What's with the hostility towards Christians?

[devonin]

maybe it wasn't clear ?_?

If you mean "Only proselytizing Christians" you shouldn't say "all christians" since not all christians are proselytizing christians. Clarity!

hurrr call me out on generalizations but not bolth mannn k.

I went back over both of his posts to this thread, and didn't see any sweping generalizations, especially not on par with "all christians X"

[MinaciousGrace]

p. sure I didn't use the word all in my post but w/e it's understood now.

also bolth mannn's whole non believers are lost and don't care about their lives thing etc etc.

[Tokzic]

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn

christianity teaches you to be on a good path, to have respect for your own life. for all I know the bible could be the biggest conspiracy in the world, but it sure helps the youth of the world understand themselves and have respect for their own wel-being. You never see proper christians involved in suicides, violent rampages, drunk bashing, or being on Ice or anything of the sort.

Why do you make crap like this up? That is unbelievably wrong. Two seconds of Googling shows:

1) "Followers of religions that strongly prohibit suicide, like Christianity and Islam, have a higher suicide rate than those religions which have no strong prohibition (e.g. Buddhism and Hinduism.)"

2) "A study showed that the most "Christian' parts of the United States, the South and Midwest, have the highest rates of social ills and crime including murder, sexually transmitted diseases, mortality and so forth. The study also showed that the United States as a whole has far higher rates of crime and social ills than the rest of the developed world including all of Europe. The US is much more "Christian" than civilized nations."

Surprise, christianity doesn't do anything to instill morals or make you good people.

You seem to think that being religious gives you a moral leg up, or helps you be more happy about life than you would be as a non-religious person, but that's kind of funny to hear. Non-religious people establish morals, just like you do, but they do so based on rationalization and their own actual feelings, rather than "here's what you do, now do it". If people decide they want to kill someone, that is not a lack of faith, that's a lack of rational. And there's no getting around that there's no rationality in faith. The numbers prove it.

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn

most people who don't believe in anything at all are lost and couldnt care less about their life, always wondering if theres anything more. christianity gives you that hope. it helps you believe that your on earth for a reason. god* might not be real, but it definately makes the earth a better place.

Once again, you're saying things with no backbone as fact. No, most people who don't believe in supernatural things are actually more content and in-touch with themselves than your average christian because they are actually listening to themselves and hard fact as their authorities. Unlike religious people, non-religious find enjoyment on this plane of life, without putting a blind hope into thinking that's not all. I think that this would enhance my enjoyment of this life, and from what I've observed, compared to the religious, it does.

[flipsta_lombax]

I think Christianity is easily attacked because one, it's the most popular religion. When religion comes in topic, everyone has an opinion upon it, most thinking their opinion is definite and accurate, shunning those who has a counteracting one. It's also because most opinions suggest that scripture shouldn't determine what he or she has to do, nor be told where to go if what he or she has done is not good.

My two cents on this is faith. Whatever you feel is right to you, that's fine. It doesn't mean it's also fine for someone else. Some base it on how they grew up and how their parents raised them up to be. If they were born in a strongly religious family, most likely an offspring will be accustomed to that lifestyle. It also goes for a family who never practiced religion.

A person tends to prejudice on what they hear, not by their own personal experience. So when someone hears that 'Christian people forces their religion on people', he or she will react. And most likely, what they hear they will execute towards others.

The only sources we have of any kind of "God" is based on unproven writings from thousands of years ago. None of these people saw this "God" fellow. They 'heard' him.

These people as you mean as the disciples did not just hear him. They followed him and his teachings, hence why there is a New Testament.

EDIT: Oh, when it comes to saying "existence unproven until one sees it", when was that ever the case for something to exist if we can't see, touch, or even hear it? Take love for example.

[DossarLX ODI]

No matter what you do, even if you're famous for good deeds or amazing talents, there will always be some ugly talk from some haters (jealousy)

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by Tokzic

Surprise, christianity doesn't do anything to instill morals or make you good people.

It certainly can. Whether you become a good person via introspection and social observation or just to follow Jesus is irrelevant.

All your statistics pointed out was that being Christian (or, in the case of #2, merely living in a Christian-dominant part of the US) doesn't preclude you from being a bad person.

I won't say that it's the only way, but suggesting that nobody has ever found a moral beacon through, or become a good person because of, Christianity is foolish.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[fullmetal_alchemist027]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

I won't say that it's the only way, but suggesting that nobody has ever found a moral beacon through, or become a good person because of, Christianity is foolish.

Too true Guido. Like I said before, it does some people good to follow Christianity or even religions in general. It gives them a different way to look at things. Take for example, evolution. A devout Christan will probably say that God created Man and such. Someone who is into a more, scientific view, will argue that a being such as God had no hand in the matter/doesn't exist. Both sides will argue, "Well, I have this to prove it. "That evidence is unproven, whereas I have this."

Believe whatever the hell you want to believe. It keeps you happy, and gives you something to think about. But when you start trying to push your way of life/ your beliefs onto another being, they will fight back.

What you think about your religion/non-religious affiliation is an opinion, not a fact.

And opinions are like nipples, everyone has a couple.

[Izzy]

I don't think it makes sense how religious people can pick apart religious views and only take the ones that make sense to them. How can you just say you believe half the things Christianity has to offer and then say the other ones are iffy. If any of it is questionable, they are all unreliable.

[flipsta_lombax]

Originally Posted by Izzy

I don't think it makes sense how religious people can pick apart religious views and only take the ones that make sense to them. How can you just say you believe half the things Christianity has to offer and then say the other ones are iffy. If any of it is questionable, they are all unreliable.

As if that made half the sense you wanted it to.

Religion comes with a certain perspective, with a certain deity. Coming from mines, believing in one religion then believing another is irrational.

You can't force only one perspective because not everyone comes from just that one.

And it's not always what makes sense. Sometimes, people choose because they feel it's the right thing to do. I'm not completely coming from that road though, but I'm just saying how other people have expressed it.

[Izzy]

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but it had no relevance to the point I was making. I am talking about within in a single religion.

[Tokzic]

All your statistics pointed out was that being Christian (or, in the case of #2, merely living in a Christian-dominant part of the US) doesn't preclude you from being a bad person.

No. My statistics pointed out that christian people have a higher tendency of being a bad person, and this from people who like to pretend they have better morals than the non-religious, as bolth believes. My statistics pointed out that christians are especially bad at violating their moral code.

I won't say that it's the only way, but suggesting that nobody has ever found a moral beacon through, or become a good person because of, Christianity is foolish.

I misspoke a bit. What I meant to say is that christianity is not a particularly powerful means of instilling good morals. Again, as my statistics point out, christianity is actually worse than coming to your own morals.

This makes it even more hilarious when non-christians are told they're going to hell, and that nothing's stopping us from going on a crazy rampage because apparently we need the threat of fire and brimstone to keep us in check.

Originally Posted by fullmetal_alchemist027

Too true Guido. Like I said before, it does some people good to follow Christianity or even religions in general. It gives them a different way to look at things. Take for example, evolution. A devout Christan will probably say that God created Man and such. Someone who is into a more, scientific view, will argue that a being such as God had no hand in the matter/doesn't exist. Both sides will argue, "Well, I have this to prove it. "That evidence is unproven, whereas I have this."

lmfao

The problem with using the bible as scientific evidence - besides it having no scientific credibility, of course - is that you can't say the proof that the bible is real is because the bible says so. Also, evolution is a horrible example to use because you have no idea what a theory is. The fact that the earth orbits the sun is also a theory. A theory isn't a "guess as to what is true", it's an explanation for what is true. We've proven that creatures have developed slowly from single-celled organisms.

It's not a debate anymore. It hasn't been for decades. Christians like to pretend there's one still going on. There isn't. Evolution happened.

[flipsta_lombax]

Originally Posted by Izzy

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but it had no relevance to the point I was making. I am talking about within in a single religion.

The way you said it, it seems as if you we're talking about different religions. But in that case, it's still the same.

The different sects in a religion comes from the different interpretations of this one perspective. Again, we can't force one opinion on people because he or she always sees it differently.

I don't find any use for it nor do I agree with it, hence why I am a Non-denominate Christian. I just believe in the main idea, not going for anything fancy (like communions kissing temples or anything that veers away from what really matters).

[Izzy]

You join a religion to become apart of exactly what the religion says. Otherwise what is the point in being part of a religion at all. Just come up with your own beliefs.

Can i just say I'm a christian, but then say "oh well i don't believe the whole god part of christianity though."
"I don't believe in hell, but I'm still christian."

Sure those are extreme exmaples, but that's the general idea I'm getting at. If you dont believe exactly what they are telling you I don't see how you can call yourself being apart of that religion. Then you would think that all those parts you don't believe in are ridiculous beliefs.

Yea, no ****.

If I wrote a million random things down and a forth of them happened to be decent that doesn't mean its a good basis for a a persons life.

[fullmetal_alchemist027]

Tokzic, I was just using evolution as an example because that's still an argument in many places today, evidence or not. Dunno if you were picking me out on that so sorry if you werent

[Tokzic]

Originally Posted by fullmetal_alchemist027

Tokzic, I was just using evolution as an example because that's still an argument in many places today, evidence or not.

Originally Posted by Tokzic

It's not a debate anymore. It hasn't been for decades. Christians like to pretend there's one still going on. There isn't. Evolution happened.

Scientist: "Here is hard evidence that creatures have slowly progressed from less to more complex lifeforms."
christian: "BUT THE BIBLE SAYS THAT'S WRONG."

That is not a a debate. That is bringing your opinion to a fact fight.

[flipsta_lombax]

Religion isn't exactly a cult, you know. You're not forced into one, neither. There is no way a religion can tell you what you can and/or have to believe. What DOES tell you is the doctrine of a religion.

I get where you are trying to go for. Yes, not everyone believes in doing the same principle of a religion. A reason for that is their own interpretation.

The Bible is has been interpreted in so many ways, most of it might not be accurate, in fact. What Christians will see from it, though, is what they'll believe. The many interpretations is where you get the little differences in the group.

Oh, and I'm sure this doctrine aren't written from lunatics; they are written from people who've seen the reason for it years ago and has written it as knowledge and forewarning. Take the Constitution as a good example.

Do we know what the proven accuracy of the Bible is? Maybe... but I highly doubt it. That's where faith comes in. That's always up to a person. So if you don't agree, that's up to you.

[funmonkey54]

Originally Posted by Squeek

No offense, but this is a horrible argument.

The expression you are using is completely misused. "You have to see it to believe it" is used when something goes against our natural beliefs. I don't deny that there's a palace in India. That's not hard to believe. There are lots of palaces in India. There are lots of palaces around the world. Why would it be difficult for me to believe it? Telling me that there's a being in the sky that governs what we do? That's difficult for me to believe.

To touch on what you were trying to argue, the reason I know the Taj Mahal exists is because we have multiple recorded sources of its existence. Its existence is a known fact. The only sources we have of any kind of "God" is based on unproven writings from thousands of years ago. None of these people saw this "God" fellow. They 'heard' him. Well, lots of people hear voices in their heads. They're called 'insane'. Why do you treat these people with much higher regard than the average schizo?

And to the OP, the last three posts are touching on why there's hostility toward Christians. Faith-based measures impede on society. You believe what you want to believe, but when push comes to shove, you stay out of our business. That's the deal we struck when we started this country, because we knew involving religion into government was a slippery slope.

At what point did I say that was my argument as to why God exists? You analyzed what I stated COMPLETELY wrong. I was stating that as a reason of disbelief in others. I at no point said that is a reason why people should believe in God. Personally, I have a kind of view like this. It is not my butt burning in hell. And while that is a terrible look to have on it, and I do share my faith when it is appropriate or asked of me, I do not at ANY point force my religion on others.

Now, I am assuming you are an atheist of some sort by the way you talk about it, so I will not argue about what religion is right or wrong. We are both stubborn in that we both believe we are right and it most likely is not going to change, but I see a lot of value in backing our government with a set of morals. Whether that moral value be backed by a religion, an idea, or whatever it may be, I see the value in it. The constant political correctness BS REALLY gets annoying because when push comes to shove, we want to say certain things are right or wrong, but not others. By that I mean we want to say murder is wrong, but then we ask who is to say something like gay marriage is ok or wrong. In my opinion, if we do not have some set of morals to back what we say with, then we have no right to say what is and isn't right or wrong. People will argue and bicker over anything the government does. Our government will never do anything that makes everyone happy, so a stand must be made and a line must be drawn at some point.

Originally Posted by Tokzic

Scientist: "Here is hard evidence that creatures have slowly progressed from less to more complex lifeforms."
christian: "BUT THE BIBLE SAYS THAT'S WRONG."

That is not a a debate. That is bringing your opinion to a fact fight.

See, I have an issue with this as well. This is more how it should be, and I fault both people that act these ways in situations.

Scientist: Here is what I believe to be true based entirely on theories I choose to confirm as correct. I believe X changed and developed due to a series of forced adaptations into Y.

Christian: And that is very well. You can believe that, but here is what I believe based on theories I have chosen to confirm as fact in my own opinion. I believe we were created as we are or at least very similar by a greater being, similar to how we as beings create elements.

At this point, both people are stating their opinions and beliefs in a non-confrontational way. Both are admitting it to be theory, seeing as how nearly everything we consider to be fact in science is indeed theory.

[dore]

Originally Posted by Izzy

You join a religion to become apart of exactly what the religion says. Otherwise what is the point in being part of a religion at all. Just come up with your own beliefs.

The only part of the bible that's a strict rulebook is the ten commandments, the rest is pretty much stories and teachings. It's perfectly normal to read it as literature and interpret it however you want. Why do you think there's so many different denominations of Christianity? different interpretations of the bible.

[funmonkey54]

Originally Posted by dore

The only part of the bible that's a strict rulebook is the ten commandments, the rest is pretty much stories and teachings. It's perfectly normal to read it as literature and interpret it however you want. Why do you think there's so many different denominations of Christianity? different interpretations of the bible.

That and slight denominational differences based entirely on region. I mean, Free Methodist and Wesleyan for example. They have NO differences within their beliefs, but are simply in different regions. =/

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn

You never see proper christians involved in suicides, violent rampages, drunk bashing, or being on Ice or anything of the sort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

There are enough examples of Christian-raised people committing terrible or violent crimes that I don't think I need to list any. And there are even examples of Christians committing crimes just as a matter of rebellion against authority - crimes that they wouldn't commit if they believed that they were morally wrong on their own. Saying all Christians are moral, non-violent saints is just as closed-minded and incorrect as saying all atheists are immoral, violent beasts.

Besides, would you rather be a good person because you believe it in your heart to be right, or because you are threatened with eternal torture if you don't?