering with this because it's just going to turn into the same thing it always has. The main point is these are people that our game managers chose to judge and backups are there to ensure things get done on time when a primary can't do it. What's the point of having this system if no one's going to use it?

[Wayward Vagabond]

I watch judge Joe brown and people's court everyday I also have a general idea of how the judicial system works. Therefore I should be allowed to be a supreme court judge

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

I watch judge Joe brown and people's court everyday I also have a general idea of how the judicial system works. Therefore I should be allowed to be a supreme court judge

That doesn't even come close to being the same thing and you know it, plus again our backups for this batch have judged primary batches before.

fix'd

[AlexDest]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

That doesn't even come close to being the same thing and you know it, plus again our backups for this batch have judged enough times as a primary to have the title on their name.

i've only been primary for 2 batches lol

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by AlexDest

i've only been primary for 2 batches lol

You've still been a primary before, which is the point. You've done it.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

That doesn't even come close to being the same thing and you know it, plus again our backups for this batch have judged enough times as a primary to have the title on their name.

Point I was making was that the judging team -is- elitist. The people on the judging staff are -suppose- to be better than everyone else when it comes to making and passing judgement on files that's the point.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

Point I was making was that the judging team -is- elitist. The people on the judging staff are -suppose- to be better than everyone else when it comes to making and passing judgement on files that's the point.

No a select few on the judging team are elitist. But again we've been through this cycle a million times and it never gets anywhere. We need more judges and that's known, so it's going to have to be dealt with that not everyone is going to have your years of simfile making under their belt and they're going to learn and grow on the team. Kinda like a job, you learn through experience.

[Wayward Vagabond]

And like a job there is a chain of command. Before they can judge they need to learn to step and not all that step will move up. I'm not expecting to have all judges needing to match the requirement of 6 years stepping uner Their belt or x amount of files made but to imply that anyone can become a judge and learn as they go is bad

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

And like a job there is a chain of command. Before they can judge they need to learn to step and not all that step will move up. I'm not expecting to have all judges needing to match the requirement of 6 years stepping uner Their belt or x amount of files made but to imply that anyone can become a judge and learn as they go is bad

Where in any of my posts have I talked about just anyone doing it? I'm talking about the people that are on the team that were selected by JX and bmah. I have no idea where you two are getting anything else from. All the people on the team have files in game. MarioNintendo has 18 already.

All I want, just like most of the people here, is a system that runs smoothly so that we don't have notes coming in 4 days late.

[alloyus]

If backup judges aren't given a chance to judge, then they'll never get good at judging. They were chosen as backups to be there when the main judges can't get the job done, having them step in every now and then does not make them a main judge, they're there for emergencies. There's really no problem with letting them judge ONE batch if you really can't get it done, even If you split it with them.

[AlexDest]

Originally Posted by alloyus

If backup judges aren't given a chance to judge, then they'll never get good at judging. They were chosen as backups to be there when the main judges can't get the job done, having them step in every now and then does not make them a main judge, they're there for emergencies. There's really no problem with letting them judge ONE batch if you really can't get it done, even If you split it with them.

Dossar and I chose to be backups. Bmah and/or JX didn't make that decision.

[SKG_Scintill]

Scin 4 judg

[alloyus]

If you're able to be a main judge and decide to be a backup, that's on you. That's not even the point I'm making, I'm elaborating on what Kayla said about how they're picked as backups for a reason, that they're at least good enough to be a backup just in case they're needed.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by alloyus

If you're able to be a main judge and decide to be a backup, that's on you. That's not even the point I'm making, I'm elaborating on what Kayla said about how they're picked as backups for a reason, that they're at least good enough to be a backup just in case they're needed.

Everyone on the judgement team is allowed to primary judge, people chose what they have time for when batches come up. Which is why I keep saying that they wouldn't have chosen people that weren't capable.

[ichliebekase]

Yea how it's decided if you're a primary judge or backup/supportive judge is you let bmah and jx know in the forum if you're going to be available for the entire judging process or not. Everyone has their own choice to be primary or backup. Sometimes people will have real life things going on (such as school) during the judging time, so they will choose to be supportive or backup.

[TC_Halogen]

...really, everyone? alright, dissecting this bit by bit.

Originally Posted by Razor

annnnnnnnnd finished and sent.
avg rating: 6.95

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Patashu

maybe I should judge again HMM

Originally Posted by i love you

likewise

if it means we have more indifferent/impartial judges about their situations, then I'm alright with this, because:

Originally Posted by kommisar

I'm all for having people on as a learning experience, but I wouldn't throw them in as main judges. You may think of it as an "elitist" statement but I'd be concerned if half the judges thought 2 minute dumpstream files were the pinnacle of simfile making. To be a judge, one should understand how fun files are made. There is such a thing as an objectively good file and I don't think it should come at the cost of letting lesser quality files in game.

You should not be leveraging the judgments/judgment team simply because you don't want a judge or a group of judges to have a shot at judging. How are any of the backup judges supposed to get any better if a primary judge is not willing to give up their slot due to a lack of punctuality? I understand the situations at hand, but (as you and others have said) there was plenty of time to get things done and they weren't done due to procrastination. That's a huge problem. Even users, the people we are catering to, are saying so:

Originally Posted by alloyus

If backup judges aren't given a chance to judge, then they'll never get good at judging. They were chosen as backups to be there when the main judges can't get the job done, having them step in every now and then does not make them a main judge, they're there for emergencies. There's really no problem with letting them judge ONE batch if you really can't get it done, even If you split it with them.

As for the whole "lesser quality files", that is an extremely subjective topic. Why? Despite what we see as a quality file, our audience (our players) doesn't always see that as the same way. What good is it if players are sitting there and wondering "what are the judges thinking?" Not to say that the players always have the right idea of what a great simfile is, but they are the ones measuring the fun factor simply because they're the people that will play the file time and time again if they like it.

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

Edit: MarioNintendo also offered to do more than just be supportive if needed, I'm pretty sure he knows how to make a decent file. As well as Jimerax saying he could do about 50% of a group if needed.

^

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

I watch judge Joe brown and people's court everyday I also have a general idea of how the judicial system works. Therefore I should be allowed to be a supreme court judge

I look at simfiles all the time objectively and have a general idea of what fun factor is - therefore I'm a great FFR judge. Just like your analogy mentions, someone might have a "visual" understanding of it but will never understand a technical perspective (court: laws, regulations, things you'd go to school for; FFR judgment: proper rhythms, structure, phrasing/etc, things you'd learn from actually simfiling).

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

And like a job there is a chain of command. Before they can judge they need to learn to step and not all that step will move up. I'm not expecting to have all judges needing to match the requirement of 6 years stepping uner Their belt or x amount of files made but to imply that anyone can become a judge and learn as they go is bad

There isn't a chain of command in the batch system, at ALL. There are multiple kinds of judges but they are filled on a first come/first serve basis -- if a person says that they want to be x judge, they are placed in that spot. The only hierarchy within the system is that there are two head judges (bmah/JX), and then the regular judges. As far as the last note - I only had 3 FFR files in game when I became a judge, and I definitely learned as I go. I don't see too many people really making a fuss at my notes, so I know that I learned correctly.

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

I look at simfiles all the time objectively and have a general idea of what fun factor is - therefore I'm a great FFR judge.

i'm confused, is this a dossar post or a halogen post

[Wayward Vagabond]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

Where in any of my posts have I talked about just anyone doing it? I'm talking about the people that are on the team that were selected by JX and bmah. I have no idea where you two are getting anything else from. All the people on the team have files in game. MarioNintendo has 18 already.

All I want, just like most of the people here, is a system that runs smoothly so that we don't have notes coming in 4 days late.

you implied it.

Originally Posted by alloyus

If backup judges aren't given a chance to judge, then they'll never get good at judging. They were chosen as backups to be there when the main judges can't get the job done, having them step in every now and then does not make them a main judge, they're there for emergencies. There's really no problem with letting them judge ONE batch if you really can't get it done, even If you split it with them.

you judge packs and weekly releases. you dont have to judge batches in order to get judging experience

Originally Posted by alloyus

If you're able to be a main judge and decide to be a backup, that's on you. That's not even the point I'm making, I'm elaborating on what Kayla said about how they're picked as backups for a reason, that they're at least good enough to be a backup just in case they're needed.

originally back ups were suppose to be there for back up only because we had enough primary judges. as time went we lost too many judges to keep that system so now everyone posts that they can do it when jx asks

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

I look at simfiles all the time objectively and have a general idea of what fun factor is - therefore I'm a great FFR judge. Just like your analogy mentions, someone might have a "visual" understanding of it but will never understand a technical perspective (court: laws, regulations, things you'd go to school for; FFR judgment: proper rhythms, structure, phrasing/etc, things you'd learn from actually simfiling).

thanks for proving my point that experience matters

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

There isn't a chain of command in the batch system, at ALL. There are multiple kinds of judges but they are filled on a first come/first serve basis -- if a person says that they want to be x judge, they are placed in that spot. The only hierarchy within the system is that there are two head judges (bmah/JX), and then the regular judges. As far as the last note - I only had 3 FFR files in game when I became a judge, and I definitely learned as I go. I don't see too many people really making a fuss at my notes, so I know that I learned correctly.

chain of command when it comes to critiquing a file is what i meant. you wouldnt put the same value on someone who barely plays the game vs a judge whos been on the team for x 7 years.

amount of files in game does not dictate their qualifications for becoming a judge

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

you implied it.

I said several times the people that JX and bmah chose aka the people that are currently on the team. The people that you don't trust to judge a batch. I don't see how I implied anything else.