THREAD MOTHAFUCKAS MINTY 2 BITCHES NEW PACK YEAH

[Shadow_God_10]

Might step something for this once I get my shit done with Project 0.

[SKG_Scintill]

sent something japanese again, but not 15 minutes long

[Fantasticone]

Sent some revisions, if these do not fix issues then send me what you had in mind.

[MinaciousGrace]

hey kids its me again meana the anti fun meanie

Itsuwaranai Kimi (Celirra) - Ur right the song choice is truly some word that doesn't yet exist that envelops the concepts of meh, cringe, why, and kill me now. Fucking anime crybaby ballad sonnet ballet bonnet or some shit idk (ok it's not that bad). On the other hand pretty much everything from 0-131s is brilliant. There were some pattern transitions that felt a little awkward in my playthroughs but I haven't played in like 4 days so I'll hold off on giving any play-based pattern feedback. I have a few small chart-oriented comments though.

49.65-49.78s- This is pretty nitpicky but technically the high note is on the 92nd and technically it's way closer to the 24th after it. I don't really notice or care when playing the file (though I might have if I were paying attention more) but it does bother me a bit looking at it in the editor. If you don't want to painstakingly re-pr this so that the 2nd note is on 4 you can change the 4321 into a 4123(4?), which puts the high note on the ascent after the 4 and the final 8th on the right hand. Anyone not paying absolute attention will just mistake the high note for falling on the 8th and all is well and good in pr-the-ascending-harpsichord land.

56.21s- The 3 freezes to the strings in the background here should either be jacks or an xyx triplet. If you don't want to rearrange the notes I would either drop the freezes entirely or drop the last freeze; it's pretty hard to tell that all 4 12ths are being played and what most people will likely hear is two distinct notes and then a low hold on the strings.

75.1-75.6s- I'm pretty sure now looking at it that this is one of the sections that felt weird to me, and it doesn't really make sense to me looking at it in the editor either. The 443 pattern on the right hand is like ???. Offsetting stuff to 64ths doesn't always make it more intense, more noticeable, or more artistic. Sometimes it's better to just keep it vanilla.

128.49s- There should really be a jump here.

Unfortunately after 131s everything is as terrible and uninteresting as before it was brilliant.
I am shocked shocked (shocked) that you chose not to step the 32nd snares as notes and instead use rollds.
There really isn't a good opportunity to cut the song without fading out the few seconds before the transition, which doesn't sound too appealing to me and presumably less so to you. Putting down trills faithful to the snares would likely be way too difficult. You could use super-structured 32nd streams instead. You could also put down 24th trills. Or just drop the rollds and use freezes instead. The problem with the rollds is they make me want to hit 32nd snares and then it just frustrate and bores me that there aren't any and then I just don't even care enough to hit the 8ths during the rollds. Outside the obscene I would pretty much accept anything but this.

I would consider this one of the best submissions so far and were lofty around to sign off on a straight out accept (he probably would), it would make it in spite of the ending- though obviously conditional upon changing it. But lofty is doin that lame ass rl shit so for the time being all considerations to that effect are on hold.


Spooky Halloween Tour (Scintill) - I think you took "scary halloween show v2" a little too literally. And tbh I think in doing so you're trying too hard to give us what we want without really understanding what we want, which I suppose is mostly my fault for not conveying it well. Scary halloween show is catchy as fuck, and that (directly and indirectly) is the biggest point in its favor. The instrumental arrangement is much stronger and more present, if not more prominent. There are more vocalists, more dynamic between them, and more happening than a few of them singing a chorus in harmony. Most importantly the vocalists really just seem like they're having more fun. The vocalists push their vocal range and ability and that translates into more energy in the song and subsequently the chart. Spooky halloween tour instead feels timid, reserved, withheld- and that too translates directly into how it feels to play. The song is tempered, and by consequence so is the chart; I don't think anyone could change that, not even nvlm.

So to be clearer what I wanted song-wise was something similar in spirit, something catchy with a ton of vocal dynamic and strong underlying instrumentals. Not necessarily a halloween song, not necessarily an iosys song, not necessarily a song having anything to do with anime. Something that allows your strengths to shine. You're really good at pinning down arrhythmic vocals. You're really good at building structured patterns to choruses and then weaving them together with a strong understanding of jack tension/vocal tension. You're really good at stepping super technical sections in ways that enhance a chart, rather than interrupting it.

But that isn't to say your charting style doesn't have it's negatives (from the perspective of the pack and what we're aiming for). For me the 48ths in scary halloween show are a crippling detriment. You have a tendency to insert gross difficulty spikes into files when the music justifies it. For your technical charts this is both expected and fine. If the hard part is a huge difficulty spike that's technically accurate, then that's what the file is about and that's that. For a dump file though there's more of a choice to be made. You aren't adhering to the laws of technicality anyway (unless the difficulty spike comes from heavy layering of 16ths percussion as jumps in what otherwise would be straight 32nd stream). You have to weigh the cost of difficulty spikes on playability, and sometimes that cost isn't even clear until after a dozen plays of the file over the course of a week. You also have a tendency to fallback to 8th freezestream when you don't really know what else to put/don't want to think about it. Whether or not 8th freezestream functions well within a file depends on context, and for dumps it's mostly not. It creates empty space in a way that loses the attention of the player. 161-176s could easily have been replaced by straight 16th js with sparse jumpjacks where you have the 16th minijacks now. It wouldn't be very interesting, but it would be more interesting than what's there and certainly much more engaging. You could also have put down straight 24th js, or 32nd rollstream broken up with 16ths.

I know that's not your first instinct, or even your second, and I guess that brings us to the main point. I didn't really want a "scary halloween show v2" in the literal sense. What I wanted was "a song cool as fuc like scary halloween show stepped by Scintill v2". I wanted you to adapt your unique style in a way that meshes more with the pack goals. My major criticisms I had of any of your subs, including those to minty 1, boil down to either "lol difficulty spikes" and "too much empty space". This file doesn't really suffer critically from either of those- somewhat the latter, but as you have noted it just really feels generic. Uninspired, perhaps. You're trying too hard to fit the star shape into the diamond hole. This sort of falls into the same boat as emerald alice. It's not great, but it's not terrible. I don't really know where you could go with this that would drastically improve it. I'm not sure it's worth the effort. If you do want to make further changes the only things that really stick out to me are:

56.57s- this jumpjack pattern is incredibly awkward and I don't hear any pitch changes to justify it.
97s- 48th minibursts here are awkward and hitting them feels worse than eating room temperature ice cream.

Maybe you'll surprise me with fixes.


ALONE (James May) - There are a lot of things I like about this chart and a few things I really don't like (mostly due to pattern bias) and a few things that I think should be changed. Before I go into specifics I should say while I think this file could be fixed up for the pack it will never be a strong fit just based on the close-to-auto-reject-stepmanias-music status. Completely independent of pack submission viability the 48ths in the original file you sent me pretty much had to be removed and I think the file is much better for it, but I the file needs enough work and would likely be transformed enough that I would take pause and consider whether or not you want to do it. You might be happier with the file as is and releasing it in another venue.

If you do want to fix up the file for submission the major changes would have to be done to the intro/first half. I'd like to see you make the intro 16ths more interesting either via layering or jacks. I don't really get the rollds usage in the section immediately following and given how much harder the rest of the file gets I'm pretty much mandating that all the rollds be removed and the appropriate 24th/32nd minibursts are placed. The section is empty with the rollds- a confusing kind of emptiness.

82.5s- This part just feels strange. I would expect to be hitting the rollds to the heavy scratch synth in the background but they're going to the foreground melody instead.
132-143s- Layer in the melody on the 8ths.

Assuming you haven't decided you don't want to do any of this yet and then stopped reading, there are also some finer grain considerations to be made in the end patterning. Mostly concerning hand balance and awkward anchor lengths/placement.
160s- 3 note left hand anchor after a 2 note left hand anchor with no alternation between.
162s- Look at the up arrow column in isolation. Then kill it. With fire.
164.16s- What the fuck no I pray to jesus this is a copy paste overlook.

there's a few more but those are the worst offenders


comments on fixes
Ignite (Fanta) - Fixes are good to go. I sent you back some proposed edits to other areas over skype so take a look at them and let me know if they're acceptable.


Nepal (Celirra) - Fixes look good. The only thing worth mentioning now is that the 32nd jump in the minijack section (that I proposed) plays out a little rough. It might be best to just drop the idea of trying to bring life to that heavy bass hit on the 32nd. The minijacks are hard enough that they probably don't need some weird layering scheme muddling how they play out. It's not prominent enough that it becomes obvious why there is something different there. There are some other minor patterns that I have qualms about but I need time to play through the file more so in the mean time I'm going to drop the minijack layering on my copy of the file and let you know if I think anything else needs serious reconsideration. Otherwise good work, this file is significantly better than what you initially sent and I hope you can see that just as well as I.

[SKG_Scintill]

I'd suggest Alice's Dream again then :3

[Celirra]

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace

Itsuwaranai Kimi (Celirra)
Unfortunately after 131s everything is as terrible and uninteresting as before it was brilliant.
I am shocked shocked (shocked) that you chose not to step the 32nd snares as notes and instead use rollds.
There really isn't a good opportunity to cut the song without fading out the few seconds before the transition, which doesn't sound too appealing to me and presumably less so to you. Putting down trills faithful to the snares would likely be way too difficult. You could use super-structured 32nd streams instead. You could also put down 24th trills. Or just drop the rollds and use freezes instead. The problem with the rollds is they make me want to hit 32nd snares and then it just frustrate and bores me that there aren't any and then I just don't even care enough to hit the 8ths during the rollds. Outside the obscene I would pretty much accept anything but this.

I would consider this one of the best submissions so far and were lofty around to sign off on a straight out accept (he probably would), it would make it in spite of the ending- though obviously conditional upon changing it. But lofty is doin that lame ass rl shit so for the time being all considerations to that effect are on hold.

I'm flattered you 're holding this file to such high regard, in spite of a couple rough areas; I'll look into the changes. Admittedly I mostly had the ending as-is due to a combination of having a hard time figuring out what else to put, and thinking to even just cut the ending. I'll look into seeing what I can do and will get a new version to you soon.

edit: converted the rolls to 3/64th trills, more manageable than 32nds, feels like a proper drum roll, and a bit more fitting than 24th rolls. kept the holds though because trilling with holds is fun??
edit2: that's dumb after all, probably just anchor heavy 3/64ths



I agree Nepal is much better now than it was before, thanks a bunch for the help with fixing it up from it's original (very) rough state. Let me know if there's anything else you want changed, for the sake of not crowding your inbox I'll hold off on sending the very minor change to the minijack layering until you've decided if there should be more changes or not.

[James May]

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace

ALONE (James May) - There are a lot of things I like about this chart and a few things I really don't like (mostly due to pattern bias) and a few things that I think should be changed. Before I go into specifics I should say while I think this file could be fixed up for the pack it will never be a strong fit just based on the close-to-auto-reject-stepmanias-music status. Completely independent of pack submission viability the 48ths in the original file you sent me pretty much had to be removed and I think the file is much better for it, but I the file needs enough work and would likely be transformed enough that I would take pause and consider whether or not you want to do it. You might be happier with the file as is and releasing it in another venue.

If you do want to fix up the file for submission the major changes would have to be done to the intro/first half. I'd like to see you make the intro 16ths more interesting either via layering or jacks. I don't really get the rollds usage in the section immediately following and given how much harder the rest of the file gets I'm pretty much mandating that all the rollds be removed and the appropriate 24th/32nd minibursts are placed. The section is empty with the rollds- a confusing kind of emptiness.

82.5s- This part just feels strange. I would expect to be hitting the rollds to the heavy scratch synth in the background but they're going to the foreground melody instead.
132-143s- Layer in the melody on the 8ths.

Assuming you haven't decided you don't want to do any of this yet and then stopped reading, there are also some finer grain considerations to be made in the end patterning. Mostly concerning hand balance and awkward anchor lengths/placement.
160s- 3 note left hand anchor after a 2 note left hand anchor with no alternation between.
162s- Look at the up arrow column in isolation. Then kill it. With fire.
164.16s- What the fuck no I pray to jesus this is a copy paste overlook.

there's a few more but those are the worst offenders

82.5 - removed all the roll freezes and replaced it with 32nds, the parts preceeding it has been replaced with 32nd mini-bursts
132-143 - layered the 8ths as jumps

160 - fixed all instances of that happening
162 - oh god. I did not notice that.
164 - overlooked it. fixed.

layered the intro 16ths as jacks and replaced the 48th roll at the end with a 32nd roll. Will send it to playtest next time.

[Wayward Vagabond]

submitting something short because i don't know what to do for the section after where i stopped but i like what i have so far.

[Wayward Vagabond]

wait where do i even send it

[Celirra]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

wait where do i even send it

ffr pm is what I did

[Wayward Vagabond]

good plan

[MinaciousGrace]

updates incoming

El Gato Volador (Wayward Vagabond) - Song is hilarious, and it'll be nice to have more latin influence to round out the pack. Chart is promising but I see this as draft- no, actually not quite that complete- a rough sketch.

The chart itself has a solid foundation, but in lofty's words "we need to feel the cats". The song is about cats, the chart should be about cats. Go wild (not too wild). Intro needs to be cut in audacity if there are no notes, my rule is 5 seconds before the first note and that's only if the song really doesn't give a good opportunity for an immediate cut to the action, which this does. I can do the cut if you want it doesn't matter. We'd also like to see some more of the song stepped, for example out to ~81s or ~88s. I'll defer more pattern oriented comments until I can feel the cats.


Los Vino (lofty) - Fucking love all the little flourishes that go to the accordion/vocals. Some of the bursts are a little hard/awkward when chained together but I can tweak them. The chorus, despite being passable in isolation, is definitely the weak point of the file. The ending also peters out a little quickly but that can be remedied easily.


promotion time
Ignite (Fanta) - With the last round of fixes you're good to go. I might still request some more after further playtesting but I also may not.
Itsuwaranai Kimi (Celirra) - The ending will probably need some ironing out still but lofty has signed off on this and the new ending is good enough in the interim for a locked spot.
ALONE (James May) - Almost a little surprised lofty signed off on this as quickly as he did (prior to edits). You should PM me the fixes here as I may not be streaming for a couple more days.

[lofty rhino]

SOS (Mina)- First off, great song choice. I think it'll have a good place in the pack when it is completed, assuming acceptance. The very intro 8th jump patterns need to have some variation in them, because as of now, they are all the same; even when pitches change (was this place holder?) 100.733 love the color patterns before this, but that three note grey jack is real ugly, and I'm not hearing the ugliness in that musical section to deem it "justified". 102.812 32nd patterns are very flowy and fun--fits the chorus perfectly, but try to add a bit more variation to them I like the juxtaposition in the 24th section with the tricky runningmen patterns.

Female President (Mina)- I LOVE this. I think you've captured the bouncy essence of Korean POP hey look at all those candy colors and waving hands bullshit with this file. I especially like the musical section at 109.993. Its very hard to make these kind of long jack chains fun, but I find myself actually enjoying the song because of them. Great pattern choice all around. Good job.

Rock Lobster (Mina)- Yea, this file rocks; and what, you want somethin' from me? Honestly, I'm not really even capable of reviewing this shit. A lot of interesting and bubbly symbolism in the aquarium section, lots of attention to sounds that I didn't even hear. One of my favorite Mina files of all that you've done. I think everyone will have a good time with this file, even if they have to play it on a lower rate.

El Gato Volador (Wayward Vagabond)- *Ahem* Cats?

[Wayward Vagabond]

i'll add more cat

[lofty rhino]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

i'll add more cat

I want so much cat that I'll have to blow my whole paycheck on food at pet smart.

[Shadow_God_10]

Since James May is torturing me with suspense for Pre-Parade I'll submit it here. Enjoy jumpstream and weeaboo music? Good because that's what's coming for you

[dadcop2]

Originally Posted by Shadow_God_10

Since James May is torturing me with suspense for Pre-Parade I'll submit it here. Enjoy jumpstream and weeaboo music? Good because that's what's coming for you

l m f a o

[James May]

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace

ALONE (James May) - Almost a little surprised lofty signed off on this as quickly as he did (prior to edits). You should PM me the fixes here as I may not be streaming for a couple more days.

Oh sweet, that surprised me as well haha. I'll PM it to you in the morning Mina.

@ShadowGod: expect a review for that tomorrow

[Shadow_God_10]

Originally Posted by James May

@ShadowGod: expect a review for that tomorrow

HALLELUJAH THERE IS A GOD AFTER ALL <3

[MinaciousGrace]

Originally Posted by Shadow_God_10

Enjoy jumpstream and weeaboo music?

you had better be sure about this because i'm going to be unapologetically brutal if i get something i don't like after repeatedly stating what i am and am not looking for

and i'm the nice one