FFR 7th Official Tournament Songs Discussion: Round 7

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

What round was My Favorite Shoes for? I know I'm not that far behind...

[bmah]

It was supposed to be for this round, for Division 2. The file was misrated, and as a result ended up being too easy for the division. The general trend seems to be that nearly all divisions are performing way better than anticipated.

[Raining Nails]

I actually really enjoy System Doctor - and the file is WAY too difficult for me. I can certainly understand some of the earlier complaints as I'm not a strong enough player to make some of the judgments that the D6 players were making, but I actually enjoy all the rolls and random hands etc. Maybe I just enjoy torture.

Gravity Blast is AMAZING. My favorite release of all the tournament songs so far.

[hi19hi19]

System Doctor reminds me of DeVouR.

That's not really a compliment :/
I've noticed that spitfire's patterns flow really well at VC/FMO speeds, but at massively fast BPMs like System Doctor and do i smile, the patterns are not as flowing to hit. Too many 8th anchors on 1 and 4 IMO, but hey that's just me. Not a technically bad file, just not fun...

p.s. personally I hate the "oh fuq here it comes" part of difficulty spikes. File difficulty is rated by the hardest part of the file, and to have all the rest be "filler" sort of seems like a waste. You either have elite players who are bored for 90% of a chart then rage at the 10% hard part, or less experienced players who enjoy 90% of the chart but then never play it again because of some bullshit part they can't even comprehend. Why alienate either group, just make it fairly consistent. There are other ways to make a file memorable besides massive difficulty spikes.

[rebelrunner26]

Originally Posted by Raining Nails

Gravity Blast is AMAZING. My favorite release of all the tournament songs so far.

Though it definitely doesn't work to my strengths, I'll second this. It's just a helluva lot of fun to play.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

p.s. personally I hate the "oh fuq here it comes" part of difficulty spikes. File difficulty is rated by the hardest part of the file, and to have all the rest be "filler" sort of seems like a waste. You either have elite players who are bored for 90% of a chart then rage at the 10% hard part, or less experienced players who enjoy 90% of the chart but then never play it again because of some bullshit part they can't even comprehend. Why alienate either group, just make it fairly consistent. There are other ways to make a file memorable besides massive difficulty spikes.

I do and I don't. I'm not trying to harp on System Doctor anymore and I feel a little bad about how I was acting when the song came out (apologies to _.Spitfire._ and bmah), but I do want to use it to make a great point. System Doctor is frustratingly difficult. Yes, the patterns are incredibly harsh, and nearly impossible to AAA, but that's not the sole reason why the file is hated so much. The reason why the file is so poorly received is because of two big reasons: 1.) prior to the ending, the file is (comparatively) very easy, which means a large majority of players will do very well until the end and will get trashed, which is incredibly discouraging, and 2.) the ending is where the extreme is, and it's incredibly short. Let me delve into the second idea really quick.

Let's compare two ._Spitfire_. files that I feel are on the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to fun factor. do i smile? and System Doctor are very comparable and very different at the same time. One on end, you have two songs that are 250 BPM (albeit, do i smile peaks far above that). On the other, both charts have an entirely different reception. A lot of people like do i smile? -- I've had some pretty terrible luck with it but I still can't help but love it and I always will. do i smile? is INCREDIBLY nerve-wracking. The file builds up higher and higher in difficulty, climaxes at a ridiculous ~21.3 NPS stream with no way around cheating it, and hits the nail on the player's coffin with a 4th note roll that peaks at 2000 BPM (actually: 2100, but for a split second, and I would know because ._Spitfire_. used my sync for the song, lol). After you get through ALL of that, guess what? You have to deal with 45 MORE seconds of nasty pattern transitions, heavy jump usage, occasional 16th bursts of jumps, and a roll wall.

I actually had the opportunity to AAA do i smile, and let me tell you something, when I got past the huge 4th note roll with a perfect score, I thought I was going to have a heart attack. I managed to hang on until 1900 before my computer decided to toss me a boo that wasn't me, and I picked up one good at the end. It was such an amazing feeling, followed by great disappointment.

I've made it to the end of System Doctor with the AAA many times, and even on the runs where I nearly snagged a AAA/1g run, I never felt any nerves. You never know if you're going to hit the hardest parts of the song, so it's hard to feel nervous if you can never be sure that you'll hit that final section. It's very luck-heavy.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Originally Posted by bmah

It was supposed to be for this round, for Division 2. The file was misrated, and as a result ended up being too easy for the division. The general trend seems to be that nearly all divisions are performing way better than anticipated.

[Wayward Vagabond]

so why isnt there a front page post yet

[igotrhythm]

Because Jae's computer is sucking 37 dicks.

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

I do and I don't. I'm not trying to harp on System Doctor anymore and I feel a little bad about how I was acting when the song came out (apologies to _.Spitfire._ and bmah), but I do want to use it to make a great point. System Doctor is frustratingly difficult. Yes, the patterns are incredibly harsh, and nearly impossible to AAA, but that's not the sole reason why the file is hated so much. The reason why the file is so poorly received is because of two big reasons: 1.) prior to the ending, the file is (comparatively) very easy, which means a large majority of players will do very well until the end and will get trashed, which is incredibly discouraging, and 2.) the ending is where the extreme is, and it's incredibly short. Let me delve into the second idea really quick.

Let's compare two ._Spitfire_. files that I feel are on the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to fun factor. do i smile? and System Doctor are very comparable and very different at the same time. One on end, you have two songs that are 250 BPM (albeit, do i smile peaks far above that). On the other, both charts have an entirely different reception. A lot of people like do i smile? -- I've had some pretty terrible luck with it but I still can't help but love it and I always will. do i smile? is INCREDIBLY nerve-wracking. The file builds up higher and higher in difficulty, climaxes at a ridiculous ~21.3 NPS stream with no way around cheating it, and hits the nail on the player's coffin with a 4th note roll that peaks at 2000 BPM (actually: 2100, but for a split second, and I would know because ._Spitfire_. used my sync for the song, lol). After you get through ALL of that, guess what? You have to deal with 45 MORE seconds of nasty pattern transitions, heavy jump usage, occasional 16th bursts of jumps, and a roll wall.

I actually had the opportunity to AAA do i smile, and let me tell you something, when I got past the huge 4th note roll with a perfect score, I thought I was going to have a heart attack. I managed to hang on until 1900 before my computer decided to toss me a boo that wasn't me, and I picked up one good at the end. It was such an amazing feeling, followed by great disappointment.

I've made it to the end of System Doctor with the AAA many times, and even on the runs where I nearly snagged a AAA/1g run, I never felt any nerves. You never know if you're going to hit the hardest parts of the song, so it's hard to feel nervous if you can never be sure that you'll hit that final section. It's very luck-heavy.

The speedcore part of system doctor used to be a lot harder, so I suppose that would've been more equal if it was still that hard but that had to be toned down so whatever. I already explained why I kept the 4th sections as "easy" as they are right now (they're not -that- easy imo, you guys must realise you're top tier players and most players are not). It's mainly because it felt like it has more of a kick to it that way and if I used 8ths (I tried before) it doesn't feel like it's following the song at all. If the feeling of hitting those kicks like a boss didn't come across, then I'm sorry you don't feel that way. That was basically the concept of this file. I suppose I should have toned down the ending a bit too though.
As far as your outbursts, I was surprised at your reaction and I thought it was very rude, but apology accepted. :J

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

System Doctor reminds me of DeVouR.

That's not really a compliment :/
I've noticed that spitfire's patterns flow really well at VC/FMO speeds, but at massively fast BPMs like System Doctor and do i smile, the patterns are not as flowing to hit. Too many 8th anchors on 1 and 4 IMO, but hey that's just me. Not a technically bad file, just not fun...

p.s. personally I hate the "oh fuq here it comes" part of difficulty spikes. File difficulty is rated by the hardest part of the file, and to have all the rest be "filler" sort of seems like a waste. You either have elite players who are bored for 90% of a chart then rage at the 10% hard part, or less experienced players who enjoy 90% of the chart but then never play it again because of some bullshit part they can't even comprehend. Why alienate either group, just make it fairly consistent. There are other ways to make a file memorable besides massive difficulty spikes.

I don't know if I necessarily agree with you. Pandora for example, despite being dense as **** and very fast, flows pretty well imo. Just a matter of what you've trained on I guess.
About the difficulty spikes, I happen to like difficulty spikes most of the time and there are plenty of others too. I don't consider the rest around it a waste. You're looking at it the wrong way imo, since you focus on hating the difficulty spikes rather than enjoy the file as a whole. Example of a really fun chart with a big difficulty spike in the middle is Nemosta's DMYK edit. Despite it being impossible for me to FC the middle part with my current skill, it's fun as ****. Same can be said for a lot of charts like Cetaka's Magical 8bit Tour, yesssss' Almost There, bmah's honki sentai majirenjaa -MAJI eurobeat version- or My Spirit Will Go On.
difficulty spikes keep you on your toes and force you to not let your guard down. I find that they are usually memorable too. If a file is consistently hard it gets boring imo, since all you're doing (granted you're at a good enough skill level) is keeping up the pace that's set throughout the entire file. I find difficulty spikes add some extra spice to a file. I know there are other ways to make files memorable, and I don't always have a difficulty spike (see rage template or ambient angels for example which are much more progressive climax) but I step the way I want to see the song stepped and the way I like it. If a difficulty spike bothers you that much, I think you're playing for the wrong reasons.

Regardless, I know several people who really enjoy System Doctor and they outnumber the people who dislike System Doctor. It's just that the people who don't like it are more vocal about it. I step my files the way I like them myself and if you don't like it, then it's not a file meant for you. :P

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by _.Spitfire._

Regardless, I know several people who really enjoy System Doctor and they outnumber the people who dislike System Doctor. It's just that the people who don't like it are more vocal about it. I step my files the way I like them myself and if you don't like it, then it's not a file meant for you. :P

Hey, that's fine, just offering my opinion.

I'll continue stepping more consistent difficulty like I did in Phi-dentity Crisis, you continue stepping your way... more for everyone

[00Razor00]

ps darkztar, you're gay for not adding the 16ths during the polyrhythm section

feels so empty

[25thhour]

D3 song ending is the only bonk part... I just cant seem to not dump 6 goods...
**** I get an epic run and I lose because I miss...

[DarkZtar]

Originally Posted by 00Razor00

ps darkztar, you're gay for not adding the 16ths during the polyrhythm section

feels so empty

I actually did try adding them in and it just made the whole section feel weird (esp considering that the 16ths are pretty quiet) =<

[icontrolyourworld]

Just bumping this thread to bag on Gravity Blast

The white notes were completely unnecessary, it looks awkward and people need to stop doing this.
The first let's say 3 seconds of the file starts off with very inconsistent patterns, why would you put a 16th gallop this early on? It doesn't flow at all.
Some parts of the file are stepped to easily when you can clearly hear more music, and the parts that are supposed to be hard are stepped badly.
The random triplet patterns are bad, I don't know why but the choice of pattern you used on them sucks. And also they appear very randomly, as in you can put triplets for a lot of other places but you only selected certain areas to put them even though pretty much the same sound you stepped them too is played throughout various other parts of the file.
Again the white notes are bad and if anyone reading this uses them STOP.
The jumpstream thrills (not necessarily jumpthrills but the parts in the jumpstream where you have to thrill and there are jumps) is really gay, never use this pattern again.
The very ending is like 1 mile off sync.

How is it so hard to step a good song with good steps?
How did this file get accepted?

[jprox445]

shit. 2 month bumps?
Gravity blast was fun. but i hated Press Start. That colourful wall was retarded

[Zakvvv666]

Gravity Blast isn't that bad, I actually enjoy the file, and white notes aren't that annoying, they don't have any impact on my enjoyment at all as they aren't used TOO much.

[bmah]

Well I suppose icy isn't familiar with the great white dragon known as...Reshiram.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

I'm bored. These are my thoughts ect not Resh's ect you get the deal.

Quotes from Icy are unbolded.

The white notes were completely unnecessary, it looks awkward and people need to stop doing this.

You may be far to much set into your own way of stepping. I'd have to argue you simply haven't figured out why each white note exists where it does. It's a tactical use of what I would say is emphasis. But think of this: if Resh couldn't explain it, he more than likely wouldn't have done it.

The first let's say 3 seconds of the file starts off with very inconsistent patterns, why would you put a 16th gallop this early on? It doesn't flow at all.

The trills are worse to start off, and also, the gallops make sense. I don't see the issue here other than the later mentioned part where you mention they're kinda random.

Some parts of the file are stepped to easily when you can clearly hear more music, and the parts that are supposed to be hard are stepped badly.

I'm sorry it does not cater to the need to dump jumpstream everywhere. The chart as a whole is fairly constant in difficulty so I don't see why you'd make parts harder than others. The song does not have an overly intense build up of sorts (at least to my ear) to justify a jump of such. At least Pandora has this. Also, who's to say a song has only one interpretation? You can make a case for both your chart and Resh's.

The random triplet patterns are bad, I don't know why but the choice of pattern you used on them sucks. And also they appear very randomly, as in you can put triplets for a lot of other places but you only selected certain areas to put them even though pretty much the same sound you stepped them too is played throughout various other parts of the file.

I gotta give you that they appear randomly, but the patterns are fine. Much better than other charts that came out even recently, which will remain nameless.

Again the white notes are bad and if anyone reading this uses them STOP.

Subjective. I'll keep using them where they fit as I see fit as long as I can justify it. I think it's honestly like I said earlier, using emphasis. In this case we're using color and not layering to emphasize sounds.

The jumpstream thrills (not necessarily jumpthrills but the parts in the jumpstream where you have to thrill and there are jumps) is really gay, never use this pattern again.

I'm sorry but, what's a jumpthrill? If you mean the anchor trills then: Yes because you certainly have never done worse nor seen worse. As much as I dislike the patterns I can't argue that they're out of place. They fit here fairly well.

The very ending is like 1 mile off sync.

I would need this in dream to be sure, but I think the sound he's stepping in particular is off sync. It is just really weird to chart, but it doesn't look nor do I remember it feeling off sync. I actually remember liking the ending.

How is it so hard to step a good song with good steps?

Trust me it's hard, most people can't do it. I'm certainly among them as of right now. But then again, so are/where a lot of the even more popular steppers like say Behanjc (Radio Heads) Dore (DSoK / Bloodmeat / Grocery Jack Plan) Rebirth (MaxX Forever / Club / Blooddrunk [Heavy]) and this list could go on. The idea is to experiment and find a style you like which to be honest, I can't say I think you've tried because all I've ever seen are jumpstream dumps from you. Minus Etude On a Nimbus of course.

How did this file get accepted?

Unlike charts like Undiscovered Shit, the same as others. It was judged like everything else I imagine, though since this was for the same tourney as Undiscovered Shit, I can't say I'm 100% sure without bothering to go check, which you can do on your own time if you really care that much.

Also remember, I'm by no means able to considered a "good" or "great" stepper, but I feel like I understand the chart to a good degree. Like I said though again, these are just me thinking out-loud. Don't take it personally or anything please.

PS: I might be going back on something I said earlier, but eh. Opinions change sometimes.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Reshirams colour usage is more often than not bad and annoying