Cheating in Relationships

[richhhhhard]

Divorce rates today are MUCH higher than they were in previous generations.

(50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology in Springfield, Missouri.)

There are many causes for the end of a relationship, but one of the main contributers is often unfaithfulness. My question is, assuming that one marries for love, SHOULD you be upset about a spouse (or boyfriend or girlfriend) being unfaithful?

I would never cheat on someone, I do not see the point. However, if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy? If a physical connection, or the thrill and passion involved, makes that person happier, why would you want to keep them from that? Is there anything more than jealousy involved here?

Exceptions I see to this would be STDs, pregnancy, or loss of affection for the loved one. If handled responsibly, though, and none of these things occur, is there really a problem?

Just a thought, curious what everybody might think.

[Vanilla Mnm]

That's an interesting point of view. I look at it as a dedication type of thing. You want them to be happy, but not with another person. If you get married to them, you are dedicated to each other. Cheating is the complete opposite. Of course there would be a jealousy thing going on. If you *truly* love someone & have them cheat on you, then of course you'd be jealous.

EDIT: Just noticed this was in Critical Thinking (A place I like to avoid lol) I feel like a Critical Thinker now.

[Izzy]

I am kind of confused as to what the question is. Are you asking if someone should be upset for getting cheat on? Because who wouldn't be upset. And if you get cheat on then that person clearly isn't right for you.

[sonofr]

Uhhh, 50% of first marriages?

[super kid]

Girls with boyfriends, the ones i go for.

[korny]

The answer put simply is no.

It is only considered cheating to begin with, because us humans as a majority, have used sex, considered the greatest act of physical satisfaction, as an action that is reserved only between the partners within the marriage. It is then blown out of proportion, almost as if it's some unwritten guideline as to how this subject of “such treachery” should be handled.

So no, besides sheer jealousy and all the aforementioned other exceptions that I can agree with, the real problem of the matter fails to present itself. I try to make it a point, to only interact with other women who share my same, more rational views to avoid the senseless drama that ensues.

[richhhhhard]

Originally Posted by Izzy

I am kind of confused as to what the question is. Are you asking if someone should be upset for getting cheat on? Because who wouldn't be upset. And if you get cheat on then that person clearly isn't right for you.

That is basically what I was asking, and I do not think that I would be upset. I have never been cheated on (that I know of), but my last girlfriend broke up with me for someone else. I was upset for a long time, but after thinking about it a lot it seems like a stupid thing to be upset about. If I really liked her I would have WANTED her to be with who she wanted to be with right? Not to stay with me against her will to avoid hurting me. I see that and unfaithfulness in the same way. If someone I cared about really WANTED to do something would it be selfish for me to keep them from doing it because of my own jealousy?

Oh, and what are you doing in here Korny?
get out of here.

[Izzy]

I guess that would be the case if you cared enough about someone who didn't care that much about you back.

Don't see any reason why you shouldn't at least be a little upset that you didn't get to be with her. But if it wasn't meant to be then you should probably get over it and hope she ends up with someone good for her.

[richhhhhard]

Originally Posted by Izzy

I guess that would be the case if you cared enough about someone who didn't care that much about you back.

I guess that is what it comes down to in the end.

Originally Posted by Izzy

Don't see any reason why you shouldn't at least be a little upset that you didn't get to be with her. But if it wasn't meant to be then you should probably get over it and hope she ends up with someone good for her.

What reason is there to be upset? I guess this is really what the debate boils down to: do you love someone to make yourself happy or to make your lover happy? Because if it is for yourself then I can see why you would be upset. If it is for them then their happiness should be more important than your desires. If that were the case them finding someone "better" would be good news if it made them more happy. The point is that no one ever feels like that because love is not selfless. It seems that love is much more about fulfilling our own pleasures than calmly considering the thoughts or feelings of our significant other.

Oh, and to clarify, me and korny went to high school together. I was not being serious when I told him to leave.

[TK_goelo]

Interesting and theoretically correct point of view, however of course you're gonna feel jealousy, if you were with a girl enough time to be able to say you indeed loved her, you're gonna feel like sh*t when she dumps you.
I'm talking over experience, my year and a half now ex girlfriend dumped me for another guy and man, does it hurts.( It's been a month since that... yeah)
I do agree with your point of view, that if you truly love her/him, you want them to be happy, even if they're with someone else.
And from every point of view, cheating is inmature and means you're not ready for a real relationship.

[Izzy]

If that's you guys in your avatar I'd suggest changing it.

And there is tons of reasons to be upset. I love my girl because that makes her happy and it makes me happy. While you might care about the girl enough to be ok with her perusing her own happiness you can't neglect your own feelings enough to say they don't matter. Both people in a relationship are equal and both of their feelings should be taken into consideration.

So saying that you don't have any reason to be upset is like putting her above you as a human being when honestly she should be a little bit below you since she cheated on you and obviously doesn't care about your feelings.

[richhhhhard]

Originally Posted by TK_goelo

Interesting and theoretically correct point of view, however of course you're gonna feel jealousy, if you were with a girl enough time to be able to say you indeed loved her, you're gonna feel like sh*t when she dumps you.
I'm talking over experience, my year and a half now ex girlfriend dumped me for another guy and man, does it hurts.( It's been a month since that... yeah)
I do agree with your point of view, that if you truly love her/him, you want them to be happy, even if they're with someone else.
And from every point of view, cheating is inmature and means you're not ready for a real relationship.

I am really sorry man, I know that is not a fun situation. But, this applies to you quite a bit then. It took me about a year to get over my first serious girlfriend. That is a year that I wasted feeling sorry for myself for more or less no reason. Looking back, it seems like that was a year that shows how much I was in that relationship for myself and my own needs. How little she actually meant to me. Is that how every relationship is though? I really don't know. I would like to hope that it is not, but as long as jealousy and dishonesty and traits such as that are the driving force of our actions than I do not see how it could be any other way. You cannot control anyone else, or how they feel about you, all you can control is yourself, and how you treat someone. If someone cheats on you that is out of your control, how you react is, however, well within your control. I am not saying it is right or wrong either way, obviously every situation is different.

Oh, and it sucks really bad now I know, but as soon as it gets better it gets WAY better. Don't let it get you too down.

Originally Posted by Izzy

If that's you guys in your avatar I'd suggest changing it.

And there is tons of reasons to be upset. I love my girl because that makes her happy and it makes me happy. While you might care about the girl enough to be ok with her perusing her own happiness you can't neglect your own feelings enough to say they don't matter. Both people in a relationship are equal and both of their feelings should be taken into consideration.

I agree that both people are equal, and that both feelings should be taken into consideration. BUT if your girlfriend did something that most people would consider "wrong" that did not bother you (like lying to you about something that didn't matter, she was lying which is almost never good, but it had no impact on anything, so you don't care that it is wrong) would it really be "wrong?"
If you looked at an act of unfaithfulness in the same light would it be any different?

I guess this is not remaining equal, because you are forced to discard your pride, while she is allowed to do something that is not easy for you to accept. My thoughts were merely that in the long run, what would really change from such a situation? Clearly it changes a lot, it ruins trust, breaks promises, hurts feelings, ect. I just think that in the long run it is more about pride than any of those things.

You seem to have more of a realist view on love than the romantic ideal that love is selflessness. In the end, I don't know if that goes far enough though, I think that all of it is for ourselves. For example, when you said "I love my girl because that makes her happy and it makes me happy." I know it is splitting hairs, but you like her being happy BECAUSE it makes you happy.

Originally Posted by Izzy

So saying that you don't have any reason to be upset is like putting her above you as a human being when honestly she should be a little bit below you since she cheated on you and obviously doesn't care about your feelings.

When I read "saying that you don't have any reason to be upset is like putting her above you as a human being when honestly she should be a little bit below you since..." I honestly thought you were going to say since she is a woman. I thought that was really funny, but I see what you are saying. I don't know if it is fair to say that she doesn't care about your feelings though. Everyone makes mistakes, whether it is getting angry over something stupid, lying about something you shouldn't, or letting passion lead to something that shouldn't happen, I don't see much of a difference. We can strive for perfection all we want but we will never achieve it. I suppose giving up wouldn't exactly be a good idea either though.

I still say it that if you *truly* cared about someone your feelings would not be a factor though, but that you are equals because they should feel the same way about you. That will most likely not ever *truly* happen though, so if you are a person that feels that way for someone I see it as more beneficial to be happy being there for them as much as you can despite any shortcomings that they may have (to an extent obviously).

[Izzy]

I don't really see cheating as something stupid or a little mistake. I find it to be pretty deliberate and easily avoidable if you cared at all about your current relationship.

"woops, I randomly went over to this guys house and we accidentally had sex."

[Necros140606]

the problem resides in the conception of relationships. so far, we've restricted sexuality between the walls of marriage and man-women interaction. i'd say this is a pretty dumb way to expletate this phisiological need. animals in general (don't forget we are too!) develop their relationship habits through evolution, therefore the habit which grants the best survival chances is the one passed on. we humans, on the other hand, do not strive for survival. our choices should be regulated by the logic of major pleasure for the self *AND* the others. a single person relationhip does not satisfy this need, and it is rather a surpassed view.

[korny]

Perhaps you encountered a situation that truly tested the limits of human flaws and human nature. A man, statistically far more susceptible to giving into sexual desires, is at a bar, has a good amount of drinks, meets a woman who he engages in conversation with finds there is great chemistry between them not to mention is inebriated. Leaves the bar without the woman only to find out she lives across the street as she's just exited her vehicle as he has. This man's wife has been away on business for 7 months. I think we all understand how this scenario could unfold and not be considered totally inexcusable no? I don't think it could be considered completely deliberate at all even without a situation of this magnitude. That's a very black and white way of thinking that is hardly fair, but maybe that's just me.

[Izzy]

Well yea, That is pretty extreme. I can only hope that doesn't happen that often.

[Blue Bird]

Originally Posted by richhhhhard

I would never cheat on someone, I do not see the point. However, if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy? If a physical connection, or the thrill and passion involved, makes that person happier, why would you want to keep them from that? Is there anything more than jealousy involved here?

It's not just jealousy - it's the feeling of betrayal. When your partner cheats, they either tell you, or you find out. Either way, you feel betrayed. You trusted that person, and they did something behind your back. Just because you love them, and want them to be happy regardless of what the decide, it doesn't make things better. It doesn't give them the right to do whatever the **** they want, and you have to be OK because you love them. For cheating to apply, we have to assume that both sides are affectionate for each other, and care about each other to an extent. Someone loves you, and by cheating on them you're basically just taking their love and stepping over it. No decent person would do that on purpose. That's why people usually feel bad after they cheat. No matter how much you still love them, it's not just because you're jealous they did it with someone else. In some rare cases, it is understandable. But in a lot of others, I think there's more than just jealousy when it comes to cheating.

And yeah sorry I wrote it all in one huge paragraph. xD Just woke up and didn't know where to break.

[super kid]

If you are jealous, then there is lack of trust. If you trust your partner enough to feel that he/she is going to cheat on you then that's a problem.

It's simple, if you loose affection for your partner try everything you can to try and save the marriage, if not don't stay with them. I mean yes, it does hurt when someone you love just dumped you, but it hurts less if they dumped you before they cheated on you then if they did it after they had cheated and you found out.

[richhhhhard]

So many thoughts.

Originally Posted by Izzy

I don't really see cheating as something stupid or a little mistake. I find it to be pretty deliberate and easily avoidable if you cared at all about your current relationship.

"woops, I randomly went over to this guys house and we accidentally had sex."

I thought that was pretty funny, but either way, that is still the way YOU see it, right?
As korny was saying, alcohol can make you do things that you do not mean to do. A lot of people like to think that you are still in control of your actions even when you are drunk, but sometimes that is really not the case. Alcohol affects pretty much every part of your body, including the neurological synapses in your brain. This is the reason that sometimes people don't remember what happened, your brain becomes unable to store memories.

Anyway, this isn't a lecture on alcohol, it is just the fact that there can be cases that it is explainable.

Originally Posted by Necros140606

the problem resides in the conception of relationships. so far, we've restricted sexuality between the walls of marriage and man-women interaction. i'd say this is a pretty dumb way to expletate this phisiological need. animals in general (don't forget we are too!) develop their relationship habits through evolution, therefore the habit which grants the best survival chances is the one passed on. we humans, on the other hand, do not strive for survival. our choices should be regulated by the logic of major pleasure for the self *AND* the others. a single person relationhip does not satisfy this need, and it is rather a surpassed view.

I agree with *most* of what you said, however "a single person relationhip does not satisfy this need, and it is rather a surpassed view," is not really something you can say. You can say that for yourself, but some people *can* feel satisfied in single person relationships. It just depends on the person.

Originally Posted by korny

Perhaps you encountered a situation that truly tested the limits of human flaws and human nature. A man, statistically far more susceptible to giving into sexual desires, is at a bar, has a good amount of drinks, meets a woman who he engages in conversation with finds there is great chemistry between them not to mention is inebriated. Leaves the bar without the woman only to find out she lives across the street as she's just exited her vehicle as he has. This man's wife has been away on business for 7 months. I think we all understand how this scenario could unfold and not be considered totally inexcusable no? I don't think it could be considered completely deliberate at all even without a situation of this magnitude. That's a very black and white way of thinking that is hardly fair, but maybe that's just me.

I didn't really consider specific situations when thinking about this, it may seem unlikely that things like that happen, but situations like that do occur. It's called a movie.

But really this is a good point. Because how many people do you think wake up in the morning thinking "I am going to cheat on my spouse today!" Obviously in most cases it is something that can be controlled, but sometimes even then that doesn't mean it is unforgivable.

Thanks for an example of a situation in which it may be understandable.

Originally Posted by Blue Bird

It's not just jealousy - it's the feeling of betrayal. When your partner cheats, they either tell you, or you find out. Either way, you feel betrayed. You trusted that person, and they did something behind your back. Just because you love them, and want them to be happy regardless of what the decide, it doesn't make things better. It doesn't give them the right to do whatever the **** they want, and you have to be OK because you love them. For cheating to apply, we have to assume that both sides are affectionate for each other, and care about each other to an extent. Someone loves you, and by cheating on them you're basically just taking their love and stepping over it. No decent person would do that on purpose. That's why people usually feel bad after they cheat. No matter how much you still love them, it's not just because you're jealous they did it with someone else. In some rare cases, it is understandable. But in a lot of others, I think there's more than just jealousy when it comes to cheating.

And yeah sorry I wrote it all in one huge paragraph. xD Just woke up and didn't know where to break.

I see what you are saying, but this is kind of going in circles. You said it was more the feeling of betrayal than jealousy, but why do you feel betrayed? Because they lied to you? Because they went behind your back? Because they hurt you. All this is saying to me is that love really is completely selfish, because when they do something that hurts you it is unforgivable. You said "Someone loves you, and by cheating on them you're basically just taking their love and stepping over it. No decent person would do that on purpose," so if we assume that they both love each other and one cheats on the other, because that person did something that broke that love, it causes you to stop loving them. It seems like what you are saying is that you love them loving you, because when they stop it makes you stop.

[super kid]

Cheating is not heat of passion, its premeditated. People plan to cheat on their partner, unless they were under the influence or drugs, or alcohol. It can be prevented. People cheat because either they don't feel loved anymore, or they really don't care at all in which they shouldn't be in the relationship in the first place.