World of Warcraft

[Izzy]

Lets also turn it into a visual novel with no pvp. As for Hit, expertise, dodge and parry those stats were retarded because it made them game based on RNG. The game is too dumbed down now to matter, but back in wotlk it would have made sense.

[choof]

catering to casuals

can't blame them tho, they want money and mindless players

gg

[ffr212]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Lets also turn it into a visual novel with no pvp. As for Hit, expertise, dodge and parry those stats were retarded because it made them game based on RNG. The game is too dumbed down now to matter, but back in wotlk it would have made sense.

We all know wrath was the peak and we'll never get wrath back. The only thing we can hope for now is that they don't fuck it up even more.

[choof]

Originally Posted by ffr212

The only thing we can hope for now is that they don't fuck it up even more.

welp

[ffr212]

Originally Posted by choof

welp

I ain't got anything else to do with my time. If they do fuck it up I'll probably still play that shitty game for all eternity.

I'm not addicted, just lonely.

[Izzy]

I might pay for a month and get to 90 just because 15 dollars doesn't seem like that much anymore now that I have a job. Having a job also forces me to not be able to play all the time.

[Izzy]

So far level 90 pvp is just stupid. Gear is so easily obtainable that everyone has it. Skill is pretty much a non factor and is more about coordinating with teammates.

At first I thought how annoying it was that you can't even tell what kind of gear people have because of transmogging, but now I realize it doesn't even matter because gear is basically irrelevant.

This game has truly turned into a game for casuals that do not want a challenge and need everything handed to them.

[devonin]

Skill is pretty much a non factor and is more about coordinating with teammates.

Which is a skill.

[Izzy]

Eh, I guess. Just a very easy skill. Anyone can pick up the game and be almost as good as everyone else.

It's different. Will take some getting used to.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Eh, I guess. Just a very easy skill. Anyone can pick up the game and be almost as good as everyone else.

It's different. Will take some getting used to.

If they are making the game more about coordination and cooperation, and you've decided that is an easier skill to acquire than general 1v1 pvp skill, that's fine.

If anything, the more level the playing field is, the more likely especially skilled people are to excel. I'd be much happier to be able to count on the rest of the team being at least competent through whatever means that is created, than be super great myself and often be on a team with idiots and losing in spite of my skill.

[Izzy]

The idea of everyone being on a more equal footing gear wise is alright, but I really don't like the idea of not being able to have a significant impact on the game through personal skill.

And when I say teamwork I don't really mean teamwork in some kind of glorified manner. It is more like "everyone attack X" and then X dies and you succeed. If everyone can follow mindless instructions then you will do well.

What class you are is barely even significant anymore.

[devonin]

It's not about following mindless instructions though. It's about a general awareness of what needs to be done, which does take some skill.

Maybe you're used to being the one to give instructions and expect people to follow them, but in a 'pvp with random dudes' scenario, who is the one who actually gives instructions and gets followed is a non-trivial matter.

Also, insert reference here that being completely stun-locked until death by a previously stealthed rogue isn't exactly a cunning match of wits between two people.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by devonin

Also, insert reference here that being completely stun-locked until death by a previously stealthed rogue isn't exactly a cunning match of wits between two people.

They make that pretty much impossible between two equal geared people. It is even more impossible in panda since they combined the diminishing returns of cheapshot and kidneyshot. Yet somehow I end up getting feared several times in a row for 6+ seconds. Just because it isn't a stun they removed diminishing returns or something? Or maybe two different peoples CC abilities don't share diminishing returns?

I don't understand how things work for that quite yet so I'll need to experiment some more. Definitely can't stunlock people for any significant portion of their HP if they are of equal gear.

Originally Posted by devonin

It's not about following mindless instructions though. It's about a general awareness of what needs to be done, which does take some skill.

I kind of assume this is a the bare minimum for even playing a video game. If you can't do this then I don't think the person even has the mental capacity to play any game at all.

[devonin]

It takes a level of specialised understanding that you don't require to be successful in other arenas of WoW gameplay or gameplay in general.

You can be a fantastic PvE raider in any role and be terrible at PvP. And vice versa.

[choof]

I think Izzy is just used to steam rolling people on his private server.

[Arntonach]

So by removing most of the RNG issues and making players rely less on gear the game's getting worse? I remember people complaining about that shit non stop back when I had an account, what with all the loot drama and the whole 'why won't this spider drop it's quest item I need 20 of them asdf' thing, which ruined the game for me.

[Izzy]

It's a wotlk vs panda thing. So far the average skill level of molten players is higher than retail despite everyone on molten seeming pretty terrible already. I'm sure rated BG's and arena are less stupid, but I won't know until I get there.

I'll have to wait and see what arena is like once I finish gearing in a few days. Yes a few days, doesn't even take months anymore. And then after you finish honor gear you can get conquest points without even waiting and finish gearing with BiS gear within 2 weeks. You don't even need a specific rating anymore. You get best in slot gear regardless of how well you do in arena.

Originally Posted by Arntonach

So by removing most of the RNG issues and making players rely less on gear the game's getting worse?

This to me is a positive change. The problem is at the same time they made the game also not rely on personal skill so that players of all skill levels can succeed.

[Arntonach]

Then I'm guessing that the game's in one of it's easy slumps. Don't worry, they'll get some heroics for you to bitch about how difficult they are in no time.

[choof]

I thought is was common knowledge that BGs were never a good measure of skill. And it never will be, you will always get random baddies who don't have macros and key-turn.

But ranked is a different story. Huuuuuge difference between a random queue and a pre-made.

Players of different skill levels will succeed, but saying you got top KBs in a random BG... who gives a shit rofl.

[devonin]

It's also the case that PvPers tend to want to think that they are the biggest/most important segment of the playerbase, but they don't realise that probably close to 30-40% of players never even TRY PVP, and the serious PvP Arena types are probably no more than 10-15% of the playerbase.

Almost everybody who plays WoW fucks around with 5-mans, and battle pets and farmville, and maybe does LFR.

The new expansion is already going to add to farmville, add to battle pets, and the content expansions are going to include new 5-man content every time as well as raids.