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Old 08-23-2018, 02:01 PM   #1
Arch0wl
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Default safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H20jwYq8WI


main ideas:

1. safety culture / comfort culture / safe spaces actually harm people, and you are making them worse off by advancing them

2. people benefit from criticism and argument -- not just in a truthseeking sense, but in the sense that it prepares them for jobs

3. you are actually acting against the interests of other people by comforting them or making them "safe" (as in emotionally 'safe', not physically safe like it's usually understood)

4. we are better off to the extent we encourage antifragility norms, not victimhood norms
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticis

I have had a hard life camping in the urban jungle for 8 of the last 10 years. I truly love occasionally being in a soft, warm, safe place.
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticis

I tend to agree with the argument that the more you emphasize the state of a victim, the more you create dependency and useless separation. However a few points seem to lack arguments there:

1. "they have fights in the playground, someone call em stupid, they fight, [...] that make you grow up". It is implied, following the logic that authorities should not be the ones to intervene in such scenarios (victim/agressor), that the kid should fight back and stand their ground. However, I would like to know what should then be done in cases of bullying, for example. What should be taught to the kids to minimize victimhood but to also maximize the support they get to become more able to defend themselves properly (defend as in take the right decision or reply in some way) ?

2. The "benefits" of victimhood aren't really well formulated at all there, he only says that straight white males benefit from it (for what I think are legit reasons). In the last years, some (LGBT relatively recently, blacks, etc) of the 6 mentionned groups of people have seen themselves more socially accepted (it being good or bad is another debate and I think irrelevant to my point). That being said, I think that part of the speech should be more detailed with definitions of what a benefit actually is in this context.


Overall, I agree with the premise that victimhood is more bad than good in terms of developping more robust/intellectual social interactions, but I fail to see any legitimate suggestion (say with numerical analysis of the situation/problem or just logical statements) to "improve" the situation. "Moderation (between victimhood and its opposite) is key" just seems obvious here, so it'd be great to hear some solutions too.

Nice video, nice thread, even though lmao at the many threads on similar topics you've made in such a short amount of time haha.
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticis

You're confusing the idea of having access to a safe space with an idea that all spaces at all times must be safe or made to be safe.
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticis

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
You're confusing the idea of having access to a safe space with an idea that all spaces at all times must be safe or made to be safe.
I don't think "confusing" is the best choice of word here; seems like he isn't Considering middle grounds and going solely for the extreme idea. I might be wrong though
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticis

we as humans should never become fully comfortable
nor should we become fully aggressive

i'm speaking in a mainly survivalist context

if you are too relaxed or undisciplined:
when something goes wrong, your fight or flight response (whichever it may be)
will not be fully prepared for the dangers you face, minor or major.
One can't be ready for everything, but being ready to begin with is a good plan.
this goes for mental or physical issues.

if you are too emotional or forward:
you may cause discomfort for others.
you bring danger to yourself, whether it be in the context of a life or death situation or a debate.

you must THINK before you act. not letting bias take hold of your emotional state.
take in all information possible and only then form an opinion. this will produce an intelligible discussion.

now i forgot what i was talking about

okay,
humans are centered around drama.
that sentence proves OP's point of people benefiting from debates and opposing opinions because it can be seen no matter where you go.

i disagree with the claim that "safety culture" is entirely negative.
it benefits some.


ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT.
i like the video and agree

Last edited by shrewms; 08-24-2018 at 11:27 PM..
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticis

Identity politics and safe spaces are actually the worst thing ever conceived that have been brought upon our modern society. I'm honestly fed up with the sjw whiney everything offends me culture that is on the rise it does nothing for the sake of "progressivism" in fact it's actually very regressive on our society to the fact where Minorities are seeking spaces free from "white people" because we are all apparently inherently racist. Welp I guess if they want to go back to the days of segregation then they are pretty much closet racists in my opinion.

Last edited by ShAiOnEiX; 09-11-2018 at 12:22 AM..
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticis

This is not chit-chat. This is CT. Please keep the bickering to Chit-chat or Garbage Bin. Thank you.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticis

i didnt know people were allowed to bicker on the forums

to make this post not completely tangential to the thread, i think the safe spaces that shai... letters was talking about is actually fine. i get wanting to be around people who are like you and who have similar experiences. minorities dont want to be separate; they just want another place that they can inhabit. its like frequenting multiple forums.

im on my phone. i dont know if this makes sense
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticis

I disagree with the thread. Safety and comfort are not debilitating, they're a human right. An argument is as much discourse as a discourse is criticism, that is to say not at all. No One benefits from conflict a conflict of ideas, but an exchange of ideas is an opportunity for human growth. Two sides to every coin is a truth, no one side is true without the other.
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: safety/comfort culture is debilitating; people benefit from argument and criticis

Good luck getting anyone to reply I'm not going to refute since half of my posts were deleted from this thread and I feel it should be removed IMO since OP isn't even here anymore. However I agree with the video wholeheartedly.

Last edited by ShAiOnEiX; 09-11-2018 at 07:28 PM..
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