Does your gender or sex define you? - Page 2

Rubin0 · 02-6-2011, 11:44 PM

My dog would notice that he no longer had his penis, yes. But he would be about as upset about it as when he got neutered. He didn't understand it, but they were gone, and that was it.

**Reincarnate** · 02-6-2011, 11:47 PM

I feel like it's a huge mistake to treat "society" as somehow separate from the underlying biology. What do you think composes a society?

Rubin0 · 02-6-2011, 11:49 PM

Well I am assuming that we are talking about Western society. If you look at the Middle East, how does covering a woman's face have anything to do with biology? And yet that is their social construct around women. I wouldn't know how to conduct myself as a woman in the ME any more than you men would.

**Reincarnate** · 02-6-2011, 11:50 PM

If I woke up as a woman, it would depend on whether or not my brain was also shifted to that of a woman's. Obviously having a female mind with a female body would be easier to handle than a male mind in a female body.

And yeah, there would be a lot of "book-knowledge" and experience I'd be without regarding stuff like menstruation and whatnot, but that sort of thing is merely transitional learning. The psychological implications would be much more profound IMO.

Rubin0 · 02-6-2011, 11:51 PM

But if you woke up with a "female" mind then you wouldn't be you and doesn't that make this entire thread pointless?

You guys are arguing against all of the social implications (which IMO would be the most difficult to adjust to) and saying that "well, my brain would change too", so that really kind of ends the discussion right there.

**Reincarnate** · 02-6-2011, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubin0

But if you woke up with a "female" mind then you wouldn't be you and doesn't that make this entire thread pointless?

You guys are arguing against all of the social implications (which IMO would be the most difficult to adjust to) and saying that "well, my brain would change too", so that really kind of ends the discussion right there.

I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to hammer home, here.

Rubin0 · 02-7-2011, 12:00 AM

I'm just trying to understand why people on this forum are trying to undermine how complicated gender is. Our socialization begins at birth. You can't just figure it out after being thrust into another gender.

**HoneyMelonCalibrator** · 02-7-2011, 12:02 AM

I'm still confused as to how over 54% of the participants in the polling answered "no" to the question. I can only assume a majority of them didn't fully understand the question. The only two ways I could see someone being content with an unanticipated sex change would be if either:

- the person was suffering from gender identity issues prior to this hypothetical scenario

or if:

- the person's brain chemistry changed with their respective sex.. and even in which case, would take a while to adjust to

I'm curious as to what other reasons would cause so many people to be so sure that they could cope in a situation like this..

Rubin0 · 02-7-2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyMelonCalibrator

I'm still confused as to how over 54% of the participants in the polling answered "no" to the question.

This. Thank you.

Kage06 · 02-7-2011, 11:54 AM

I'd say I'm a straight male, even though I know 100% straight doesn't really exist in my opinion, so feel somewhat weird when people say "are you straight?". Its like yes, but no? Even though I've never had feelings for another guy.
I feel I somewhat have female thinking, but I'm happy being myself (Male)

Of course I'd have a problem if I woke up with female parts, as I've gotten used to being the way I am, and have grown to knowing the ways of myself, being a guy.
I don't think "oh I wish I was a girl"

The thing is, I don't feel comfortable flirting as a guy. It's never something I've really done.
I'd much prefer if girls came up to me than the other way around, as girls are so used to happening. They pretty much choose who they want based on who walks up to them...

That may seem odd, but I just don't like the concept that the guy has to go to the female, and the thought of asking a girl out is automatically telling the girl you are interested in her sexually, and want to end up having sex with her.

I've neither felt comfortable talking about who I would "bang", etc with other guys for this reason even though as a guy, its how I "should be".

It's not really the way I am, even though I do, at least in part have this male suggestion in my system that thats the way I would like to be. I do of course have a sexual system, and I do get feelings of attraction for girls, but its the thought of them thinking something about you, that I do not like somehow, even though I do think the way guys do most of the time.

It's odd. It's like I have 2 heads. What I do, because I'm shy or whatever, and what I would have liked to have done which tends to want to overpower what I do.

I feel that if I listened to the other part, I would of had a relationship by now. Something which at the age of 23, I've never had.

Its definietly the fact I've lived as a guy for so long though, that I wouldn't want to wake up as a female.
I'm as I am, and I've gotten used to the way I am, so to answer the question finally.

Yes, I would have identity issues.

**MetalAtlas** · 02-7-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kage06

The thing is, I don't feel comfortable flirting as a guy. It's never something I've really done.
I'd much prefer if girls came up to me than the other way around, as girls are so used to happening. They pretty much choose who they want based on who walks up to them...

That may seem odd, but I just don't like the concept that the guy has to go to the female, and the thought of asking a girl out is automatically telling the girl you are interested in her sexually, and want to end up having sex with her.

I've neither felt comfortable talking about who I would "bang", etc with other guys for this reason even though as a guy, its how I "should be".

It's not really the way I am, even though I do, at least in part have this male suggestion in my system that thats the way I would like to be. I do of course have a sexual system, and I do get feelings of attraction for girls, but its the thought of them thinking something about you, that I do not like somehow, even though I do think the way guys do most of the time.

That doesnt have anything to do with being 100 percent straight or whatever. It means you're respectful, that you wouldn't have a relationship based off of sex but something that was meaningful. Thats the was a guy should act IMO. talking about you you would 'bang' is kind of vulgar. But being she and lacking confidence it was has to do with most of it. Back to the question at hand though, There is no way to say what is or who is 100 percent gay or straight. It really doesn't matter. The only way someone wouldn;t have identity issues is if they were secluded or didn;t really get involved with themselves or the world. Just, eh ok I'll go with it.

**ScylaX** · 02-8-2011, 10:12 AM

Since you guys summarized most of the problems from gender switch, I wanted to know your opinion on some things :

First :
What if someone who really wanted to switch sex woke up with its "dream" realized (without the hormonal problems that make every situation almost impossible to live) ? Considering he would be euphoric on the moment, do you think the fact he has been since its birth from the other gender will still involve problems on the long term ? Or will it perfectly stick because of the identity problem its previous gender caused to that person ?

Second :
Imagine that an homosexual person that doesn't accept its homosexuality is confronted to this context : Do you think it will be the same as above, aka causing an euphory because of the fact its main problem have been solved ? What about the identity complex then ?

Izzy · 02-8-2011, 10:16 AM

Yes, my identity would be "changed" but that might not necessarily be a long term issue. I don't think I would find it problematic in the long run even if it changes who I am and how I think. I am a rather feminine male in the first place so tipping it over to a masculine female isn't a huge mental change.

Rubin0 · 02-8-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScylaX

Second :
Imagine that an homosexual person that doesn't accept its homosexuality is confronted to this context : Do you think it will be the same as above, aka causing an euphory because of the fact its main problem have been solved ? What about the identity complex then ?

You are assuming that this person considers being gay a problem in the first place. And why do you keep referring to this imaginary gay person as "it"?

**ScylaX** · 02-8-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubin0

You are assuming that this person considers being gay a problem in the first place.

Wasn't exactly was I thought : the person in question couldn't accept its gay identity because of how the people that surrounds it consider the sexual orientation it holds, it would be a relief to that person if one of its main problem has suddenly been vanished. But I don't know if it isn't fixing an identity problem to replace it with another...

Quote:

And why do you keep referring to this imaginary gay person as "it"?

Because I'm talking about someone that can be a guy or a girl, right ? my english teacher explained me that it was how you talked about somebody when its gender wasn't necessarily a man.

**rushyrulz** · 02-8-2011, 11:42 AM

I'd pick "them/they" before I referred to a person as "it"

-random comment from someone who only read the last post-

And you have a bad english teacher. (don't even think about pointing out the irony that I started that sentence with a conjunction x.x)

Rubin0 · 02-8-2011, 11:50 AM

Your English teacher is wrong. A person is never referred to as "it". And it is also improper to use "they", although I use it all the time. You have to pick either male or female when talking about a hypothetical person or use the "he or she" method which can get annoying.

For example, "If this person is gay, then HE should accept HIMSELF."

OR

"If this person is gay, then HE or SHE should accept HIM or HERSELF."

**ScylaX** · 02-8-2011, 11:57 AM

Well, you both could have told that to me by private messaging since it's off-topic but thanks for the rectification anyway.

Rubin0 · 02-8-2011, 12:00 PM

Hey, I'm not judging you. I'm judging your stupid English teacher.

Izzy · 02-8-2011, 12:46 PM

I have found that the official english grammar rules in places such as england are actually different. It could very well be proper to use it that way. I wouldn't.. but I live in the US.

I remember getting into an arguing with someone who said "Rhapsody are awesome" rather than "Rhapsody is awesome". I kept telling her that the band rhapsody isn't a plural so you wouldn't use "are". But apparently in england a group under a single name is considered a plural.

I only mention this because it looks as though scylax lives in france.

View Poll Results: If you woke up and you were the opposite sex, would you have identity issues?
Yes	42	47.19%
No	47	52.81%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

02-6-2011, 11:44 PM	#21
Rubin0 FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 1,276	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? My dog would notice that he no longer had his penis, yes. But he would be about as upset about it as when he got neutered. He didn't understand it, but they were gone, and that was it. __________________ The weight of what I say depends on how you feel.

02-6-2011, 11:47 PM	#22
Reincarnate x'); DROP TABLE FFR;-- Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 6,332	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? I feel like it's a huge mistake to treat "society" as somehow separate from the underlying biology. What do you think composes a society?

02-6-2011, 11:49 PM	#23
Rubin0 FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 1,276	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? Well I am assuming that we are talking about Western society. If you look at the Middle East, how does covering a woman's face have anything to do with biology? And yet that is their social construct around women. I wouldn't know how to conduct myself as a woman in the ME any more than you men would. __________________ The weight of what I say depends on how you feel.

02-6-2011, 11:50 PM	#24
Reincarnate x'); DROP TABLE FFR;-- Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 6,332	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? If I woke up as a woman, it would depend on whether or not my brain was also shifted to that of a woman's. Obviously having a female mind with a female body would be easier to handle than a male mind in a female body. And yeah, there would be a lot of "book-knowledge" and experience I'd be without regarding stuff like menstruation and whatnot, but that sort of thing is merely transitional learning. The psychological implications would be much more profound IMO.

02-6-2011, 11:51 PM	#25
Rubin0 FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 1,276	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? But if you woke up with a "female" mind then you wouldn't be you and doesn't that make this entire thread pointless? You guys are arguing against all of the social implications (which IMO would be the most difficult to adjust to) and saying that "well, my brain would change too", so that really kind of ends the discussion right there. __________________ The weight of what I say depends on how you feel. Last edited by Rubin0; 02-6-2011 at 11:55 PM..

02-7-2011, 12:00 AM	#27
Rubin0 FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 1,276	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? I'm just trying to understand why people on this forum are trying to undermine how complicated gender is. Our socialization begins at birth. You can't just figure it out after being thrust into another gender. __________________ The weight of what I say depends on how you feel.

02-7-2011, 12:02 AM	#28
HoneyMelonCalibrator Arrow Theory™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Illinois Age: 33 Posts: 905	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? I'm still confused as to how over 54% of the participants in the polling answered "no" to the question. I can only assume a majority of them didn't fully understand the question. The only two ways I could see someone being content with an unanticipated sex change would be if either: - the person was suffering from gender identity issues prior to this hypothetical scenario or if: - the person's brain chemistry changed with their respective sex.. and even in which case, would take a while to adjust to I'm curious as to what other reasons would cause so many people to be so sure that they could cope in a situation like this..

02-7-2011, 11:54 AM	#30
Kage06 FFR Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 90	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? I'd say I'm a straight male, even though I know 100% straight doesn't really exist in my opinion, so feel somewhat weird when people say "are you straight?". Its like yes, but no? Even though I've never had feelings for another guy. I feel I somewhat have female thinking, but I'm happy being myself (Male) Of course I'd have a problem if I woke up with female parts, as I've gotten used to being the way I am, and have grown to knowing the ways of myself, being a guy. I don't think "oh I wish I was a girl" The thing is, I don't feel comfortable flirting as a guy. It's never something I've really done. I'd much prefer if girls came up to me than the other way around, as girls are so used to happening. They pretty much choose who they want based on who walks up to them... That may seem odd, but I just don't like the concept that the guy has to go to the female, and the thought of asking a girl out is automatically telling the girl you are interested in her sexually, and want to end up having sex with her. I've neither felt comfortable talking about who I would "bang", etc with other guys for this reason even though as a guy, its how I "should be". It's not really the way I am, even though I do, at least in part have this male suggestion in my system that thats the way I would like to be. I do of course have a sexual system, and I do get feelings of attraction for girls, but its the thought of them thinking something about you, that I do not like somehow, even though I do think the way guys do most of the time. It's odd. It's like I have 2 heads. What I do, because I'm shy or whatever, and what I would have liked to have done which tends to want to overpower what I do. I feel that if I listened to the other part, I would of had a relationship by now. Something which at the age of 23, I've never had. Its definietly the fact I've lived as a guy for so long though, that I wouldn't want to wake up as a female. I'm as I am, and I've gotten used to the way I am, so to answer the question finally. Yes, I would have identity issues.

02-8-2011, 10:12 AM	#32
ScylaX urararararararara Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: FRANCE Age: 29 Posts: 1,044	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? Since you guys summarized most of the problems from gender switch, I wanted to know your opinion on some things : First : What if someone who really wanted to switch sex woke up with its "dream" realized (without the hormonal problems that make every situation almost impossible to live) ? Considering he would be euphoric on the moment, do you think the fact he has been since its birth from the other gender will still involve problems on the long term ? Or will it perfectly stick because of the identity problem its previous gender caused to that person ? Second : Imagine that an homosexual person that doesn't accept its homosexuality is confronted to this context : Do you think it will be the same as above, aka causing an euphory because of the fact its main problem have been solved ? What about the identity complex then ? __________________ Suimega is my present username!!! (b-but feel free to call me scylaax anyway) \| https://suimega.bandcamp.com/

02-8-2011, 10:16 AM	#33
Izzy Snek Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas Age: 33 Posts: 9,192	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? Yes, my identity would be "changed" but that might not necessarily be a long term issue. I don't think I would find it problematic in the long run even if it changes who I am and how I think. I am a rather feminine male in the first place so tipping it over to a masculine female isn't a huge mental change.

02-8-2011, 11:42 AM	#36
rushyrulz Digital Dancing! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 80 billion club, NE Age: 31 Posts: 12,980	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? I'd pick "them/they" before I referred to a person as "it" -random comment from someone who only read the last post- And you have a bad english teacher. (don't even think about pointing out the irony that I started that sentence with a conjunction x.x) __________________ Last edited by rushyrulz; 02-8-2011 at 11:48 AM..

02-8-2011, 11:50 AM	#37
Rubin0 FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 1,276	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? Your English teacher is wrong. A person is never referred to as "it". And it is also improper to use "they", although I use it all the time. You have to pick either male or female when talking about a hypothetical person or use the "he or she" method which can get annoying. For example, "If this person is gay, then HE should accept HIMSELF." OR "If this person is gay, then HE or SHE should accept HIM or HERSELF." __________________ The weight of what I say depends on how you feel. Last edited by Rubin0; 02-8-2011 at 11:57 AM..

02-8-2011, 11:57 AM	#38
ScylaX urararararararara Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: FRANCE Age: 29 Posts: 1,044	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? Well, you both could have told that to me by private messaging since it's off-topic but thanks for the rectification anyway. __________________ Suimega is my present username!!! (b-but feel free to call me scylaax anyway) \| https://suimega.bandcamp.com/

02-8-2011, 12:00 PM	#39
Rubin0 FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 1,276	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? Hey, I'm not judging you. I'm judging your stupid English teacher. __________________ The weight of what I say depends on how you feel.

02-8-2011, 12:46 PM	#40
Izzy Snek Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas Age: 33 Posts: 9,192	Re: Does your gender or sex define you? I have found that the official english grammar rules in places such as england are actually different. It could very well be proper to use it that way. I wouldn't.. but I live in the US. I remember getting into an arguing with someone who said "Rhapsody are awesome" rather than "Rhapsody is awesome". I kept telling her that the band rhapsody isn't a plural so you wouldn't use "are". But apparently in england a group under a single name is considered a plural. I only mention this because it looks as though scylax lives in france. Last edited by Izzy; 02-8-2011 at 12:49 PM..

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