Calling upon community input, advice, and perspective

[Jetfire300]

Hi, thank you for taking the time to stop by to read this. I've exhausted the productive outlet options that I can openly, and willingly, speak about this to. I'd be very meaningful to me, personally, to hear any input/counsel you might have to offer about what I'm sharing. In essence, my current line of inquiry/thoughts are unsettling/worrisome to me and have skewed my perception towards alarm and purposelessness.

I'm currently career EMS and there's nothing I want nothing more than to expand into firefighting. There is no acceptable future where I envision failing to earn my spot there. I am currently in the process with several Fire & Rescue agencies, and so that has been my focus for the past 3 months. The order of candidate procession is a (borderline pervasive) personal history statement, written exam, IAFF CPAT, polygraph, psychiatric & physical health screening, and fire panel interview. I've made it to the final selection group with my first choice agency and am scheduled to undergo their psychiatric evaluation, which I believe I will fail with absolute certainty. My full attention is on the fact that I suspect I am a hilariously poor fit due to various possible underlying psychological conditions and personal observations that I am very concerned are indicators of possible future warning signs.

It is not my intention, nor desire to employ an attempt at deception or an otherwise disingenuous persona to bypass this. I would rather cast aside career fire if I do not even possess the requisite qualities in me to begin with; although I refuse to accept that at this time and try to maintain optimism that I do have what it takes. Furthermore, it would also be beyond reckless and arrogant to believe that a doctor could be fooled by any of that. That is not to say that many career folks have successfully manipulated favorable outcomes within their processes to earn their posts at varying degrees of long-term success.

To prepare, I started researching the logistics pretty comprehensively to plan out my strategy. I will be required to answer a 400-500 item DSM-5-TR psychiatric questionnaire at the department psychiatrist's office. Followed by an interview with the mentioned psychiatrist where they will dig for discrepancies in my responses, in addition to baiting reactions that reveal previously undetected disqualifying aptitude qualifiers. It is apparently an all day commitment. I have also taken note, with reservations, about the numerous war stories I've heard/read about from previous candidates who were DQed at this stage.

I don’t mean to cast any aspersions in saying that fire agencies are borderline exclusionary on the career side. I agree with it. It's for good reason and it's probably written in blood that some are born for this while other's are not. The FD uses a lot of resources to seek out a specific personality profile. Extremely extroverted, extremely agreeable, and extremely conscientious. Basically they are looking for a extremely reliable people pleaser, loves to talk, and make friends. Who also loves to work teams, hates being late, hates being unorganized and always keeps their promises. It is in the design of the process and tests in of themselves to discriminate against you when you display even slightly introverted propensities to ultimately screen those candidates out in favor on the former. Scoring as this psychological profile with those qualities (evidently just having this affect as apart of your individual) seems to be a fringe hard requirement to my knowledge.

A psychiatrist I was consulting informally identified PTSD, Cognitive Dissociative Disorder, and generalized depression symptoms 3 years prior. I don't think I knew how or was equipped with the means to appropriately address this information head on and I have just been been getting by using my own life long strategies.

The present circumstances necessitate that I deal with and attempt to resolve/mitigate this in earnest. This is an impossible task and not something that can simply be "fixed" right away. It is also something that I can only work towards and gradually improve upon over time. And yet, this is who I am as person and I will not shy away of that. I'm proud that I'm as well adjusted to my surroundings as I am and of the efforts I made to restructure my old attitude and mentality.

All that aside, I feel very confident in my other aspects that will be evaluated. The issue is that I am very aware that I have developed maladaptive strategies and mannerisms to get by and these will overshadow any positive qualities. There is a depth to these behaviors that I do not have the expertise to comprehend and what might be seen as acceptable and what isn't. Everyone naturally owns their personal set of adversity and difficulties, so I question the extent of transparency that can be given? And at what extent does it talk yourself out of a dream job by echoing the phrase that "straightforward honesty is no virtue"?

I have the general belief that most people are self-motivated and remain skeptical on the existence of true altruism in our society. I'm primarily introverted, which place a lot of effort to offset by forcing extroverted affect and practicing it. My personal philosophies, especially on concepts I have put a lot of time, effort, and thought towards, are relatively hard for me to augment. These are all problematic beliefs that I have.

My old way of going about my life when I was younger still holds a profound impact on my mind in all of its anti-social faculties, and likely always will. Unbeknownst to all, I was caught up in a lifestyle involving various illicit activities until my early 20's. I had issues with substance abuse in the past as well. I lived by a very misguided set of principles and it's caught up to me in the sense that this is all information that I can never share with anyone and need to actively conceal. These are a huge no-no in the fire service. In the interest of context, I can offer a PHS statement I had submitted that ended in my immediate disqualification in one process. Wrong time for truth serum.

"I will speak my mind and heart in as much detail as possible without reservations. I will not shy away from any value judgements on myself as an individual. Frankly, I had no concept of meaningful life purpose until I started working in EMS. My circumspect expression in the following statement is to preserve impartiality in contextualizing the inquiry. Every aspect of my development was founded on the inescapable parameters of academic performance, prestige, relative peer superiority, and public adulation to fulfill the function of judging my individual worth; my results dictated my treatment. I remember feeling I had run out of options while tolerating what seemed an unending state of psychological duress. I became despondent towards my own life and was unbothered using antisocial behavior as a conduit for frustration. Still, my fear of the consequences deterred from getting caught. My grades were sufficient for entry to university. I felt profound anger and detachment at this time. I had the polarized ideology to succeed at any cost and proclaimed, from that point onwards, that my accolades would be so extraordinary to the extent that they would reach across the world. I set out with the presupposition that acceptance and validity would come afterwards and achieved a strong performance record on paper at severe personal expense. My attempt at starting a career using an identical mindset was destined towards feelings of futility and emptiness. In that context, I'm usually limited to feelings of self-gratification and satisfaction at a job well done, proportional to the task difficulty. So it's hard for me to to distinguish between the two from authentic happiness. But I also want to be very clear that I will never lose the ideal that I will someday achieve happiness with some degree of permanence. Currently, I've also made finding reasons to be happy as a full time job."

In summary, I've deliberately withheld information that would immediately disqualify me in all my other active processes from the lesson I learned by sharing too much with that other agency. It's a miracle in of itself that I even made it through a lie detector. I have serious self doubts about this even being something that I can ever achieve and whether I have no other choice but to essentially believe in, and live a lie about my life to cheat. And whether it's worth the risk of eventually questioning everything that comes further down the line if I find success by being something that I simply am not. I think it's dangerous ideology and not something I'd like to deliberate.

Apologies, I realize that this may be an upsetting thing to read. I am taking more serious consideration towards the choice of suicide depending on the outcomes of what I have currently and near future. I don't think I'd be willing to perceive any further purpose in my life if I fail at this. I can confidently say that I truly don't care to search for/discover more meaning or reasons to live. I have no desire to continue perpetuating the motions towards what I see as a dead end career-wise (private EMS agencies) and I've reached a point where I'd be content to put a period on whatever the heck this was in the first place. My desire is to see out one more round of attempts if this round does not go as planned.

Thanks for providing the platform for me to write all this. It's been immensely helpful to get this all off my chest. This was quite a long read so thank you for staying with it. Thank you in advance to those with insight or absolutely anything in general to contribute.

[roundbox]

I think it's fair to not want to lie to pass the test and feel like you're living disingenuously. However, I think putting suicide as an option over any other career path is not considering all of your options. It seems like you've considered all of your options within the field of EMS as you mentioned the dead end routes, but affixing yourself to such a rigid path with little room for failure is only amplifying your stress around the situation. You don't want to jeopardize a potentially successful procession because you're thinking that suicide is a possible route in the event of failure. People change careers, and I'm not expecting you to force a change in yourself to do this since that too would be disingenuous, but you've still got lots of time in your life to see how you can take your calling to help others and reflect it down another path.

I wish you the best.

[gold stinger]

So, a couple of things.

You have a genuinely good thought process for acknowledging the issues that you are facing, taking note of them, and potentially trying to work towards a fix for them. A long-time living quote that I've personally lived by, is that "the first step to fixing a problem, is acknowledging that you have a problem to begin with". This is because there are just so many situations out there in the world where people do not acknowledge their own behavioral issues or problems that they create in day-to-day life since they're so engraved with who they are as a person and their day-to-day routine, that they never notice or acknowledge it as being a problem. You have acknowledged this, and have reached out to a Psychiatrist about it in the past. I think it would be worth reaching out to the same Psychiatrist about possibly some other thoughts that you've brought up in this thread as well, to help address specifically why you may feel that suicide is a best decision in a worst-case scenario, because it is not. The fact that you can diagnose issues and work towards remedying them means that you can always try it again with a few more issues fixed and see if that works instead of giving up because you don't know what the issue is or why something is not working.

I am not familiar on the selection process for firefighters but it seems like you've done a lot of reading and research into the position. I will say that it is very common that people will look for the absolute best-fitting role for any work or job occupation position in the work force, but also that rarely anyone can fit as a 'perfect role model' when it comes to said job occupation. Not everyone on the firefighting team is going to be that stereotypical 6-pack muscle-hauling, bench-pressing macho man without a shirt 24/7 that make the women giggle when they flex, and also have zero fear of fire or death. There's also a lot of training that goes in after hiring to make people full-fledged firefighters if I recall correctly as well, so it seems just a bit disingenuous to try to have yourself live up to the full potential of what makes the perfect firefighter, and that may be stacking against yourself with extra stress as you try to make it through these tests and exams for your application.

I understand that you feel like lying in order to bypass a lot of your current issues (especially given you've tried telling the truth in the past and been shut down by it before), but as long as you keep in mind that you're actively working on those issues to better them, I personally think a bit of lying is ok (tautly dubbed the 'white-lie'). You also don't need to tell anyone you're doing tests/exams with the full story. You can simply leave it at "I'm seeking help on it and actively exploring solutions to it" or "working towards fixes with a therapist" if it comes push to shove.

I hope what I explained here gives some thought and deliberation about why suicide shouldn't be a last-end option, because you really do have a strong mind for acknowledging issues and finding fixes. Hopefully a better answer here than simply just 'suicide bad, see a professional'. You have the ability to make meaningful gains and solutions as a problem-solver, and I think that would be an incredible skill to bring over into firefighting, as many are required to think on the fly with the scenario and the landscape changing around them.

[Jetfire300]

Originally Posted by gold stinger

So, a couple of things.

You have a genuinely good thought process for acknowledging the issues that you are facing, taking note of them, and potentially trying to work towards a fix for them. A long-time living quote that I've personally lived by, is that "the first step to fixing a problem, is acknowledging that you have a problem to begin with". This is because there are just so many situations out there in the world where people do not acknowledge their own behavioral issues or problems that they create in day-to-day life since they're so engraved with who they are as a person and their day-to-day routine, that they never notice or acknowledge it as being a problem. You have acknowledged this, and have reached out to a Psychiatrist about it in the past. I think it would be worth reaching out to the same Psychiatrist about possibly some other thoughts that you've brought up in this thread as well, to help address specifically why you may feel that suicide is a best decision in a worst-case scenario, because it is not. The fact that you can diagnose issues and work towards remedying them means that you can always try it again with a few more issues fixed and see if that works instead of giving up because you don't know what the issue is or why something is not working.

I am not familiar on the selection process for firefighters but it seems like you've done a lot of reading and research into the position. I will say that it is very common that people will look for the absolute best-fitting role for any work or job occupation position in the work force, but also that rarely anyone can fit as a 'perfect role model' when it comes to said job occupation. Not everyone on the firefighting team is going to be that stereotypical 6-pack muscle-hauling, bench-pressing macho man without a shirt 24/7 that make the women giggle when they flex, and also have zero fear of fire or death. There's also a lot of training that goes in after hiring to make people full-fledged firefighters if I recall correctly as well, so it seems just a bit disingenuous to try to have yourself live up to the full potential of what makes the perfect firefighter, and that may be stacking against yourself with extra stress as you try to make it through these tests and exams for your application.

I understand that you feel like lying in order to bypass a lot of your current issues (especially given you've tried telling the truth in the past and been shut down by it before), but as long as you keep in mind that you're actively working on those issues to better them, I personally think a bit of lying is ok (tautly dubbed the 'white-lie'). You also don't need to tell anyone you're doing tests/exams with the full story. You can simply leave it at "I'm seeking help on it and actively exploring solutions to it" or "working towards fixes with a therapist" if it comes push to shove.

I hope what I explained here gives some thought and deliberation about why suicide shouldn't be a last-end option, because you really do have a strong mind for acknowledging issues and finding fixes. Hopefully a better answer here than simply just 'suicide bad, see a professional'. You have the ability to make meaningful gains and solutions as a problem-solver, and I think that would be an incredible skill to bring over into firefighting, as many are required to think on the fly with the scenario and the landscape changing around them.

Hey, I wanted to take time and thank you for your assessment and fresh perspective on the topic. I think it's a viewpoint we both share in that we may notice that the people around us could potentially place greater emphasis towards self-evaluation and improvement as the means to, well...progress in life, work, personally, etc. for a lack of better description.

I've noted that initially recognizing the underlying issues as certainly the grassroots, and perhaps, only truly effective way to go about it. Progress has always felt slow, but steady, for me. Perhaps the pace varies on an individual basis and we can still appreciate that forward progress is still progress and that the frame of mind to continually seek out improvement is in place at the very least.

Suicidal ideation is something that first sunk in when I was around 15 years of age has sat in the back of my mind ever since. And I can only recall one prior event where I had made preparations 4 years prior, but decided against it last minute. I think suicide is something that would go against all my logic and reasoning, especially because it would essentially negate every meaningful action I have taken to persevere up to this point; and deep down, it might even be something I look down/frown upon. It seems that I only give this area thought when I feel as if I'm backed into a corner and the uncertainty becomes more than I'm able to deal with.

Unfortunately, I did not find the sessions with that previous psychiatrist particularly helpful and sensed the implication of judgement; the patient-provider chemistry just wasn't there. I'd have to continue seeking out the "right" professional to continue those consultations, which would be time consuming. (and not something I'd particularly care for at this time to have any agency being able to readily pull that up from my medical records.)

Rather, my recent steps are setting aside the time of day for my hobbies, socialize with my friends when I can, and doing physical training in the case I'm selected for fire academy. I find that doing these things improves my headspace, establishes routine, and overall could sufficiently benefit to muddle through this rough patch with consistency and discipline.

You are absolutely correct in that the "ideal candidate" is extremely rare and perhaps non-existent because most of us have all done things that we are not proud of or struggled in the past. Of course, everyone I know in career had the foundational benchmarks, but they also knew how to frame themselves by not oversharing their stories. The fire department is also aware that all sorts of mental health risks will inevitably manifest in their personnel and have a lot of measures and resources in place for that. It's all very confusing to me because firehouse culture is all about expanding limitations and personal development. Yet, it seems that I need to be a member first before I get the "nobody's perfect treatment and level of understanding".

I suppose the only thing I've ever wanted is to be accepted and to prove that I am good/reliable at what I do from a proven track record at the highest level. And being accepted into a fire agency that believes and invests in me would enable this. You're also correct that agencies greatly invest monetary, instructor personnel, equipment, etc. in regards to training apprentice personnel and they will try to ensure that they are retained, as to not waste resources. The job security, ability to come forth with my issues without issue, and access to the systems that they have in place is definitely a major motive for me should the need ever arise.

All in all, I've come to better terms that there's not much action I can take in time to affect the outcome. I can only try my best in that moment and be mentally prepared to accept either outcome, whatever it may be.

I'll keep your thoughtful response in mind moving forward. Thank you, again.

[Jetfire300]

Originally Posted by roundbox

I think it's fair to not want to lie to pass the test and feel like you're living disingenuously. However, I think putting suicide as an option over any other career path is not considering all of your options. It seems like you've considered all of your options within the field of EMS as you mentioned the dead end routes, but affixing yourself to such a rigid path with little room for failure is only amplifying your stress around the situation. You don't want to jeopardize a potentially successful procession because you're thinking that suicide is a possible route in the event of failure. People change careers, and I'm not expecting you to force a change in yourself to do this since that too would be disingenuous, but you've still got lots of time in your life to see how you can take your calling to help others and reflect it down another path.

I wish you the best.

Thank you. It's true, there are other options out there where my credentials would be desirable and sought out after. It's inflexible/uncompromising of me to say, but I cannot bring myself to consider options outside of EMS. Considering this is my second career switch. In-hospital positions was and are still a consideration, but there is not much else that comes to mind. You speak sense in saying that my self-expectations for the future have brought brought an excessive amount of stress upon myself and perhaps led to single-mindedness. I'll follow your recommendation and continue thinking on what I need to do so things done. I appreciate your kind wishes and perspective.

[xXOpkillerXx]

I'll keep this relatively short, as there is a lot that's been said already. I truly believe you might benefit from focusing on efficiency and conciseness when sharing your thoughts; not that you're oversharing here (this is a great place to go into details), but specifically in work-related situations. That focus could lead to less overthinking about yourself, and more attention to alternative and positive views, imho. You know what they say, moderation is key, and that applies to self-reflection.

Now regarding the job, it is a very normal and strategic move to apply to job postings where the "required experience and skills" are not what you currently have to offer (in your case, that would be the "desired psychological profile"). There are generally three main outcomes to that:

1. You don't get the job.
2. You get the job, and after some time either you realize it's not for you, or you get fired.
3. You get the job, and everybody's happy and you grow those skills.

Obviously, you have to realize that 2/3 of these outcomes are "I won't work there" and may or may not become "This field isn't really for me after all" if repeated. Nothing wrong with any of that. Keep working on the skills you have (be it physical strength, which is super versatile, or anything else you feel you're good at or want to become good at). That being said, I certainly do hope you get the third outcome, but don't look down on the other ones; they're totally normal and not necessarily negative.

You seem to have a solid grasp on your feelings, and I personally think all you need is time. With time, you'll allow yourself to develop the skills you want, plan alternative paths, and live the stressful moments that will build your tolerance and even possibly start enjoying them a little. Nobody becomes strong without tough physical activity, and nobody becomes mentally strong without experiencing stressful situations. Again though, everything in moderation.

Good luck with everything and keep your head high! ^^

[Funnygurl555]

i feel this man. i wanted to be a doctor (in the us), got a lot of interviews, bombed them all and didn't get in anywhere. i never experienced failure like that before and it absolutely broke me. i was suicidal for a while (granted, many other parts of my life were shit as well). my entire life was focused on being successful because i felt like i owed it to my parents for deciding to give birth to me and raise me after fleeing a damn civil war. although our "all or bust" mentalities came from different places, we had the same type of idea nonetheless. realizing that my personality is what hindered me from career opportunities-- a g a i n-- SUCKS because it doesn't matter how hard you work, you can't change who you are. and you can't lie forever either because that shit's draining

i'm not a doctor now-- i'm a counselor, so i've made a "career change." even in this field i failed at a job because i was too timid and passive to manage 16 people. and that *burns*. but i'm not dead and i'm not gonna die. i just did a different job in my field for a bit. i'll inevitably fail again and that's just life. i had no idea i'd end up here because life is crazy and unpredictable, but i decided to ride it like a wave

life is bigger than your accomplishments. that's easier said than to actually believe, but it's true. you need to find purpose outside of your career. that's the bigger issue than anything here. i'd recommend slowing the hell down and finding a job that gets you by while you do some serious soul searching. or, if you don't need the money, don't fucking work and do the damn soul searching. life is bigger than your accomplishments man. touch grass or get a netflix subscription

don't die that's fucking lame

[BruceAdler]

Originally Posted by Jetfire300

Hey, I wanted to take time and thank you for your assessment and fresh perspective on the topic. I think it's a viewpoint we both share in that we may notice that the people around us could potentially place greater emphasis towards self-evaluation and improvement as the means to, well...progress in life, work, personally, etc. for a lack of better description.

I've noted that initially recognizing the underlying issues as certainly the grassroots, and perhaps, only truly effective way to go about it. Progress has always felt slow, but steady, for me. Perhaps the pace varies on an individual basis and we can still appreciate that forward progress is still progress and that the frame of mind to continually seek out improvement is in place at the very least.

Suicidal ideation is something that first sunk in when I was around 15 years of age has sat in the back of my mind ever since. And I can only recall one prior event where I had made preparations 4 years prior, but decided against it last minute. I think suicide is something that would go against all my logic and reasoning, especially because it would essentially negate every meaningful action I have taken to persevere up to this point; and deep down, it might even be something I look down/frown upon. It seems that I only give this area thought when I feel as if I'm backed into a corner and the uncertainty becomes more than I'm able to deal with.

Unfortunately, I did not find the sessions with that previous psychiatrist particularly helpful and sensed the implication of judgement; the patient-provider chemistry just wasn't there. I'd have to continue seeking out the "right" professional to continue those consultations, which would be time consuming. (and not something I'd particularly care for at this time to have any agency being able to readily pull that up from my medical records.)

Rather, my recent steps are setting aside the time of day for my hobbies, socialize with my friends when I can, and doing physical training in the case I'm selected for fire academy. I find that doing these things improves my headspace, establishes routine, and overall could sufficiently benefit to muddle through this rough patch with consistency and discipline.

You are absolutely correct in that the "ideal candidate" is extremely rare and perhaps non-existent because most of us have all done things that we are not proud of or struggled in the past. Of course, everyone I know in career had the foundational benchmarks, but they also knew how to frame themselves by not oversharing their stories. The fire department is also aware that all sorts of mental health risks will inevitably manifest in their personnel and have a lot of measures and resources in place for that. It's all very confusing to me because firehouse culture is all about expanding limitations and personal development. Yet, it seems that I need to be a member first before I get the "nobody's perfect treatment and level of understanding".

I suppose the only thing I've ever wanted is to be accepted and to prove that I am good/reliable at what I do from a proven track record at the highest level. And being accepted into a fire agency that believes and invests in me would enable this. You're also correct that agencies greatly invest monetary, instructor personnel, equipment, etc. in regards to training apprentice personnel and they will try to ensure that they are retained, as to not waste resources. I remember getting help for my statistics assignment from this site https://essays.edubirdie.com/statistic-assignment-help it has a lot of essays and not only! The job security, ability to come forth with my issues without issue, and access to the systems that they have in place is definitely a major motive for me should the need ever arise.

All in all, I've come to better terms that there's not much action I can take in time to affect the outcome. I can only try my best in that moment and be mentally prepared to accept either outcome, whatever it may be.

I'll keep your thoughtful response in mind moving forward. Thank you, again.

Damn I just realize how similar my thoughts are...wow thanks for sharing this.