Old 07-20-2019, 04:14 PM   #261
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

i am now even more confused than i was. ffr ranking used to make sense to me...
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:20 PM   #262
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

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Originally Posted by One Winged Angel View Post
Two players recently past you in rank. Neither of them are the user that Haku linked who had gotten those scores four months ago, he was already past you. His post had nothing to do with your inquiry.
i didnt bring up that at all... anyway, both players who surpassed me havent been on in about 4 years. but somehow surpassed me. so is ranking based on some unrelative number that means nothing? someone who hasnt played before can be ranked #1 after 15 songs, but a veteran like me plays his heart out and loses two ranks? im very VERY VERY confused. please, can someone explain this to me in a way i can understand so i can start bringing up my rank again?
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:21 PM   #263
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

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Originally Posted by ismokepots View Post
i am now even more confused than i was. ffr ranking used to make sense to me...
A weighted average skill rating based on your fifteen best scores replaced average rank as the main ranking system on the site years ago. It's much more representative of a player's actual skill level and doesn't require having to score on over 2000 charts to get a competitive ranking.

Average rank still exists, it's just not what's represented by rank on your player card anymore.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/.../?sort=avgrank

This will show you your actual average rank and the rank of your avrank relative to other players.

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Originally Posted by ismokepots View Post
i didnt bring up that at all... anyway, both players who surpassed me havent been on in about 4 years. but somehow surpassed me. so is ranking based on some unrelative number that means nothing? someone who hasnt played before can be ranked #1 after 15 songs, but a veteran like me plays his heart out and loses two ranks? im very VERY VERY confused. please, can someone explain this to me in a way i can understand so i can start bringing up my rank again?
Who passed you and how did you find out? Did you delve through the list of 7000+ users to find out who's ahead of you now that wasn't before? And if you do know who passed you, it's entirely possible they updated their scores manually to reflect their ranking, it requires a manual refresh to appear on the leaderboards. They could have gotten those scores years ago and never updated their ranking until very recently.

edit: I'm going to make the assumption you're thinking current ranks 7541 and 7542 are the two players that passed you...that's most certainly not the case
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:43 PM   #264
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

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Originally Posted by One Winged Angel View Post
A weighted average skill rating based on your fifteen best scores replaced average rank as the main ranking system on the site years ago. It's much more representative of a player's actual skill level and doesn't require having to score on over 2000 charts to get a competitive ranking.

Average rank still exists, it's just not what's represented by rank on your player card anymore.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/.../?sort=avgrank

This will show you your actual average rank and the rank of your avrank relative to other players.



Who passed you and how did you find out? Did you delve through the list of 7000+ users to find out who's ahead of you now that wasn't before? And if you do know who passed you, it's entirely possible they updated their scores manually to reflect their ranking, it requires a manual refresh to appear on the leaderboards. They could have gotten those scores years ago and never updated their ranking until very recently.


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Old 07-20-2019, 04:48 PM   #265
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

Yes, read my edit. That's not how ranking works at all. The two players that passed you can be anywhere between your rank and #1 and it will bump you down in rank, they're not always going to appear just above you. So you don't know who passed you and it's very likely based on scores obtained very recently, not four years ago.
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i want to be cucked by cirno

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Old 07-20-2019, 04:53 PM   #266
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

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Originally Posted by One Winged Angel View Post
Yes, read my edit. That's not how ranking works at all. The two players that passed you can be anywhere between your rank and #1 and it will bump you down in rank, they're not always going to appear just above you. So you don't know who passed you and it's very likely based on scores obtained very recently, not four years ago.
2 things:

firstly, im even more confused than my last "even more confused" post.

second, i really appreciate everyones help in trying to explain it to me, but it just seems like im not going to understand it.

im just going to go back to enjoying the game, song per song, and consider the ranking system a loss :/ have a good one.
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:56 PM   #267
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

Imagine a player signed up yesterday and miraculously AAA'd all the hardest charts in the game. They'll pass you in rank, but they're not going to show up directly above you in the leaderboards. They'll push you down relative to where you were because now they're ahead of you, but they'll be ranked at #1 (and consequently every other player's rank will move down one)

The two players directly ahead of you were always ahead of you. Their ranks were pushed down as well by whoever passed you.
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Old 07-20-2019, 05:39 PM   #268
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

I could give a model to help show the point of this situation:


Let me create some 'dummy' leaderboard for skill rating that contains you (ismokepots) and the two old profiles directly above you (kehai & JeanLuclariviere), and add several fake profile between your spot and #1. (REMEMBER this is completely made up)

1. PLAYER_1
2. PLAYER_2
3. PLAYER_3
4. PLAYER_4
5. PLAYER_5
6. PLAYER_6
7. PLAYER_7
8. JeanLuclariviere
9. kehai
10. ismokepots
11. RandomPerson352
12. RandomPerson898
(red names just means that they are underneath you, nothing really special)


ok so basically what you're missing out is that before you updated the leaderboards, those two guys (Jean and kehai) were already ahead of you at that moment. But as you offlined for a long period of time, two new profiles/players ranked up ahead of you (and it is not always the spot right after you). And since your profile hasn't been updated in a vast time period you were not able to see your present rank yet.

So let me introduce the two profiles (EtienneSM and Ziltoid). They will pass you while you're offline and hit spots #1 and #2.

Now the leaderboard looks like this:
1. EtienneSM
2. Ziltoid
3. PLAYER_1
4. PLAYER_2
5. PLAYER_3
6. PLAYER_4
7. PLAYER_5
8. PLAYER_6
9. PLAYER_7
10. JeanLuclariviere
11. kehai
12. ismokepots

You can clearly see that you have been moved from #10 to #12. But as a result from etienne and ziltoid jumping straight into the first and second places, everyone else experienced the same. Kehai went from #9 to #11, Jean went from #8 to #10, etc, etc. everyone gets bumped down simultaneously like One Winged Angel had already explained.
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Old 07-20-2019, 05:42 PM   #269
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ismokepots View Post
so is ranking based on some unrelative number that means nothing?
It's quite the opposite, you just aren't looking at the correct "what" of this rank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ismokepots View Post
someone who hasnt played before can be ranked #1 after 15 songs, but a veteran like me plays his heart out and loses two ranks?
This is technically correct, as "awful" as it sounds to you. Your rank isn't based on how far you've "climbed the ladder" - it's based on how your best scores stack up to the best scores of others. If someone else new comes along and takes rank 1 as OWA stated, then EVERYONE would drop down a rank because they've moved in at the number 1 spot. It's purely based on your performance with your top scores compared to others' top score performances, not "how hard you've tried" ("average rank") or "how much time you've invested" ("grandtotal rank").
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Old 07-20-2019, 05:55 PM   #270
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ismokepots View Post
someone who hasnt played before can be ranked #1 after 15 songs, but a veteran like me plays his heart out and loses two ranks?
Why would you deserve a higher rank over the more skilled person that happens to have a newer account?
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Old 07-20-2019, 06:36 PM   #271
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ismokepots View Post
2 things:

firstly, im even more confused than my last "even more confused" post.

second, i really appreciate everyones help in trying to explain it to me, but it just seems like im not going to understand it.

im just going to go back to enjoying the game, song per song, and consider the ranking system a loss :/ have a good one.
Allow me to clarify. I can see where you're struggling to understand what's going on, so I'm gonna help you there.

Here is your current dashboard.


And here's mine for comparison.


What you're seeing are the top 15 scores of both of us, and these determine your global player rank. The system takes the top 15 scores you've gotten and averages them out to determine what your player level is based on AAA equivalency.

What is "AAA Equivalency?" It's very simple. It means that whatever score you get on a song, that's about the level of AAA you might get based on your performance.

For example, let's suppose we take Excite Bike, which is a difficulty level of 3. A AAA on it would result in a 3.0 AAA equivalency. So let's take your top score which is The Games We Played Part 1, which is a difficulty 66. You currently have a AAA equivalency of 44.29, meaning that in order to match that, you'd need to AAA a song whose difficulty is roughly 44 to 45.

Now we'll take my top score of Game Genie, a difficulty 91, making my current AAA equivalency of 88.65. Meaning in order to match that, I'd need to AAA a song whose difficulty is 88-89.

As for the bottom 14 scores below that, what that is is your AAA weight, or the songs that carry most of the weight of your skill level so far. The system takes those scores, adds them together, and then divides them all by 15 to get the overall average. So let's use an example here in terms of math.

Let's say your highest AAA is a level 50 chart. As an example, we'll say it's The Impresario. For the sake of argument, let's suppose you've black flagged an addition 14 level 50 charts. The system detects this and averages that out to get an estimate of roughly 49-50, which comes out as your skill level.

In case you're still confused, let's dial it down and make things even simpler. Let's supposed you have AAA'd all Level 1 charts and have played nothing else. The system will detect those charts as your highest scores and therefore averages you to level 1 by default since you haven't played any harder charts. If we're talking Level 2 charts plus Level 1 charts, it'll be roughly half way between Level 1 and 2. Adding all Level 3 charts will get you at least level 3 or 4, adding all level 4 songs will put you at roughly level 4, and so on.

Now, we'll take this same logic and apply it to moderate difficulties. Let's suppose you ignore every other difficulty level and you play only level 55 charts and AAA all of them except for one, and let's suppose for that one you get a score of 3-1-1-2 or something like that. That run would be your weakest, so the game would likely ignore it and average out only the top 15 scores on that dashboard, putting you at an even 55 if you only play level 55 charts and have, again, AAA'd all except for that one.

Things only get a bit complicated when you get messy scores on higher level songs, but you get a AAA equivalency of a lower level. That is your peak until you skill boost and improve your current best score. Therefore, by improving your score on Games we played Part 1, you'll not only increase your skill rating, but you'll also improve your player rank.

And like everyone else said, everything else doesn't matter. The only thing that matters in this case is what songs you play and how well you do on them. The harder the song, and the better you do on that song, the higher your skill rating, which is the short version of everything I just said.

I hope this helped, and sorry for the long-ass reply.
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Old 07-20-2019, 06:54 PM   #272
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

Okay let me try this.

Your skill rating is based on the scores of the 15 best songs you have a score recorded for.

How good your score is, is based on the "AAA Equivalency" of the song, that is to say, there's a formula that takes your score and say "This is as good as a AAA of a song of difficulty X"

So if you got a AAA on a song with difficulty 27, that would have a AAA equivalency of 27

Whereas if you got a score of say, X-4-0-0-0 on a 27, that has a AAA equivalency of 24.37

So only the highest 15 AAA equivalencies you've earned will contribute to your skill rating, and thus ranking.

The 15th best score you have is a 36.30 equivalency, which means no score on any song below difficulty 36 can possibly increase your ranking, and only extremely good scores on 37-40s will.
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Old 07-20-2019, 07:52 PM   #273
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

And also one more thing to clarify is that you haven't recently broken any of your top 15 scores yet, so you have made no progress in the overall (skill) leaderboard ranking.
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Old 07-20-2019, 08:58 PM   #274
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Default Re: Skill Rating & Leaderboards Discussion [Updated Oct 16]

Yo im mad hungerey to somebody make me a chicken avocado wrap
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