FFR File Submission Tips

[DossarLX ODI]

From FFR submission experience, I have decided to make a guide on what is not recommended in FFR file submissions.

Things to keep in mind about FFR are:
- Combo based scoring (this is a big one)
- The game runs at 30 FPS, meaning that anything above 150 bpm 16ths risks being 2 frames apart, anything above 225 bpm 16th notes risks being 1 frame apart and anything above 450 bpm 16ths risks being zero frames apart.
- FFR does not have chord cohesion, meaning that a jump does not register after you hit the second note of the jump. This is what causes "splitting" - you can get a perfect and a good on a single jump from hitting it as a gallop.
- BOOS. Nobody likes boos when they're going for score.

1. Don't put any arrow in the same column above 225 bpm 16th speed.

Anything above 225 bpm 16ths risks a 1-frame placement. Files that lucked out from this are Big Blue (226 BPM 16th minijacks), Sparkle Downer (293.44 BPM 16th minijack), and Over The Ocean (around 255 bpm 16th minijack). Don't test your luck with the converter. This of course also causes a huge problem when you have a longer jack (Crowdpleaser being the best example, the 64th trill is a massive 2 frame jack glut with a 1 framer in between, making it a lot more harder).

Sparkle Downer had a very lucky break.


RATO, which is *only* 240 bpm 16th minijacks, wasn't quite so lucky. Only 15 bpm over and it made this mess.




2. Check for hidden jacks/severe one-hand bias.

I'm going to use hi19hi19's post here from the batch thread since it basically explains this very effectively.

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I've been using that theory of hidden 8th jacks in JS ever since I was working on Boisterous Little Oscillator (and I'm sure others have had that notion before me too) but it's nice to finally have a name for it lol

The other source of awkward JS is hidden 1-hand gallops.
If you cover side of the file and just look at them hand by hand, if you have stuff like 1 2 - 2 1 - 1 2 - 2 1 over and over again, it's going to get annoying fast

Even if you're going for jumpstream, jumpstream *CAN* contain annoying jacks that are "hidden". Here's an example, with the light blue rectangle showing the jack that exists:



One-hand bias refers to how much stress a file puts on awkward movements from one hand. An example is my Abyssal file which had "stream" that didn't play like a stream - instead, it played like a lot of awkward minijacks and gallops.

Notice how in the other song there were "hidden" jacks, there are minijacks here which make for very awkward transitions. A fluent stream is not heavy with movements stressed on one hand. In this picture, you can see there is a lot more going on with the right hand than there is with the left.


3. Combo Based Scoring and Boos

Files with jackhammers put more importance on how much you can keep up with the jacks in combo based scoring. Jacks that are too fast, too long, or a combination of both will make comboing those parts a huge burden - and not being able to combo them ruins your chances of getting a much better score.

Keeping boos in mind is also important. This picture of do i smile is an example of a section that has a hidden long jack, is pretty fast/annoying to combo, and has has a bootrap along with an awkward start.
The 4th note makes the "jumptrill" weird because you can't actually hit a jump until you hit the quarter note, otherwise your jumps will split averages on the up arrows after. The way this part is stepped makes the player want to think it's a jumptrill leading into a 4-note 16th jack, but in really it's actually a pretty long jack. And it's pretty fast too, which makes it a lot more irritating to transition from a jumptrill to the rest of the jack without getting a boo.



There is still more that can be added to this, but for now this is a good start.

[who_cares973]

lets make all ffr files look and play the same

[Anaru]

Nice.

Now I need to rethink those 64ths and 48ths in my 145 bpm file..

[stargroup100]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

lets make all ffr files look and play the same

been that way for several years now, not gonna change

also, didn't ffr take out the jack problem a while back? or are you just telling people to avoid them simply because they are annoying? because they are

[who_cares973]

he's saying to keep in mind the framers caused by jacks at a certain bpm

[jimerax]

interesting pattern assessment.

yeah avmiss issues caused by framers are solved, still awkwardness from random jacky pattern choice can be avoided.

I think that boo-trap is an interesting feature sometimes, though (jump-trilling won't solve everything).

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

I'd like to [try to] add something.

Everyone in the Team Blaze chat I'm sure has heard me pick at this specific little thing time and time again when discussing stepping.

In Fall Silently, you at times are so overtly technical it's hilarious when in comparison to the times you under-step a section and still mess it up horribly.

I am referring to the absolutely moronic jump trill before the dubstep section of the song actually comes in with that absolutely awful jump trill with those stupidly placed 32nds.

A screen shot of what I am referring to:


PS: Before some idiotic jack ass who's full of shit says I am complaining about it because I'm bad at it (typical shitty poorly structured argument) I want you to sit back and actually look at that chart. It bounces from being a mix between being very technical (mostly in reference to the ending) to trying to combine technicality with under charting which in the case of this ONE section was done poorly. I actually have kinda come to like the song but I become very agitated when people do little things like this in charts.

I think if people left this sort of stupid thing out charts would flow a lot better instead of trying to mess with your head.

I am not saying the chart as a whole is bad, I'm just saying this one small section should have been reworked to flow properly. If it doesn't flow well, then chances are the judges aren't going to like it. (I hope.)

[who_cares973]

thats more personal preference midnight

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

thats more personal preference midnight

I don't feel as if this one small section was a personal preference. But eh. I just saw the "boo magnet" section in dossar's OP and this one section came to mind because it's a in short terms mess up magnet if you asked me.

On a side note, if it was me who had done that section I would have used a generic jumpstream. When it comes to this chart, it's remarkibly simple to read but annoyingly difficult to execute, but with that one section it just kinda leaves a lot of room for mind blocks, boo flags ect. Very similar to the intro of Rottel if you asked me.

Food for thought I guess.

[who_cares973]

bootraps really shouldnt be taken into consideration when stepping a file unless you're doing something like 234123234123234 64th rolls at 200 bpm. generally though bootraps are easily avoidable and dont really cause many problems on plays other than sightreads or after constant whoring but then it becomes the players fault and not the stepartists.

while that jump pattern you pointed out is annoying and it couldve been stepped a different more flow-y way it isnt wrong and it doesnt detract much value from the file in a technical sense.

[hi19hi19]

I am writing a longer post about FFR patterns. Maybe I'll get around to finishing it one day.
This post is a good start. I really wish people would pay more attention to their pattern choices.
It's not a case of "make all files the same" as you can still do plenty of interesting things while still actually being fun to play.

[who_cares973]

in the end all files will be rolls

[icontrolyourworld]

Honestly jacks and bursts suck, i almost never use them xD

[iironiic]

I like this thread. Glad to see this. I wish nearly all of your files in the Indeed Engine considered this though ;(

The boo trap section is more of a tip for the players. Steppers can essentially step what is appropriate, so you can't really ask us not to choose similar patterns like do I smile? Same applies with your second tip. However, it is annoying to deal with those patterns. The best files are the ones that emphasizes variety of patterns in a playable manner.

The first tip is really really important though. If the file is not playable under the conversion of FFR, what's the point in playing that file? (This is why I discourage dumps anywhere on a FFR engine) Even though step artists are open to many choices of patterns to use, they are somewhat limited in a sense. We all should keep this in mind.

EDIT: If people are going to suggest step artists to quit stepping this pattern or that pattern, then eventually what Carlos said is right. FFR will be a rollololol fest.

[YoshL]

The only problem i have with judges considering the framer conversion of files is that, many will just assume that the file will have horrible framers. Maybe there could be a way to test this out somehow so files don't/do get hurt because of assumed conversion problems

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by YOSHl

The only problem i have with judges considering the framer conversion of files is that, many will just assume that the file will have horrible framers. Maybe there could be a way to test this out somehow so files don't/do get hurt because of assumed conversion problems

Id assume the reasoning behind this is that we don't have the time/desire to convert these files ourselves for the sake of FFR. I really wish that judging was done on a separate FFR engine instead of SM since the file is going to be judged by the public via FFR. The admins are probably busy themselves though so this idea won't be considered for a very long time.

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by YOSHl

The only problem i have with judges considering the framer conversion of files is that, many will just assume that the file will have horrible framers. Maybe there could be a way to test this out somehow so files don't/do get hurt because of assumed conversion problems

if i had the time to convert every file submitted i would but thats a ridiculous amount of time wasted just to do a quick check of the file

Originally Posted by iironiic

Id assume the reasoning behind this is that we don't have the time/desire to convert these files ourselves for the sake of FFR. I really wish that judging was done on a separate FFR engine instead of SM since the file is going to be judged by the public via FFR. The admins are probably busy themselves though so this idea won't be considered for a very long time.

the only problem with this is that unless the files are able to be added to ffr in groups without having to worry about adjusting offsets or anything and the files are also available to test in sm then it just wont work.

[hi19hi19]

I'm hand-editing any bad framer gaps in all my tournament files. That's 40+ files, and it only takes me like 10 minutes per file to make any changes at this point.

Honestly it's not that hard, everyone is just lazy/hasn't actually tried doing it.

[who_cares973]

5-8 minutes to convert a file
usual batch is 80-100 files

**** that

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

lets make all ffr files look and play the same

If all fun files look and play the same, then I am OK with all FFR files playing the same.

Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX

I don't feel as if this one small section was a personal preference.

And yet you're the only one who is angry enough about it to type up a multi-paragraph rant It's fine if a few parts of a song are tricky to PA, then it just requires more skill/concentration to nail it... but having a few parts of a song being really tricky to FC make it a lot more annoying to players.

Originally Posted by iironiic

I like this thread. Glad to see this. I wish nearly all of your files in the Indeed Engine considered this though ;(

Same, but then again, a lot of Dossar's offline-FFR charts are mainly intended to be super difficult, as opposed to really fun to score on. I'd rather compete on an awkward file for a week and be done with it than have it rotting in my levelranks for all eternity

Originally Posted by iironiic

I really wish that judging was done on a separate FFR engine instead of SM since the file is going to be judged by the public via FFR.

Okay, this is actually a super awesome idea, and I wish I had thought of it. This would get rid of ddream bias ("it's 8ms off! you lose points for syncing by ear!") and complaints about patterns being technically wrong on 0.4x rate, and also make judges look at how a file actually feels to play/score on over just how technically accurate it is. I also really like that the judges would be grading against the same thing that players would actually see later on.