250 words

[devonin]

So I think that the lit forum needs a few more threads that aren’t just one person posting a story and everyone else commenting on them. To that end, I’m making this thread, which I hope will be the first of several like it. This particular thread is a writing challenge thread. What that means is that every post in this thread (indeed, both submissions -and- comments on submissions) must obey the directive which is the point of the thread. The restriction on posts here is that they must all be exactly two hundred and fifty words long. It doesn’t matter whether you’re posting original content or discussing someone else’s they all have to be exactly 250 words. While I guess I can’t really blame people if they occasionally have to resort to a “The End” or something to shore up the word count, you should really try to avoid it. The purpose of putting strict limits on writing is that it forces you to really develop an extensive vocabulary so that you can be as verbose or succinct as the occasion calls for without having to struggle to fit everything into the length you want to work with.

So go forth, write, and very carefully count your words, because if you come in under or over the limit, we reserve the right to give you precisely 250 worded mockery.

And yes, this post is also 250 words, because I’m sure all of you went and checked to be sure.

[Seefu Sefirosu]

Well, I on the other hand think that the abbreviation 'lit' does not count as a word, being simply an exceedingly informal abbreviation for 'literature', a far better choice for the situation, a formal writing challenge. Also, independently of the last sentence, I believe that if you are to write a two-hundred-and-fifty word post, you must have it grammatically correct. If I were to edit your post, Devonin, and make it grammatically sound, you would have two-hundred-and-fifty-one words, and that just wouldn't do, now would it?

Take a piece of your second-to-last sentence: "...we reserve the right to give you precisely 250 worded mockery." This sentence does not agree in number. I could re-write this in two ways. Firstly, I could re-write it as “…we reserve the right to give you precisely 250 worded mockeries (which isn’t what you meant), or, alternatively, as “…we reserve the right to give you a precisely 250 worded mockery. The minor omitting of a single article changes your entire post to read correctly as two-hundred-and-fifty-one words, making it slightly ironic that, as the hopeful implementer of this idea, you have already violated your own word limit.

In closing, hopefully you, Devonin, can see how closely you must learn to proofread your work, especially when condensing it into such a tight space, and such a potent message. I do request that, even if you don’t agree that ‘lit’ isn’t technically a word, you edit your post to be grammatically sound and two-hundred-and-fifty words in length.

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((Out-Of-Post: I counted. Two hundred and fifty words exactly, including lit, two hundred forty eight without it. But I'm counting it because you did.

@ Silvuh: Will post formal reply later. Do note that hyphenated stuff counts as one word. As it stands, your post is four words short.))

[Silvuh]

I really like this idea. Unfortunately, I don't think that it will help my vocabulary much. I believe I can easily write something with my low vocabulary level that is two-hundred fifty words long. Which reminds me, I was trying to write a flash fiction earlier. I forgot how many words I left it with. I was trying for at least three hundred or so. I had no idea where to go with it. Maybe I can post the few words I've written so far, and people will comment on it with some of their two-hundred fifty words. Commenting and critiquing, of course. I just opened the file I saved it in, and it is currently only sixty-five words long. Thought I had at least a hundred. Guess not. Don't really feel like posting it now, anyway. I would rather have some conversations first.


And that is how much I typed before refreshing the thread page. This paragraph is in response to the person who just posted. Abbreviations are shortened forms of words. They should count towards the word count. Things like “Herald St.” and “Lit. Forum” should count as two words. After all, they are separated by spaces. I don't know what to say about the grammar issue, however. If someone is allowed to post a list of two-hundred fifty random words with no punctuation... I forgot where I was going with that sentence, but I think you get the idea. This sentence is relevant.

[devonin]

Come on Seefu, you’re turning what was supposed to be a neat literary challenge into what amounts to a critical thinking thread with a word count limit, and thus one that is in the wrong forum. Almost everybody I’ve ever seen refer to this area of the forum calls it either ‘lit’ or ‘the lit forum’ so criticizing me for referring to it in the same way that all of the regulars do, simply because it isn’t ‘formal’ enough seems more than a little silly. I also deny that the phrase ‘250 worded mockery’ is grammatically incorrect. At best you could insist that I hyphenate 250-worded because it serves purely as an adverb describing which kind of mockery we reserve the right to give you. Your attempted corrections conversely are actually incorrect, or at least less than fully correct. “We reserve the right to give you a precisely…” suggests that we are only entitled to give one such mockery, when instead we collectively all reserve the right to mock you repeatedly in that manner if we so desire. Since I simply referred to the forum using a valid abbreviation common to many who frequent it, and deny that my statement in the second paragraph was grammatically incorrect, I feel that I am under no obligation whatsoever to edit any portion of my post. As well, I haven’t yet needed to go outside my words to make my point, while you have more than once. Stones and glass houses my friend.

[devonin]

Silvuh, the thing about a challenge like this isn’t necessarily -just- about any kind of vocabulary ‘building’ so much as vocabulary ‘choosing.’ You need a larger vocabulary to be able to pull together sentences in a way that can still read well and carry all of your meaning, while fitting into certain fixed lengths. You have to strike a balance between volume of content and depth of content in such a short passage. This sort of exercise works the best with either pure description, or pure dialogue. Where it gets most interesting, in my opinion, is the descriptive end. With so few words, you really have to find the middle point between describing minutia very thoroughly, and describing something larger only superficially and that’s something I always find really interesting to read.

While I’m perfectly happy to continue just posting on the merits and demerits of this style of limited writing, or defending my word choice to Seefu, I was really hoping that by now someone would have posted some actual literary content. Once I get back home next Tuesday and can actually access some of my existing writing for ideas and inspiration, I’ll put a passage or two in for everyone’s perusal. In the meantime, Silvuh, I’m curious to read what you have so far for your flash fiction, since it sounds very much like what I was looking to see people post here. Maybe Seefu will post some original content as well, instead of just nitpicking my posts. :P

[Sullyman2007]

This sounds interesting. Unfortunately these types of challenges are often slow moving, and normally only consist of a few people, or should I say a few "types" of people, given the literacy rate of the internet. Most people that see this thread will take a quick look, then just close out after they see huge blocks of text. Even myself, well I like to think I have a half decent vocabulary, but my main problem always seems to be putting my thoughts into a coherent enough form that people will actually enjoy reading what I write. Hopefully though, someone will post a good read. Once we get a good conversation going I think this will be a lot of fun.

Now I need to think of something interesting to write about. First thing that has come to my attention is a good way to count the words... besides the manual way. I don't have Microsoft Word on this computer, anyone know another way? I guess for now I'll keep doing it as I've been doing; counting every five or six lines and putting them in parentheses and then add them up at the end.

Now a few things about the challenge. Maybe, and of course pending on how much attention this thread gets, we could increase the post requirement every once in a while. It's just an idea, but it's a good idea if you want to see/feel the challenge get progressively harder.

[Z#_]

This is all very interesting. I have written many stories before, but never under a strict set of rules - even my poetry follows no form. It does seem to be a challenge to write a small story in the small space of 250 words =) Do we just write about whatever we want? Or is the point to converse with other people?

I think that writing within a 250 word limit does not particularly challenge one's ability to choose fitting vocabulary, but rather the ability to concisely and pithily express yourself. You have to be able to explain well enough that everyone understands, but you also cannot add unimportant detail. I definitely think this is a fun idea ^^ I will probably post a story or something later.

Progressively changing the challenge might provide for a fun experience, but people coming to view the thread later might want to post according to rules that we already finished with. If we made it progressively harder people would probably end up posting with the wrong rules, or something else of the sort. I think maybe it would be better to start a new thread if we wanted to change the rules. Although I must say that requiring more than 250 words would be getting on the onerous side. As you said, people aren't interested in huge blocks of text, and given all the people who post two to five words nowadays, not many people would want to write novel every time they posted.

[TheRapingDragon]

Very nice thread Devonin. This really does push the boundaries of literature though. I mean everyone now will be thinking of what to write so that they can reach your target and not writing to try to increase their literacy. Which is a shame really because I think if people just checked the words after instead of as they went along then they'd be able to improve their linguistic capacities just that little bit more.

Wouldn't you agree?

Well, that point aside I would have to say that I did actually go through each post and check how many words each person had posted. I was shocked to see that Sullyman had only wrote 241 words in his post. I mean this is pretty preposterous because it goes against the very point that this thread is explicatively stating.

I went further and checked and saw that Devonin, you yourself have wrote a post with 259 words, unless you count an emoticon as a word (which I don't).

Even more shocking was again that Silvuh only had 245 words in his post.

All in all this isn't going too well now, is it? I mean I have looked at all of the posts and so far not very many posts have reached the target of two-hundred-and-fifty words.

Guess all I can hope for is that some future posters will adhere to the rules and will show some high-class posts, perhaps with a twist.

Until then however I stand aghast at the lack of conformity found here.

Aside (outside 250) EDIT: Unfortunately I fear I may be wrong now as different word count tools are giving me different results and I'm too lazy to count all of my words for fear of making a simple counting error. Apologies to anyone if I'm wrong at all in my post. I really should install MS word again.

[Silvuh]

It was after I made the original post that I realized I was missing the point by checking the word count as I went along and adding in a nonsense sentence at the end instead of changing the language in the rest of the post to fit the 250 words. I read the opening post again, and I can't believe I missed how it mentioned that you shouldn't add little sentences at the end to adhere to the word count. On another note still semi-related, I usually don't speak in complete sentences without pausing or adding extraneous words like “yeah”. That's one thing it has helped me with.


I use OpenOffice, and I checked a few things in its word count tool. For instance, a hyphenated word like “twenty-three” is counted as two words. Other tools probably count a hyphenated word as two words, because there is not a space between them. I used four hyphens in my previous post here, so with this noted, the word count could easily be 246. This makes me wonder what else could be different between tools that causes the count to be 245. With this tool, numbers and abbreviations count as words. Oddly, “^^” is not a word, yet “=D” is. Neither should count as words. I believe that hyphenated words should only be counted once. Therefore, this post should have 253 words at the end according to this program's tool to be a “correct” 250 words by my standards. I'm probably missing something else.

[Silvuh]

I didn't check to see how many words I had typed until I finished the second paragraph there. The tool told me the two paragraphs included 251 words, so I changed a bit of wording at that time to fit. Should I have written more so I would have to do more language editing? Say, to contract all the content from 280 to 250 words? It's more difficult than editing to add two words, for sure. I'm sure we're allowed to double post with another 250 words, but would it be better if we fit 500 words of information in to a single 250? If that's possible? I think one of the points of this is to make things like that possible; correct me if I'm wrong..


Thinking about flash fiction again, the question of “does a story has to fit in 250 words?” occurred to me. In my first experience with these really short stories, they were all around 250 words in length or shorter. According to web sites, a flash fiction can be 1,000 words long, while short stories are past 3,000 words in length. Would it be okay to post a story that covers multiple posts? Maybe a story should have distinct sections that are each 250 words to be postable. Where would author commentary fit in to posting a story? In the next post? Would it matter if a story wasn't exactly a multiple of 250 words if there was commentary to go along with it?

[Shenlon]

Oh man this is a brilliant idea Dev. I think it’s going to be hilarious because a lot of people who have too much to say will be forced to cut it down, and many more people who are considerably less glib will be forced to talk more. You can always tell who seems to be rambling on but with an exercise like this I think that’s to be expected. God knows I’m guilty of it as well.

Do you know what a micro story is? fiction that is relegated to an absurdly low character limit. Like 50 words or 100 words and this seriously reminds me of something like that. I also assume that anything you have to say must be squished into one post, because cheating and dividing a thought into multiple, neat, 250 word posts would (obviously) defeat the purpose.

I hope this board ends up being popular because more often than naught - I suspect - people shall end up typing what’s on the top of their mind, loosely focused to fit into the overall flow of the post. And it would be interesting to see a perhaps suspect glimpse of fellow members’ minds.

Or, like me, they could neatly fit many shorter points into one post. There are a few ways to cheat the system and make this little challenge considerably easier than it actually is.

Anyways, no matter how anyone approaches this board, if it’s done with intent to play fair, this should be hella fun.

[Crashfan3]

A dimmed expanse of starlit sky casts pale rays of light across the night landscape. The pale moon casts a spotlight into the window of the small cottage by the shore, but the old fellow who dwells within it is not home. No, he stands out on the shore, facing the storm on the horizon.

“Ten miles it must be now. Soon my sins will be clean.”

A small boy runs away laughing. A horse wails a cry of pain. A man bursts out the front door to find his horse lying on the ground with a broken leg, and he curses at the sky. That night, the corpse of a young boy was buried.

“Five miles it must be now. O, violent storm, come and cleanse my tarnished soul.”

A young woman smiles as a man holds her in his arms. Softly, he kisses her for a moment that she dreamed would last until the end of time. Though it seemed to her family that he was the perfect man to bear her children, they were gravely mistaken. The body was hidden right beneath their sorrow-struck hearts.

A raging storm blocks out the starry sky and engulfs the landscape with spears of rain and thunder that echoes like the voice of an angered god. The old man stands alone, facing the storm on the horizon.

“O forces of the heavens! Accept my payment for my life’s dreadful sins!”

And all that remained was the sound of the howling wind…

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EDIT: Outside of the 250: First thing I've written in a while, and I think it's the first story I've ever posted here. MS Word says its exactly 250 words.

[EOP_MAGNITUDE]

I was going to comment on the the above users ideas and posts about this thread's idea, but then someone posts a completely off topic short story, which in fact is not to bad to read anyway. Ya know what, I think I will simply comment on the above opinions about this thread. After all, is that not the purpose of this thread? To take was others have to say, and "discuss" it? Well, I shall discuss it, using only the 250 word limit to help myself further this thread.

I mean, how bad would it look on my part if I commented on a 250 word thread and did not use 250 words? It would be unthinkable, and thus, I will use the 250 words to utter what I think of this thread. I will use the 250 words to make my opinions known and they will be straight from my head. There will be no outside influence, except the words by the fellow users. That is what this is all about, minus my redundancy I mean. Taking what others say, and using it to influence one’s own work, especially in a completely opinionated thread such as this.

Look at what everyone else is saying, and how they agree with this thread. They have their own opinions, and they are voicing it, just like I am about to do now. I am going to tell you how I feel about this thread. But, I have used all the words.

[cyrx900]

I really like this thread. Good job devonin! Now I have the ability to sound like a character from Speed Racer because they like to talk a lot at a fast pace so that the audience may have a good laugh at it. I really hope this expands my vocabulary as I am on my way as a freshman in high school and I really want to become a straight A student for all four years of high school. By the way, I think that instead of all the hard work from counting every single word in you own post, I am using Microsoft Word’s Word Count under the Tools tab to make my life easier. I just hope this isn’t cheating. Anyways, I think this thread is very creative and very helpful to us. Not only am I enjoying it but I am becoming smarter by the second. This will surely help me when it comes to writing prompts and essays in the near future. Again, good job devonin!

The problem is, whenever I come to the conclusion, I have a nasty headache because I have nothing else to say! This thread really does make you think very hard! So far, I have reached only up to two-hundred words up to the previous sentence. Oh well, at least this means that I am very close to the two-hundred-fifty word goal! I believe that this thread is about to attract more viewers in about ten minutes, because this is challenging!

[dore]

A family sleeps contently in their home. The shades are open and the doors are unlocked; there have been no crimes committed in the town since the war. The town is surrounded by picturesque mountains and lakes and is mostly cut off from the rest of the world, save for one access road. The citizens have no reason to leave their slice of heaven on earth.

In the middle of the night, Johnny hears a chomping noise like a rude individual eating potato chips by his ear. But he knows that he is alone and that the sound is much more distant. He becomes frightened and leaves his room for the comfort of his mother's bed; he is terrified to discover the hall light has been turned off. But then the shadow moved and the light brought focus to what was previously covering it, scarring Johnny for the few horrifying seconds he remained alive.

Further south, another family sleeps. The city is dilapidated and the tenants of this apartment building are tired of living. Suzie keeps her night light on as the only protection against the horrors of the city. She thrashes awake but realizes her fright was only because of a nightmare. Her room seems darker to her, and before she can fall back asleep she realizes her night light fails to illuminate the room at its full power. She saw the shadow. It moved toward her; her last hopeless wish was to slip back into that previous nightmare.