Communism is bad?

[kommisar]

Given the history of communism, it's pretty much all it's been about.

Too much power given

[RB_Quackies]

Basically communism is just total and utter rule by the government, for "the good of the country as a whole". Even if that includes wasting a few lives on the way. To answer your question, "How does communism kill its people?" It's basically communism (in malpractice) may spark revolts, (or revolution attempts, which is happening in China right now) and the government will kill as many as they have to to stop it. Without regard for them whatsoever, as long as it's to stop a revolution.

As far as communism goes, the basic ideas of it, pretty much to have a plan for your entire life, everyone is promised a job, place to live, and food pretty much for life; as long as they are loyal to the country. Sounds pretty good, right? Well, in reality, it is, only without power hungry leaders. Marxism, which is the original based communism follows almost perfect rules in a Utopian society where everybody is equal, and nobody is left down in the dumps, to contradict with laissez-faire economics, or "let it be" capitalism.

To correlate communism with China in more recent days is a little bit off, because they have been much more lenient with business in the past 10 years, and are pretty much shifting into a socialism-Marxism type of government. However, America on the other hand, "land of the free" has shifted from pure laissez-faire capitalism (absolutely no health care restrictions, minimum wage, worker benefits, NOTHING besides what's best for the business) has slowly been becoming otherwise. Our 3 republican presidents of the booming 20's, Harding, Coolidge and Hoover, established this as "The business of America, is business" and basically, ever since then, we've been drifting towards what people consider "communism" and that is, to end where I started off, total and utter control by the government.

I hope I answered at least some questions you might have

Edit: DAMNIT KOMMI I HATE YOUR SIGNATURE

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Communism is good on paper and in theory, just terrible in execution.

[bmah]

Originally Posted by RB_Quackies

However, America on the other hand, "land of the free" has shifted from pure laissez-faire capitalism (absolutely no health care restrictions, minimum wage, worker benefits, NOTHING besides what's best for the business) has slowly been becoming otherwise. Our 3 republican presidents of the booming 20's, Harding, Coolidge and Hoover, established this as "The business of America, is business" and basically, ever since then, we've been drifting towards what people consider "communism"

Yes, this is what I meant earlier when referring to people who don't know what communism is. America has been so ingrained into pure capitalism that many people would consider a slight bit of control from the government as a communist act (and instant misuse of the word thereof). Maybe it's time to incorporate a healthy mix of both ideologies instead.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by RB_Quackies

Basically communism is just total and utter rule by the government, for "the good of the country as a whole". Even if that includes wasting a few lives on the way. To answer your question, "How does communism kill its people?" It's basically communism (in malpractice) may spark revolts, (or revolution attempts, which is happening in China right now) and the government will kill as many as they have to to stop it. Without regard for them whatsoever, as long as it's to stop a revolution.

As far as communism goes, the basic ideas of it, pretty much to have a plan for your entire life, everyone is promised a job, place to live, and food pretty much for life; as long as they are loyal to the country. Sounds pretty good, right? Well, in reality, it is, only without power hungry leaders. Marxism, which is the original based communism follows almost perfect rules in a Utopian society where everybody is equal, and nobody is left down in the dumps, to contradict with laissez-faire economics, or "let it be" capitalism.

To correlate communism with China in more recent days is a little bit off, because they have been much more lenient with business in the past 10 years, and are pretty much shifting into a socialism-Marxism type of government. However, America on the other hand, "land of the free" has shifted from pure laissez-faire capitalism (absolutely no health care restrictions, minimum wage, worker benefits, NOTHING besides what's best for the business) has slowly been becoming otherwise. Our 3 republican presidents of the booming 20's, Harding, Coolidge and Hoover, established this as "The business of America, is business" and basically, ever since then, we've been drifting towards what people consider "communism" and that is, to end where I started off, total and utter control by the government.

I hope I answered at least some questions you might have

Edit: DAMNIT KOMMI I HATE YOUR SIGNATURE

However, this doesn't answer the details I'm looking for, though it does answer some of the questions I've had. Where did you get your information, by the way? How do you know your basis for information isn't skewed? I want to see sources as well to back some of the claims, and I want some opinions which are clearly presented in your statements, but I want some more clearly defined opinions as well. Does that make sense or am I being unclear, because I've always had a problem with being unable to express myself in a way people understand.

[bmah]

What exactly are you looking for...

[vvav]

Communism's theory and practice don't mesh, to me at least. Marx's proletarian uprising is exactly what happens when communism is actually put into place, bringing about supreme irony when a communist regime represses people attempting to enact the ruling regime's own theory. Communists have pretty well ****ered their own theory by taking the bourgeoisie out of power and then placing new leaders in their place, who are just as bad as the last ones. Marxism at its core really shouldn't be about totalitarianism. It should be the opposite, really, with the actual people ruling. It just never turns out that way in real communist countries. I think we just naturally set people up as leaders because that's the way our social system has evolved; there will be no such thing as a true workers' state as long as we ourselves are human.

Not trying to talk shit about communism, though. I like the idea of communism, but I have doubts about its practicality. The human race has spent too many millions of years ****ing each other over to suddenly start living in a fair and equal society. I'd love to be proven wrong.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by bmah

What exactly are you looking for...

Well, you know how Quackies said people died from Communism because they were killing the people who were revolting? What exactly had started these revolts, or what is believed (believed that started them)? I also want to know what some of you guys think about some of the things going on in these countries and how they handle them.

From what I heard from somebody, China is doing a good job to keep a relatively peaceful environment over there. Also, I feel like people say things about other countries as if all that is behind it is the "power hungry" and "greedy." To allow such power to rise, a condition must be set for it to happen, right? What are some theories about why it is allowed to happen if it's so bad? I kind of want a little bit of history mixed with some of the current stuff... and I can't think so well because it's noisy here 24/7 so I may have made some confusing statements. Sorry.

[Wineandbread]

China's not really very much Communist at all actually, from what I hear. They just declare that they are.

I won't echo everything that people have already said, but human nature will never allow for communism to work "ideally".

[RB_Quackies]

Originally Posted by ~kitty~

However, this doesn't answer the details I'm looking for, though it does answer some of the questions I've had. Where did you get your information, by the way? How do you know your basis for information isn't skewed? I want to see sources as well to back some of the claims, and I want some opinions which are clearly presented in your statements, but I want some more clearly defined opinions as well. Does that make sense or am I being unclear, because I've always had a problem with being unable to express myself in a way people understand.

My information comes from studying under (in private lessons) Mr. Lipchitz (Joseph) and Mrs. Chen (Shehong), department head of history at UMass Lowell, and then head professor of U.S. and Chinese History at UMass Lowell. As well as reading a lot about the 1920's into 1930's for the history on Laissez-faire economics. For information on a general basis, I use Sirs database, which requires a paid subscription therefore I can't cite anything directly and apologize for that. Honestly, there's not too much room to go for information being skewed or altered, because I'm basing most information on current events relating to the definitions of communism, marxism and capitalism. However, what exactly are you looking for opinions on? You've asked a few questions and I've tried my best to answer to my ability, but let's get to the heart of them.

Originally Posted by ~kitty~

Well, you know how Quackies said people died from Communism because they were killing the people who were revolting? What exactly had started these revolts, or what is believed (believed that started them)? I also want to know what some of you guys think about some of the things going on in these countries and how they handle them.

From what I heard from somebody, China is doing a good job to keep a relatively peaceful environment over there. Also, I feel like people say things about other countries as if all that is behind it is the "power hungry" and "greedy." To allow such power to rise, a condition must be set for it to happen, right? What are some theories about why it is allowed to happen if it's so bad? I kind of want a little bit of history mixed with some of the current stuff... and I can't think so well because it's noisy here 24/7 so I may have made some confusing statements. Sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUw7P-WCnUk

^ for China, and their culture; this is EXTREMELY unruly, almost unbelievable riots, similar to the SWAT team killing hundreds of people on the streets in America (things are a lot worse over here), so trust me, it is not peaceful in China you're thinking of Japan, which is dealing incredibly well with their situation, and there has not been one riot or revolt, and the country still has the lowest crime rate in the world; even in a dire situation for food (so Japan is the calm one, not so much China, as it was in the 50's - 60').

I will say countries have a power hungry and greedy government wherever it's necessary and truthful, not only about others. I would probably say that our government is definitely the most greedy, and places like Libya, China, and North Korea's are terribly terribly power hungry dictatorships. However, a situation doesn't really need to be set for China, seeing as how it dates back to emperors ruling in their dynasties (sometimes lasting up to 600 years in a family line! The same is with Japan, but more honor and less hostility towards current leaders). So as far as a situation being set for power to rise, it didn't necessarily need to because the position was already there, just with technological and economical advancements of the late 20th century corrupted many positions more than it should have.

Since many leaders have been being overturned (Egypt, Libya) in extremely large rebellions, the Chinese government has been worrying that the same is going to happen to them, but Francis Fukuyama from the Wall Street Journal gives reasons why China isn't ready to revolt yet, one being "For one thing, China is more clever and ruthless in its approach to repression". The overall jist of the entire article (which I will link) is referring to the ruthless government of the Chinese, which in the past 15 years especially has displayed that the living standards (and the lives) of the common-people does not matter.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read

I hope this post finishes off the rest of your questions, and if not; please be specific and thorough in asking (and list the questions) so I can have an orderly way of answering them, if I can.

[bmah]

I've been to China twice. It's hard to get a real understanding of China since they really want tourists to ignore/be blind about certain aspects of the country they don't want you to see.

I'd say it depends on where you go, what's your status, and what you do. The government is certainly improving, but there are still many shady aspects.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by RB_Quackies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUw7P-WCnUk



I hope this post finishes off the rest of your questions, and if not; please be specific and thorough in asking (and list the questions) so I can have an orderly way of answering them, if I can.

Okay, the video clears up a lot of what I wanted to know. I see both sides now with a more clear scope now.

The other side that supports the Chinese government says that the Chinese government uses the "Military" force to retain the revolts as to keep the general "peace" in China, because a revolt can lead to huge amounts of violence, especially because of the population size of China. However, another side (probably mostly Americans) say that it is an unnecessary use of force, right?

I think I see what's going on now, but I still want to know more, and more opinions on what people feel about the practices of Communism in countries such as China and Korea. Please include other Communist countries as well, because I know even less about the others. I don't like when people bash other countries with ignorance. I want to be able to have a stance while knowing the right stuff, and I also want to know how people think about these topics on both sides.

[RB_Quackies]

Most people see it as an unnecessary use of force, yes. As it stands, average annual salary in China is about $21,000 (in a good standard). Pretty much, what is considered very low class to poor house in America (for 2-3 people) is what 8-10 people live in in China, without heat/air conditioning etc. Those are generally the wealthier ones, too. However people who live in major cities, like the capital are usually a little bit better off in terms of living standards, but still nothing like here at all.

Basically the communist fundamentals where you have a job, house, and food for life still stand, it's a safe assumption to say that the Chinese people are now realizing (because of the American economy monopolizing their workers) that it is not enough, and they are revolting for a democracy.

I don't know too too much about others, as I didn't study asian/african modern too much, mainly the history and cultures of them. However, Chinese government was never releasing the fact that we're basically at our hands and knees to China, seeing as how we owe them almost $14.5 trillion dollars in debt. However, it is now starting to come out more openly in public through BBC and Voice of America (odd, that's the same way the Russian people found out about Chernobyl, Voice of America. The government didn't explain to their people that there was a massive nuclear explosion, a satellite caught the mushroom cloud and a large gaping hole and reported it). That's a different story though.

Up until here, I've used my knowledge from what I've learned in studies, in this last message I've made radical decisions overlooking both sides, and pretty much came to a conclusion that the Chinese people want more from their government, knowing that it's the largest growing economy in our world; and the government refuses to accept any changes. In my honest opinion, there have been and will be attempts at a Chinese Revolution, but it will never happen, because the Chinese government simply doesn't care how many people they have to eliminate to bring back order. On topics of other countries, I can't help you too much. Korea, Libya and Egypt I would consider more of dictatorships than communist, and in retrospect, communism has slowly been dying out of countries, mainly for socialism and capitalism (respectively, in numbers). In a nutshell, there just aren't many completely communist countries anymore, and if there are, there's few and they are definitely small, in world standings that is, because they don't make any type of headlines.

I hope I've been a help, and I hope you can find out anything else you're looking to learn about it.

[devonin]

China hasn't actually operated under communist principles for decades. There has never been an -actual- communist state in the entire history of the modern world. Cuba under early Castro is about the closest and even it missed the mark.

Judging communism by ANY currently functioning state claiming to be communist is to completely misunderstand how communism is supposed to run.

[kommisar]

The best systems in any wealthy educated country is always a mix of socialism/capitalism since you do need both. Universal health care should be a standard in any developed country.

Americans criticize a lot of countries for being "communist" because they offer lots of social services, or have situations such as China. It's like they're afraid of the word or something.

[MrReincarnatix]

China today isn't communist in the strictest sense -- it certainly has many communist elements (namely in the government), but there have been many capitalist implementations (primarily regarding open markets and private rights). I might classify China as a capitalist authoritarian society.

[Vendetta21]

Extreme leftism has legitimate philosophical and scientific roots, while also accepting the fact that every incarnation it experiences is doomed to failure. Capitalism is a system that erupted spontaneously, being a system that basically destroys friction in markets over time. But capitalism produces some grotesque things, and doesn't really seem to care that much about the well-being of people.

Leftism (socialism, communism) is about trying to implement economic structures that are centered around humanistic ideals periodically, which will appear, fail, and then appear again. It is not characterized by being an efficient system or self-sustaining, but a system of necessity. Part of the idea is that even if you succesfully implement a socialist or communist measure the natural course of capitalism will wear away at it over time, and so it won't have permanence.

A good book to read to understand where these people are coming from is First As Tragedy, Then As Farce by Slavoj Zizek. It's not the easiest philosophy in the world to get behind, but most of what people think about modern communism is wrong and so trying to understand it is interesting.

[~kitty~]

Okay, a lot of my questions have been answered now, but one question that I need to have answered for the sake of my personal comfort at home is, "How does Communism 'deny God's existence'?" Personally, I'm not really someone who cares much about "God," however, I live in an environment where I'm constantly nagged about a God, so I just kind of want to know why people think this so I can feel more comfortable. I don't know if there's any legitimacy behind the claim or not, or if it refers to Marxism and the idea of abolishing established Religions... I don't know if I'm making any sense anymore.

[MrReincarnatix]

Originally Posted by ~kitty~

Okay, a lot of my questions have been answered now, but one question that I need to have answered for the sake of my personal comfort at home is, "How does Communism 'deny God's existence'?" Personally, I'm not really someone who cares much about "God," however, I live in an environment where I'm constantly nagged about a God, so I just kind of want to know why people think this so I can feel more comfortable. I don't know if there's any legitimacy behind the claim or not, or if it refers to Marxism and the idea of abolishing established Religions... I don't know if I'm making any sense anymore.

Short answer: No, communism is an ideological/political/societal/economic system and doesn't (fundamentally) say anything about religion.

However, again, in practice, communist systems have typically tried to suppress religion due to its nature as a method of societal control. Having a religion meant there's a chance of holding your God as an authority above the government's. As a result, religion was strongly discouraged because they basically wanted you to place your life's meaning in the context of the society itself and not the supernatural. Karl Marx has famously cited religion as an "opiate of the masses" that detracted people's time and energy away from progress. Questioning the communist government was seen as a huge problem. The government was concerned with what's called a sort of "partinost," or a commitment to the working-class cause -- and the belief that everything the party does is correct.

Stalin, when he was young, was a priest-in-training himself -- and he knew the power of religion. He felt that that kind of power would not mesh well with communist rule. You only served one master -- you were only loyal, devoted, and committed to one entity.

[Calcium Deposit]

Isn't Star Trek communist?