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Old 08-23-2018, 12:59 PM   #1
Arch0wl
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Default are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vague?

clearly, what is called "nice" or "respectful" varies from person to person, and something like "you should just be nice" is a moral simplification.

any sort of moral code, or rule, or law based on ideas like:
"just being nice" or the converse "don't be a jerk"

"being a decent person"

"respect others"
will be inherently vague, and open to large debate. people's values will change how they interpret these words -- someone who seeks feedback about their body and wants to be flattered will think you are being "mean" if you tell the truth, while someone who wants objective fedback will think lying to spare their feelings is deeply inconsiderate. the vagueness of "being nice" will cause problems later, as there is no common basis to interpret what being nice or respectful means.

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Old 08-23-2018, 01:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

people fucking suck and no one deserves any form of intrinsic respect
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

respectable position
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

I think the lines between respecting and being nice are often tangled together, even though it's possible to be respectful without necessarily being nice, and vice versa.

The issue as a whole is that respect and niceness are both subjective and open for interpretation, and a good intentioned comment or action could lead to someone actually feeling disrespected or let down, or sometimes being respectful requires some un-niceness, which can be interpreted as disrespect.

I think naturally, whether right or not, being nice helps people get the idea that you're being respectful, as long as it doesnt dip into condescension... I also think theres natural bias integrated with niceness and respect, due to anything such as ideals or affiliations or even how someone is regarded, that clouds opinions on where the lines are drawn for these topics.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by choof View Post
people fucking suck and no one deserves any form of intrinsic respect
I think respect is earned but niceness/politeness should be an expectation until there is a good reason for the contrary
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

Imo, a simple form of respect should be given to anyone, and whether or not it gets more reformed or lost is up to the person being given that respect.

Respect in my thoughts is to be straight with one another and to not have selfish use of someone. Being respectful isn't always nice, especially when you have to put a friend in their place. "Being nice" is like "have your friends back, even if they're wrong" and i don't agree with that.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

I also see a difference between being respectful and respecting someone/something
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

I dont think respect is earned personally, I feel everyone deserves a default level of respect, and then it can be more or less depending on how they are
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

here is a discussion where there is widespread disagreement over what is nice/respectful:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...fourteen_year/
* people in favor of this think the friends are sparing him jail time, and that this is the only way he will learn

* people against think that this is barbaric and that there is no justification for violence
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

i mean, it depends on the situation lol, no one who would abuse a child whos mind isnt fully developed deserves respect lel, now there could be an argument made for 14 being mentally developed enough but lets be real its really not

Search up some guy named Ian Watkins from a band named lost prophets, when ur found out to be doing something thats considered morally reprehensible amongst literally every single person with a functioning brain, people aren't going to respect you lol

basically the guy like, was a hardcore pedo to the point where he exploited like, 2 year old babies and shit, in interviews his bandmates said they had no idea it was happening but if they had found out, they would have killed him right there on the spot, so....
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

"respect" and "being nice" is generally vague.

Direct people will tend to just straight out say the truth.
Indirect people may just tell you half truths in hope you get the idea and figure it out.

The former may appear like they're more harsh/not sensible.
The latter may appear like they're holding back intentions or being confusing.

There's probably other types of people, but I believe they can be classified in the above 2 groups.

If you're looking for a middle ground that would be ideal, I'd suggest looking up affirmative statements and to potentially try to integrate that your "arsenal" of ways to talk to others if you didn't already.
Definition: The term "affirmative" is a synonym of the term "positive." It indicates an attitude of acceptance or approval toward a previously expressed statement or idea. An affirmative response is sometimes referred to as an agreement.

So, 3 key elements that comes in mind:

- Talk about the topic, not the person.
- Maintain agreement
- Stay constructive

Maintaining agreement can be particularly difficult when you disagree with someone because you may feel the urgent need to correct them.
This is where communication tend to break.
The trick is to take the controversial statement that appears wrong to you and to test it out with your ideas to see what the other side has to say about it.

If you're having a conversation with someone doing this, I believe it's unlikely something goes wrong.

tl;dr: I think people who doesn't communicate with affirmative statements are likely to run into issues sooner or later with someone who doesn't see things the same way they do.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:49 PM   #12
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

Nice and respect aren't the same thing. You can't respect someone without there being a reason for you to. You can be kind to that person and kind is pretty universally known. Respect is appreciating a quality a person has or something like that. Just because someone didn't take what you said or did as nice, doesn't mean it wasn't respectful or something like that. Im dumb don't listen to me
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by Celirra View Post
I think the lines between respecting and being nice are often tangled together, even though it's possible to be respectful without necessarily being nice, and vice versa.
Does it matter for how people should be treated ?

I think how people feel about each others and how to communicate are two very different topics.

I just don't see a way to be practical about "being nice" and "respect" due to these words having multiple interpretations. So, it makes more sense to me to just optimize how to approach communication overall.
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by Hakulyte View Post
Does it matter for how people should be treated ?

I think how people feel about each others and how to communicate are two very different topics.

I just don't see a way to be practical about "being nice" and "respect" due to these words having multiple interpretations. So, it makes more sense to me to just optimize how to approach communication overall.
People should be treated with respect as a human and as politely as a situation sees fit in my mind, that's how I was raised
I think it does matter because some people think you have to be nice to people, or some people think that everyone deserves respect. Everyone deserves to be respected and treated nicely, not necessarily meaning that you have to respect and fit the arbitrary definition of niceness
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

treat people with respect to their face, shit talk behind their back, thats the way to live by
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:06 PM   #16
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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Originally Posted by blindreper1179 View Post
Respect in my thoughts is to be straight with one another and to not have selfish use of someone. Being respectful isn't always nice, especially when you have to put a friend in their place. "Being nice" is like "have your friends back, even if they're wrong" and i don't agree with that.
you have this completely backwards

the nicest thing you can do to a friend is to check them when they're wrong and this requires that you do not respect the flawed person that they are

that most people think "nice" means avoiding confrontation at any costs no matter the damage it causes to themselves or others is basically why what choof says is 100% correct
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

i mean objectively yea people are worthless and 100% of people will hurt or disrespect others if its in their own best interests or personal gain, but like maybe if we pretend its not the case it wont be
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

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mean things
Don't bully celirra on the forums please
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

would you prefer i act more like him and just do it exclusively behind his back
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: are ideas such as "respect" or "being nice" mutually understood, or are they vagu

If a person isn't automatically respectful to you, show them that you can be funny or unpredictable and they'll respect you.
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