Ingame Song Information

[IgroMAN]

to restore the original difficulty Oni deserves, we should move it to only 79-82 difficulty songs instead of 76-79.

Why somebody get oni on Baloon Fever or VB and now I cant do same??? Why it became harder to gain this token??? I understand that everyone increasing skill in time, but its wrong to increase requirements. I expect that count of unlocked oni will grow in time but this isnt the reason to make it harder. /Sorry for my english/

[krunkykai22]

I agree with Igro. It's not fair that some people have obtained ONI from songs like sympathizer, vertex beta, and balloon fever. However, now they are mid-high VC songs. I feel that if you're going to change the requirements, at least make it the same for everyone.

[Niala]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Why can't we keep [Oni] at the same difficulty? There are plenty of people who have gotten it on songs that would definitely not be considered FMO now, and that's annoying to me because I don't have [Oni]. Given my ranks on low to mid FMOs, I know I'm at least in the top 428 players here; and yet 428 people have [Oni] and I don't. I don't think that the requirements for a skill token should get harder just because players who have already done the requirement 50 times over think it's too easy.

Tada! We have miraculous insight. Just because all the best players are getting better, all the not-as-good players have to struggle harder than they did to receive the same token? I understand that [Oni] was supposed to be really hard to get, but that was "really hard to get" back a few years ago. Just because it's not as hard any more doesn't mean we should go and up the difficulty of it, it just means people are getting better. Repeatedly, as I've seen in this thread, people complain about people getting [Oni] off of easy FMO's like NWE or LW4, but how many people would have gotten it off of easier songs like VB or Balloon Fever years ago? Hell, if either of those were still requirements for [Oni], I could probably get it. [Oni] should just stay were it is. It's hard enough to get as it is, we don't need to make it any harder.

[mhss1992]

Originally Posted by stavie33

Oni was supposed to be THE impossible token that no one would get but 6-7 people. When it first came out, only people at the level of Shash, Darkshark, and Ledwix could get it. The bar on Oni has lowered so drastically that the entire reason the token req existed has been destroyed. Now so many people have it, it's not even a big deal anymore. That's why, to restore the original difficulty Oni deserves, we should move it to only 79-82 difficulty songs instead of 76-79.

And people who got it from a 78 difficulty song, like me, will just lose it?
Well, that's not fair. An FMO is an FMO. Difficulties should be based on comparison to other songs, not in comparison to the average skill of players. In absolute terms, the difficulty to get Oni has actually increased, but the players have gotten better.

[stavie33]

I originally mentioned the idea of a token that required AAA an FGO song to get, but Tass didn't like the idea, though now with Ketsarku being AAA'd a lot and my current SDG's on FGO's, I think it can be put into action. Also, the song I had in mind would be harder than DP and maybe even RATO, it was Emiru Maniaxx, by DJ Sharpnel and M1dy, and the file was f'ing INSANE. I was hoping it would get in and we'd have that token, but apparently we don't have permission for M1dy, and his songs are the only songs I can think of that can be stepped beyond insane (most are crazier than CRD IMO)

[krunkykai22]

I don't think anyone said that they would get oni taken away. But, more or less, give everyone equal opportunity to get oni like all of you did years ago. xD

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by Patashu

I assumed that the implication was [Oni] songs would stay [Oni] only now they'd be the toughest VCs instead of the easiest FMOs.

Historically this didn't happen. I would like to see this though, if I can AAA a song that gave someone [Oni] once, I should still get it.

Originally Posted by stavie33

Oni was supposed to be THE impossible token that no one would get but 6-7 people. When it first came out, only people at the level of Shash, Darkshark, and Ledwix could get it. The bar on Oni has lowered so drastically that the entire reason the token req existed has been destroyed. Now so many people have it, it's not even a big deal anymore. That's why, to restore the original difficulty Oni deserves, we should move it to only 79-82 difficulty songs instead of 76-79.

And now 430 people have it! Clearly it's not THE impossible token anymore. Think about it, though, the bar has stayed the same or maybe even increased a little - but what has increased MORE is the level of the best players. Now if you can't AAA several FMOs you're not even a good player. Patashu is right, though, since so many people now have [Oni] it is completely unfair to make it harder just to prevent more people from getting it. It's not an exclusive club and as I've said before If I AAA LW4 in 2010 or 2011 (or 2020), does it take less skill than if I AAA it today? Don't I deserve [Oni] in either none of those circumstances, or all of them?

Originally Posted by Patashu

make a new token. [Edit] or something, unlocks Otaku Speedvibe [Edit].
AAA an FGO?

Heh, I had this idea too. It would be a pretty good idea, to just have one thing that was only for the best players. If this is made I would support automatically giving it to anyone with an FGO AAA (to save them the hassle of redoing it). Maybe it could be Otaku ULTRAspeedvibe. You can just fill it with 275bpm jumpstream

[mhss1992]

Originally Posted by stavie33

I originally mentioned the idea of a token that required AAA an FGO song to get, but Tass didn't like the idea, though now with Ketsarku being AAA'd a lot and my current SDG's on FGO's, I think it can be put into action. Also, the song I had in mind would be harder than DP and maybe even RATO, it was Emiru Maniaxx, by DJ Sharpnel and M1dy, and the file was f'ing INSANE. I was hoping it would get in and we'd have that token, but apparently we don't have permission for M1dy, and his songs are the only songs I can think of that can be stepped beyond insane (most are crazier than CRD IMO)

A FGO AAA token would be really cool...

[Bolth mannn]

make the reward of AAAing an FGO, vertex beta VROFL

its not like theres any contests being made anymore that give that token out.

[EAGAMES]

tl;dr version: Your skill level is irrelevent to this conversation. Shut up and practice if you can't get [Oni] now. and the [Oni] requirements should be modified.

Originally Posted by Gilly G

I'm going to have to agree with qqwref's point. Just because the players are getting better does not mean the difficulties should be modified. Perhaps the players who have been here longer are better, but there are always more recent players that see our easier songs as their harder songs.

Not only are the players getting better overall, but the patterns and notes of simfiles are becoming more complex, thus increasing the difficulty range.

As for the individual gameplay experience portion of your argument, that's pretty irrelevent.

Originally Posted by IgroMAN

And disagree with EAGAMES:

As you can see I'm in top 100 by all rankings BUT I still havent get [Oni] and raising up requirements will make this token impossible for me for a years. Thank you.

That's a personal complication.

Originally Posted by Patashu

I assumed that the implication was [Oni] songs would stay [Oni] only now they'd be the toughest VCs instead of the easiest FMOs.

Originally Posted by stavie33

Oni was supposed to be THE impossible token that no one would get but 6-7 people. When it first came out, only people at the level of Shash, Darkshark, and Ledwix could get it. The bar on Oni has lowered so drastically that the entire reason the token req existed has been destroyed. Now so many people have it, it's not even a big deal anymore.

^^^ That.

Originally Posted by IgroMAN

Why somebody get oni on Baloon Fever or VB and now I cant do same??? Why it became harder to gain this token??? I understand that everyone increasing skill in time, but its wrong to increase requirements. I expect that count of unlocked oni will grow in time but this isnt the reason to make it harder. /Sorry for my english/

Initially, Cia Rave was a FMO when it was first released, if I'm not mistaken. Why not AAA it and say you AAAd another FMO? Why is it a C(?) now anyways?

... because competition is constanly growing.

Originally Posted by Niala

Repeatedly, as I've seen in this thread, people complain about people getting [Oni] off of easy FMO's like NWE or LW4, but how many people would have gotten it off of easier songs like VB or Balloon Fever years ago? Hell, if either of those were still requirements for [Oni], I could probably get it. [Oni] should just stay were it is. It's hard enough to get as it is, we don't need to make it any harder.

Think about the "skill cap" back then. AAAing Vertex Beta was pretty godly.

Oh, you're like the 48647561st person to refer to your current skill level.

Originally Posted by mhss1992

An FMO is an FMO. Difficulties should be based on comparison to other songs, not in comparison to the average skill of players.

Because the R1-Song Difficulty list is obviously based on people's skills and opinion, rather than comparison to other song levels. Basing yourself on the list, you discover that the scale of song difficulties have changed, and to keep things balanced you must shift things around.

[awein999]

we should make a new token that only current ffr "gods" can get. I don't think oni should be changed just add another token that applies to today.

to stavie: yeah NWE is rediculously easy for an fmo, I agree with that.

[stavie33]

Wow, does everyone have alsheimers (spelled wrong probably) or did they really forget the reason AAA'ing Balloon Fever and VB was impossible back then? When Oni came out, the thought of FFR without avmisses didn't even exist. So when Oni was released, AAA'ing Vertex Beta would be like AAA'ing Ketsarku or Reality now. Songs like Balloon Fever could be compared to BB Evolution, and BB Evolution was about as hard to AAA as Necropotence is to SDG. Although my references may be off, avmisses still made those songs impossible, so for all those who got Oni when avmisses were in play, the REAL FFR Gods, I feel it's unfair for them to have worked so hard with avmisses (and trust me, they did, they were so proud they used to flaunt it in their sigs as the FFR graduation degree) and now have people get it for songs like Choprite and especially NWE, it's just not fair to anyone, and those who can't get it now will probably never get it anyway, no offense, but if you STILL can't AAA NWE, you don't deserve Oni, ever. And those who can still don't deserve it, so they should definitely move it up. And @ mhhs, AAA'ing Epidermis deserves it, so good job, you wouldn't lose the token over that, I still have a BF on Epidermis, so you beat me.

[qqwref]

You forget that 430 people have [Oni]. Seriously, I understand that you want to have an unlock that is only for the best of the best, but [Oni] is a SKILL TOKEN and as such the requirements should not change. Very few of the other skill token requirements have ever changed. Stop being so elitist guys, as I have said, it is a skill token and just because you have done the requirements many times over does not mean it should suddenly get harder. It has not been the hallmark of the most elite players for a LONG time and you all know that. If it suddenly becomes a very hard token to acquire, all you will be doing is giving extra legitimacy to the people who got it when it was "easy". That's dumb.

And as for avmisses... how many jacks do Balloon Fever and Sympathizer and VB have? I can't even think of any. I mean, if you can AAA those songs without avmisses, I wouldn't be too surprised if you AAA'd them with avmisses. It's not really that much difference in difficulty.

[Vanilla Mnm]

Originally Posted by qqwref

You forget that 430 people have [Oni]. Seriously, I understand that you want to have an unlock that is only for the best of the best, but [Oni] is a SKILL TOKEN and as such the requirements should not change. None of the other skill token requirements have ever changed. Stop being so elitist guys, as I have said, it is a skill token and just because you have done the requirements many times over does not mean it should suddenly get harder. It has not been the hallmark of the most elite players for a LONG time and you all know that. If it suddenly becomes a very hard token to acquire, all you will be doing is giving extra legitimacy to the people who got it when it was "easy". That's dumb.

And as for avmisses... how many jacks do Balloon Fever and Sympathizer and VB have? I can't even think of any. I mean, if you can AAA those songs without avmisses, I wouldn't be too surprised if you AAA'd them with avmisses. It's not really that much difference in difficulty.

+ Out of those 430 People a lot of them have more than one account that got the skill token. I want another really difficult skill token to come out, like [Oni]. I mean at this point I want anything, we haven't gotten anything in like freakin' more than half a year.

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by qqwref

And as for avmisses... how many jacks do Balloon Fever and Sympathizer and VB have? I can't even think of any. I mean, if you can AAA those songs without avmisses, I wouldn't be too surprised if you AAA'd them with avmisses. It's not really that much difference in difficulty.

Dude, how much do yo actually know about avmisses? The entirety of those songs are 4 framers, and 4 framers were still greatly effected by avmisses

[EAGAMES]

Originally Posted by qqwref

You forget that 430 people have [Oni]. Seriously, I understand that you want to have an unlock that is only for the best of the best, but [Oni] is a SKILL TOKEN and as such the requirements should not change. None of the other skill token requirements have ever changed. Stop being so elitist guys, as I have said, it is a skill token and just because you have done the requirements many times over does not mean it should suddenly get harder. It has not been the hallmark of the most elite players for a LONG time and you all know that. If it suddenly becomes a very hard token to acquire, all you will be doing is giving extra legitimacy to the people who got it when it was "easy". That's dumb.

And as for avmisses... how many jacks do Balloon Fever and Sympathizer and VB have? I can't even think of any. I mean, if you can AAA those songs without avmisses, I wouldn't be too surprised if you AAA'd them with avmisses. It's not really that much difference in difficulty.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! It's a buttload of gayness.

As for the elitist part, my first post referred to the difficulty ranges of the list and how each section should be divided by bumping down most songs. I merely used the required songs for [Oni] as an example. I really could care less whether the requirements for [Oni] stay as low FMO's, or become the hardest VCs. Most FMO's are way too easy anyways. Stavie isn't being an elitist either. He's simply agreeing that a redefining of the list's difficulties would be ideal. Who's being elitist?

[Niala]

... Just because I'm curious, but why do the people who already have [Oni] care so God damned much? You have it; let us try to get it. Simple? I completely agree that NWE isn't FMO difficulty. It, along with a really **** lucky run on Rottel-da-Station, are the only FMO SDG's I have. If you want to take [Oni] off of things that aren't really hard enough to be considered FMO's than go for it and make the easy songs VC's, but why make it ****ing harder to get? All you're going to end up doing is discouraging people from trying to get it.

Also, the point has been brought up that "CIA Rave was an FMO when it first came out, and it's a Challenging now." Doesn't that just go to show that FMO's are gradually getting harder anyway? Theoretically, with this increase, that means that [Oni] will gradually get harder to get, because the level cap for FMO's is getting higher. So, answer me this: why is it necessary to raise the level cap for [Oni] so drastically and all at once when it's going to happen naturally anyway?

[Patashu]

Do you think CIA Rave becoming a VC was something that happened naturally, or was decided upon by community consensus then enacted?

[EAGAMES]

Originally Posted by Niala

... Just because I'm curious, but why do the people who already have [Oni] care so God damned much? You have it; let us try to get it. Simple? I completely agree that NWE isn't FMO difficulty. It, along with a really **** lucky run on Rottel-da-Station, are the only FMO SDG's I have. If you want to take [Oni] off of things that aren't really hard enough to be considered FMO's than go for it and make the easy songs VC's, but why make it ****ing harder to get? All you're going to end up doing is discouraging people from trying to get it.

Also, the point has been brought up that "CIA Rave was an FMO when it first came out, and it's a Challenging now." Doesn't that just go to show that FMO's are gradually getting harder anyway? Theoretically, with this increase, that means that [Oni] will gradually get harder to get, because the level cap for FMO's is getting higher. So, answer me this: why is it necessary to raise the level cap for [Oni] so drastically and all at once when it's going to happen naturally anyway?

Discouraging? Wouldn't that encourage you more to become better? Wouldn't it be that much sweeter knowing that you have a skill token that not many others have, rather than 400+ others?

Sorry for the vague example, but do you think CIA Rave is [Oni] get material now because it was a FMO in the past? Wait, why was it bumped down in the first place and now considered a Challenging? ... because of newer, harder songs.

What you're saying is correct, the level cap for FMO's is getting higher, thus increasing the required difficulty for [Oni], but there needs to be a drastic change because there hasn't been a change in... never. In the almost two years -if I'm not mistaken- that the song has been out, more song were added along the way, but only BF and VB were removed. Perhaps it's time?

EDIT: Damn, foot-shoe sounds so smrt and sexy.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by EAGAMES

Discouraging? Wouldn't that encourage you more to become better? Wouldn't it be that much sweeter knowing that you have a skill token that not many others have, rather than 400+ others?

Oh, so you DO want to take [Oni] away from people.

Okay.

Hey, while we're at it, why not redefine all the skill tokens so they're still a challenge to the top 0.01% of players? Let's make ERx8v2 public, and then make a v3 that requires getting 2 goods or better on ERx8v2. Or, hey, it's too easy to unlock Melonman's, so let's make it 30 times in a row instead of 3. And for EternuS we should have to pass every 7 and 8 in a row.

Seriously, if only a few people had [Oni] I would agree, but it is no longer an elite thing and that is why it pisses me off that the people who find it trivially easy are trying to prevent others from getting it. If I ever get [Oni] I won't be feeling good because I have something that not many other players have... I'll be feeling good because I got one of the three STs I don't have, and because I got my best AAA. Why would I be proud of being the 431st (or whatever) person to get some random token, when I can do a AAA that fewer people have done without even trying?