09-28-2014, 09:09 PM | #1101 | |
lol happy
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
Quote:
I'll add this isn't a good time for sarcastic or flippant remarks.
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Last edited by hi19hi19; 09-28-2014 at 09:09 PM.. |
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09-28-2014, 09:13 PM | #1102 |
ur worst nitemare
Join Date: Jan 2003
Age: 32
Posts: 1,626
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
"i'm kind of amused someone actually managed to read through the lines but i have to call you an idiot to keep up appearances" -corn
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some feathery f**k |
09-28-2014, 09:15 PM | #1103 |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
knock if off, lurk, he has a completely valid point
(response incoming) |
09-28-2014, 09:15 PM | #1104 |
Alphabet Crowd
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Age: 30
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
....So do I get my credit prize?
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09-28-2014, 09:17 PM | #1105 |
ur worst nitemare
Join Date: Jan 2003
Age: 32
Posts: 1,626
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
"i think looking like i was the only person who saw through the flimsiness of this competition and turning it into some kind of huge expose is more important than there being enough staff for the 10th official to make it past round 3" -corn
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some feathery f**k |
09-28-2014, 09:22 PM | #1106 |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
lurk: knock it off -- not going to ask again
with stepocalypse being an event that you have to run on the 1st, I highly suggest you stop trolling hi19 before you become incapable of taking care of it. |
09-28-2014, 09:24 PM | #1107 | |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
Quote:
I will disagree with hi19 for one thing, and that's the elimination structure -- the fact of the matter is that the competition had a large number of entrants (87, to be precise), and the cuts were done evenly based off of the number of people assigned to each rounds. This isn't unfair to do -- in fact, it would be more unfair to cut based off of the number of submitters if the group turnout is higher than another group; as an example, if 4/17 submit of one group submit and 16/17 submit in another, it wouldn't quite be fair to eliminate anyone in the first group if half are supposed to go on in both rounds, because half would be 8 and 8. This somewhat correlates with hi19's point about generally low file quality -- as a moderately to moderately-strict judge in batch judgments, I can very honestly say that I would not have accepted a large majority of the competition's files. As for myself, I had judgment notes for three groups (A, B, and D), but I never felt comfortable in releasing them only because I was actually a competitor in the tournament, and I didn't want anyone to think that I was being a strict judge only because I wanted to rig the results (and I'm always thinking negatively like this). I'm perfectly willing to release my results, regardless of what Xiz/PrawnSkunk tell me. Song choice was definitely weak, but not because the song themselves were bad -- the problem was that the song choices were used in a competition where there were a large amount of submitters for songs that simply didn't have many ways to take them. With that being said, there were some good songs (B, C, E, F-2 [bulldozer]), but there were a large amount of songs that didn't present a lot of potential overall. I wish I would have had more of a say with the song choice, but I was also a competitor in the event as well so I'd definitely be affecting the overall outcome by picking songs. I gave suggestions for two songs, neither of which were used for the tournament, so that's no problem here. |
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09-28-2014, 09:26 PM | #1108 |
tane orb
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
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Last edited by t-rogdor; 09-28-2014 at 09:26 PM.. |
09-28-2014, 09:27 PM | #1109 | |||||
TWG Chaos
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
Oh my. I didn't mean to offend you at all. And I did not mean to come off as smug at all. If I did, I greatly apologize.
I'll try to answer all points that you brought up... What I am saying reflects just me. Not Max, nor the events team. Just me. Yes, the format sucked. Yes, a lot went wrong. Yes, it struggled. At first, this at first was just a fun little tournament by Max & I as a stepping tournament which then evolved into '2nd official stepcon' out of nowhere. It was not my vision, but that's what happened. Quote:
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tl;dr I tried, but it was not up to the standards anyone had for this tournament. This was suppose to be just a fun little event to make everyone happy, but it didn't end up that way at all. I didn't want to give everyone notes because I didn't want people to fight. Max did an amazing job helping out, and thank you to the judges who were on time with notes & ratings despite dealing with everything IRL. Sorry.
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Last edited by Xiz; 09-28-2014 at 09:28 PM.. |
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09-28-2014, 09:33 PM | #1110 |
lol happy
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
Hey, a reasonable response. I really appreciate it.
Shame I had to make a huge and uncharacteristically pissy post in the process, but at least we're here now. Since this tournament is long over, we can do nothing about the past. The tournament was run as it was, and all can do now is thank you for the effort you put forth in doing so. I will gladly and happily move on as long as the future is taken care of. Which means, being aware of what was doing wrong this tournament and learning from it, and more importantly, NOTES. Holy shit if one good thing is to come from all this overdramatic bullshit then at least let everyone who submitted learn from the experience. No amount of "X judge said Y about Z file" drama is worth hiding potential improvement. We always harp on about how stepping is artistic and interpretive and all that- a key part of any artistic endeavor is creative criticism. Give us our feedback
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Last edited by hi19hi19; 09-28-2014 at 09:34 PM.. |
09-28-2014, 09:38 PM | #1111 |
Alphabet Crowd
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
Can I be a judge. I'm good at judging things. Promise.
All in all, there were issues, but it went. I don't really have much to say on it though, but just a cent: People can do horrible on the first rounds. Just think of elimination tournaments. They can suck as long as they don't get eliminated. I do agree there was a large lack of activity, but not much you can do about that. Sure does take quite a bit of time to complete a file if you're competing with real life situations. Also I'm serious about the judge thing. EDIT: also no notes for me I'm good. I know what I did wrong. Yeah. Last edited by dashoe93; 09-28-2014 at 09:39 PM.. |
09-28-2014, 09:42 PM | #1112 |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
I'll release the notes that I did, although the file listings were different than the engine (they might be in order of appearance, I'm not sure). If you check the images showing your place in the given round, they might be tagged...
Lovely City + Wheelpower & Go Unpause the Heat Last edited by TC_Halogen; 09-28-2014 at 09:44 PM.. |
09-28-2014, 09:47 PM | #1113 |
lol happy
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
Also I might as well add
Xiz, PrawnSkunk, AJ, judges, everyone who worked on this competition. Be mindful not to internalize the failings of the event as personal failings. I trust (and you should too) that everyone genuinely wanted the best for this tournament and its participants. The key is to criticize the organizational issues that caused this result and not the people. Stuff like clearly defining goals, making sure to have enough judges, better communication... that's what should be under consideration here. It's easy to want to take personal blame or assign a scapegoat- "this was all my fault" "X person screwed Y task up" but you're not going to get anywhere unless you're being impartial and fair to the people involved. *sigh* I hate making posts like that because it winds up being me having to play the bad guy in order for anything to get done. That's no good. I really just want the site to grow and it's sad for me to see things so many things recently not meeting that goal.
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Last edited by hi19hi19; 09-28-2014 at 09:58 PM.. |
09-28-2014, 09:51 PM | #1114 | |
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,205
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
Quote:
And as a plus, with more eliminations per round, there is less labor involved in the latter rounds as group sizes quickly shrink, which ensures that judgements can be completed timelier, and with more detail to notes for each file which is more important when relative quality becomes more similar. Logically, there is no reason for there to be 3, 2, or 1/10s to get through the second round, and with the structure that was used, there was no strong sense of elevation of quality between the first and second round, which is what the process of elimination should produce. To put it bluntly, having also been a judge for the first two rounds myself, there was a negligible difference of quality between round 1 and 2 which invalidates the reasoning behind there even being rounds in the first place. Last edited by ilikexd; 09-28-2014 at 09:56 PM.. |
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09-28-2014, 09:55 PM | #1115 |
lol happy
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
I honestly think either structure would be acceptable if there was room for growth between rounds.
Part of the reason you saw no change in quality between rounds is because the people submitting had no idea what they did wrong or could have done better anyway, so continued to make the same mistakes. That's an issue with feedback.
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Last edited by hi19hi19; 09-28-2014 at 09:56 PM.. |
09-28-2014, 09:58 PM | #1116 |
ʕ◡ᴥ◡✿ʔ
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
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09-28-2014, 10:07 PM | #1117 | |
FFR's Resident Trashpanda
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
Quote:
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09-28-2014, 10:08 PM | #1118 |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
wanted to make one more post:
i'm going to assume accountability for everything that happened in this event for one reason, and one reason only: Xiz and Prawn wanted this to be a simfile tournament that was held as a smaller event, but the issue that happened is that they proposed the winning simfiles being in game, which is something that steps out of the bounds of what they should reasonably handle since neither of them are simfile judges/Game Management. When the event was being mentioned, it was mentioned in the text body as "FFR Stepcon: II", obviously playing homage to the original event. I personally had no problem with this, but being that it was being brought as an event that wasn't going to be official, I escalated it as such so that the prizes of having your file put directly in game and having two files queue'd wasn't so far out of the way. The best decision that I could have done was simply said that the files could not be queue'd, and that the winning entry would not get into the game -- instead, this could have stood as a user tournament altogether. None of this would have happened as it is now. |
09-28-2014, 10:15 PM | #1119 |
lol happy
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
Jeez. So as this all dies down I'm gathering that I poked some kind of events team hornet's nest.
I would really like people to... simmer down... and remember that everyone involved had the best intentions, if not the best implementations. So please nobody suicide or hate each other forever or anything. Thanks.
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09-28-2014, 10:17 PM | #1120 |
Alphabet Crowd
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Re: 2nd Official FFR StepCon!
hi19hi19, can we be friends.
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