Old 05-11-2019, 06:21 PM   #41
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

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Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI View Post
What the bill doesn't prevent:
- Miscarriages
- Vassholes (fourth degree tears, yuck!)
- Other severe damage. I'd suggest not looking up pictures of uterine prolapse if you don't want to vomit.
- Cesarean sections. The thought of a C-section makes me want to throw up.
- Death (happens a surprising number of times in childbirth)
- Unsafe abortion ("back-alley" abortions)
- Financial stress
- Multiple pregnancies, which have a higher rate of fetal death
- Fetal abnormalities. Anencephaly is lethal for the fetus and is just one of many.

So where's the plan to make sure women get the proper prenatal care if they are required to go through a full pregnancy? And where does this bill help the fetus again?
It doesn't and it betrays the real hypocrisy of these pushes. Pro-life is such a misnomer. Hell, for the reasons you stated above, "pro-birth" isn't even accurate.

They are anti-abortion and that's it.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:23 PM   #42
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

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You don't even need to go remotely that far to find hypocrites in the pro-life movement. How about we even grant that they refer only to human life. How many of them are pro-life of poor people, or immigrants, or children in the foster care system or the homeless?
The counter-argument used in that case is that the scope of the argument is to abortion. Really, the whole courtroom narrative with the pro-choice/pro-life labeling is ridiculous. It's basically "you're an enemy and I need to demonize you" -- which is why the pro-life side is so obsessed with wanting to use terms like pro-death, baby killers, murderers, etc.

Disproportionate focus is spent on trying to pass legislation to ban abortion without keeping the following in mind:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI View Post
What the bill doesn't prevent:
- Miscarriages
- Vassholes (fourth degree tears, yuck!)
- Other severe damage. I'd suggest not looking up pictures of uterine prolapse if you don't want to vomit.
- Cesarean sections. The thought of a C-section makes me want to throw up.
- Death (happens a surprising number of times in childbirth)
- Unsafe abortion ("back-alley" abortions)
- Financial stress
- Multiple pregnancies, which have a higher rate of fetal death
- Fetal abnormalities. Anencephaly is lethal for the fetus and is just one of many.

So where's the plan to make sure women get the proper prenatal care if they are required to go through a full pregnancy? And where does this bill help the fetus again?
The woman still has to go through a full pregnancy which can result in many complications, and there are so many different scenarios where an abortion is considered that trying to generalize it in a courtroom instead of thinking of technological innovation (e.g. artificial incubator) is so fundamentally broken.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

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Disproportionate focus is spent on trying to pass legislation to ban abortion without keeping the following in mind
That...that's the point though. They don't actually care about any of the things you just listed, at all.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:39 PM   #44
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

On another note: I try to separate the pro-life concept from the pro-life movement.

If the narrative switched over to medical innovation, there could be creative solutions like an artificial incubator. It's interesting because:
- the woman can still end the pregnancy (I guess it could be a "transfer abortion" or something)
- the embryo (or fetus, depending on the stage of the pregnancy) is transferred to the incubator

This would allow women who might have physical problems to use said technology to assist in the development of the fetus, and not have to worry about issues like tearing, death, etc.

Sure, that may be a pipe dream, but it's a good idea to at least try for a while -- it'll also show the importance of having a safe and legal procedure.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:46 PM   #45
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

99% of people don't think like that. Of course it would be a lot better if there was artificial incubation, the issue has and always will be about female autonomy.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:48 PM   #46
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

I understand where you're coming from but I'm skeptical about any attempt at bridging the gap because the core issue is an impasse.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:48 PM   #47
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

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fuck abortion
auck fbortion

edit:
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what if you woke up and a random stranger stood beside your bed just to say good morning
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you'd tell them to fuck off

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Old 05-11-2019, 06:53 PM   #48
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I understand where you're coming from but I'm skeptical about any attempt at bridging the gap because the core issue is an impasse.
Probably my biggest issue with the pro-life movement. I don't see any attempt at stating how the fetus could be removed but still attempt to be salvaged. It respects the woman's choice for what happens with her body while still trying to learn more information in the future if the attempt wasn't successful.
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oh boy, it's STIFF, I'll stretch before I sit down at the computer so not I'm not as STIFF next time I step a file
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:54 PM   #49
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

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age 25
post 25
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Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill View Post
what if you woke up and a random stranger stood beside your bed just to say good morning
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you'd tell them to fuck off
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:00 PM   #50
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

ye the fetus never got a chance :C
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what if you woke up and a random stranger stood beside your bed just to say good morning
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you'd tell them to fuck off
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:05 PM   #51
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

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Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI View Post
Probably my biggest issue with the pro-life movement. I don't see any attempt at stating how the fetus could be removed but still attempt to be salvaged. It respects the woman's choice for what happens with her body while still trying to learn more information in the future if the attempt wasn't successful.
"Rather than an abortion, instead have this almost certainly invasive almost certainly dangerous medical procedure instead!" is not, in fact, respecting one's choice for what happens with their body.

-respecting their choice for what happens with their body- sure does though.
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:07 PM   #52
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

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they don't know what there missing
You don't wash your bedsheets until "they start to turn yellow" I don't think we need to worry about your view of abortion rights being relevant any time soon.
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:13 PM   #53
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

Do you think that by spamming, via making useless posts, you are accomplishing anything of use or worth?
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:32 PM   #54
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"Rather than an abortion, instead have this almost certainly invasive almost certainly dangerous medical procedure instead!" is not, in fact, respecting one's choice for what happens with their body.

-respecting their choice for what happens with their body- sure does though.
I imagined something like this would be voluntary

but still doesn't address the underlying problem
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:37 PM   #55
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

The problem is "People legislating what other people can do with their own bodies"

If they'd just -stop doing that- there'd be nothing to address.
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:44 PM   #56
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

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"Rather than an abortion, instead have this almost certainly invasive almost certainly dangerous medical procedure instead!" is not, in fact, respecting one's choice for what happens with their body.

-respecting their choice for what happens with their body- sure does though.
DaBackpack already posted what I thought was implied, but yes -- this would be a voluntary decision with the woman knowing what the possible risks are. It's the same idea that just because a woman has the choice to have an abortion, it doesn't mean she has to.

According to the CDC, 91.1% of abortions they recorded in 2015 were performed at less than 13 weeks into the pregnancy. The CDC also defines abortion as the following:

"For the purpose of surveillance, a legal induced abortion is defined as an intervention performed by a licensed clinician (e.g., a physician, nurse-midwife, nurse practitioner, or physician assistant) that is intended to terminate an ongoing pregnancy.

Most states and reporting areas that collect abortion data now report if an abortion was medical or surgical. Medical abortions are legal procedures that use medications instead of surgery."

In other words, the intent is to terminate the pregnancy. That does not necessarily mean death of the fetus. You can transfer the fetus to an artificial incubator and that's still terminating the state of the woman's pregnancy. This, of course, is also if said woman agrees to it.

Fetal tissue is super fragile at that time too so I can see why it would be very hard, if not impossible, to actually salvage it. And at 13 weeks or less, trying shouldn't be as invasive as in the second trimester.

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The problem is "People legislating what other people can do with their own bodies"

If they'd just -stop doing that- there'd be nothing to address.
Agreed that the topic is best addressed outside of the courtroom.

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I imagined something like this would be voluntary

but still doesn't address the underlying problem
What is the underlying problem you are referring to?
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:47 PM   #57
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

actually u kno i dont think georgia is all that bad altho i havent been there accept passing through to get to alabama
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you'd tell them to fuck off
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:49 PM   #58
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I'm of the opinion that all the reasoning about "the fetus is alive"/other pro-life rhetoric is used post-hoc to justify a gut reaction or some indoctrination

the underlying problem I see is that abortion is only really a problem to conservatives because of religious indoctrination and/or a desire to subjugate women

everything else is performative
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:49 PM   #59
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Default Re: fuck Georgia

Going back to the bill though, prosecuting miscarriages while also not addressing how to lower the number of miscarriages is a gigantic contradiction. The bill is ridiculous, as if the legislative efforts on this topic weren't already bad enough.

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the underlying problem I see is that abortion is only really a problem to conservatives because of religious indoctrination and/or a desire to subjugate women
There are secular people I have seen that identify as pro-life and their main issue is that it's the death of a person. It's one of the reasons I mentioned how abortion is terminating a state of pregnancy, although how it's actually performed is another topic. Currently there are medical and surgical abortions that end up in the death of the fetus.
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:32 PM   #60
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You don't wash your bedsheets until "they start to turn yellow" I don't think we need to worry about your view of abortion rights being relevant any time soon.
Wow. Congratulations. This must be one of the most complete and utter murder by words I've seen in my history on the internet.
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