Old 04-5-2011, 05:52 PM   #661
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

So, after one second of thinking I concluded that I was wrong and you guys were right. /gg
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:05 PM   #662
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

Ok, I agree that combo shouldn't matter in multiplayer because its a singular play, but when its your best score v. someone elses best score, 0 misses is a pretty good indicator of skill. After a FC, PA matters. Whats wrong with this hierarchy?

Combo should also matter for score.
Someone who can get combo 60 on a song is clearly worse than someone who can get a combo of hundreds, even if their PA/ number of misses is comparable.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:08 PM   #663
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

So, misses subtracting from your score doesn't do this enough?
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:08 PM   #664
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

The main problem I see with the new scoring system is fairly obvious once a little thought experiment is run. Ready?

Semi-decent player plays Pants. Does well up to the long-ass JS, gets wrecked, but mashes to the ending and its mindless 123423 8ths to get some semblance of a combo back. Under the old system, players are rewarded 1000 points for each step in their longest combo.

Under the new system, however, players receive 1000 points for EVERY ARROW THEY HIT. Long story short, non-FC scores on songs like Crowdpleaser are going to shoot through the roof. I personally can't tell whether this is a good or a bad thing, but it will make Happy Rainbow (the sub-1K avrank achievement token) an even bigger bitch to unlock.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:11 PM   #665
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

Isn't that how it is now? Mashing for FC's ruining ranks for missing.

EDIT: All in all, it goes back to who has the better skill. The average rank token is getting harder every day. There's no stop to that one.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:13 PM   #666
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

So someone just constantly pressing all 4 keys at one time to assure they get all the notes has skill? Ok that makes sense....

For this whole situation, combo just need to be worth A LOT less so that it isnt solely focused on combo. Otherwise we will just keep getting dumbasses like emu who suck so bad at the game that they just keep smashing all the keys to assure they get all the arrows because thats what they consider to be skill.

Hell look what happen when the gamma songs came out, look how many people went straight to mashing the whole song just to get the FC and hold a the best rank just for them to find out that those ranks werent going to stay. Seriously though, people dont even try anymore when they see a hard song, they just smash right through it because they are more worried about a silly rank rather than trying to improve and being able to actually do the song. No wonder FFR players always complain they are no good, when you take this path you're not going to go anywhere.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:16 PM   #667
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The game lost it's fun factor with too much competition. Wish this could be remedied with a suggestion.
I would argue the opposite. Tournaments have basically stopped, and skill tokens are rare appearances. There is no competition anymore.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:29 PM   #668
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

~Zeta~: Actually, I found that the recent rebirth of SotW was what catapulted me over the line into sub-1000 land because when a new song is released, everyone has a score of 0 on it, and thus everyone is considered rank 1.

But yes, in theory all songs will eventually have over 1000 AAAs, meaning that unlocking the token will be a matter of nailing a sufficient number of them.

As for you, Plan: Just because you're good at the game now doesn't mean the game shouldn't offer appropriate challenges for players of all skill levels. You were a newbie once, too. To hear you talk, one would think that we should just make the learning curve for new players impossible to ascend, or institute an unlock system that only grants access to harder songs after the less difficult files have been sufficiently wrecked on a certain account.

Some players find hard songs fun to play, even if they can't do so well on them. Maybe they like the song, or perhaps they find the parts that they can hit enjoyable. Either way, it motivates them to get better. And in a community as results-oriented as this one, we really shouldn't care about the path one chooses to take towards their own self-improvement, as long as we're there to lend a choice piece of advice ("gtfo" or any variant thereof does not qualify) or a sympathetic ear when things get tough.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:38 PM   #669
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I don't get the argument for keeping the combo based system.

We should keep it because noobs enjoy mashing? Huh?

They can mash all they want... there is no rule against it. But should they be rewarded with a good score? Hell no. That makes no sense. If that is how the want to improve, so be it. But get the crappy mashed scores off the top scores list-- they don't belong.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:40 PM   #670
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

PA rankings are eh and so are combo basing. Both have downsides. Case closed.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:41 PM   #671
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

Nice argument. I loved your bullet points.

PA base definitely outweighs combo.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:43 PM   #672
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

Guys, im not bad. I've AAA'd 3 Very Challengings.
The point was that it was fun to mash those songs when I wasn't good enough to play them for real. Mashing less was still a goal, it was just a clear way to improve my scores.

The main problem with boosting nonFC scores is that getting a good nonFC will ruin your Here we go chances until you can sup yourself.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:44 PM   #673
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Guys, im not bad. I've AAA'd 3 Very Challengings.
The point was that it was fun to mash those songs when I wasn't good enough to play them for real. Mashing less was still a goal, it was just a clear way to improve my scores.

The main problem with boosting nonFC scores is that getting a good nonFC will ruin your Here we go chances until you can sup yourself.
I don't think we should avoid making an improvement in the scoring system because of a token. It's a freakin token.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:50 PM   #674
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I don't think we should avoid making an improvement in the scoring system because of a token. It's a freakin token.
Token that people obviously worked hard for mashed or not mashed score. It's still an accomplishment to them. Just because the pros want PA scoring system does not mean it's going to go that way. Need to think about the other players too.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:50 PM   #675
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

FFR's timing isnt easy enough, I think it needs to be easier that way more people are able to get the St Scarhand token.
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Old 04-5-2011, 06:54 PM   #676
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FFR's timing isnt easy enough, I think it needs to be easier that way more people are able to get the St Scarhand token.
Agreed. Then more people would be happy.

Heck, let's just eliminate all songs challenging and above so everyone is great at this game. Then we can all get all the tokens and everyone will feel super good about themselves.

.....


Edit: And for those who want to call me an elitist, sorry, that's not the case. I worked hard for 4 years to get where I am, and a lot of people are still way better than me. I see that as a challenge, not a hindrance. I didn't whine and moan about hard tokens that I couldn't get a long time ago. I played more and got better. If the player isn't willing to play enough to get better, then they shouldn't get the token. If they don't have the talent, same thing: tough luck.

If Here we Go gets harder to get, fine, it gets harder to get. People will have to just get better.
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Old 04-5-2011, 07:03 PM   #677
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Agreed. Then more people would be happy.

Heck, let's just eliminate all songs challenging and above so everyone is great at this game. Then we can all get all the tokens and everyone will feel super good about themselves.

.....


Edit: And for those who want to call me an elitist, sorry, that's not the case. I worked hard for 4 years to get where I am, and a lot of people are still way better than me. I see that as a challenge, not a hindrance. I didn't whine and moan about hard tokens that I couldn't get a long time ago. I played more and got better. If the player isn't willing to play enough to get better, then they shouldn't get the token. If they don't have the talent, same thing: tough luck.

If Here we Go gets harder to get, fine, it gets harder to get. People will have to just get better.
Referring to the EDIT part here: Alrighty maybe just maybe did you ever think that they just wanted to get the token out of the way and were going to improve the score later? Obviously not because right now you are comparing yourself to the people not skilled at the game. When they know they get that token, they feel good about themselves. But wait I forgot this site is based on elitist opinions. No one cares about what the lower class has to say.
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Old 04-5-2011, 07:06 PM   #678
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Referring to the EDIT part here: Alrighty maybe just maybe did you ever think that they just wanted to get the token out of the way and were going to improve the score later? Obviously not because right now you are comparing yourself to the people not skilled at the game. When they know they get that token, they feel good about themselves. But wait I forgot this site is based on elitist opinions. No one cares about what the lower class has to say.
And they won't feel good about themselves when they AAA their first 9? Or get other tokens?

I can tell you, I wasn't losing sleep over not being even close to being able to get Oni when it first came out, and I sure wasn't on the boards complaining that the requirement was too hard. There are plenty of things to do/goals to accomplish outside of a very challenging token.
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Old 04-5-2011, 07:09 PM   #679
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And they won't feel good about themselves when they AAA their first 9? Or get other tokens?

I can tell you, I wasn't losing sleep over not being even close to being able to get Oni when it first came out, and I sure wasn't on the boards complaining that the requirement was too hard. There are plenty of things to do/goals to accomplish outside of a very challenging token.
I think they will focus on 99% FCs first and when I got my first 9, I was like ehh okay. AAA'ing a 9 isn't really nothing. It's right in middle of a 8 and 10. Just know the speeds of those difficulties and you should be able to AAA a 9 like Famouz or Seven.
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Old 04-5-2011, 07:15 PM   #680
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I think they will focus on 99% FCs first and when I got my first 9, I was like ehh okay. AAA'ing a 9 isn't really nothing. It's right in middle of a 8 and 10. Just know the speeds of those difficulties and you should be able to AAA a 9 like Famouz or Seven.
This pretty much sums it up I think.

I think we can all agree new players should not be "taught" that a mashed FC is something to strive for. A new scoring system would help ingrain it into the FFR community that the way to get better is practicing hitting the patterns, not just mindlessly mashing threw them.
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