TWG XLIV Postgame X2 humans win!

[FishFishRevolution]

FictionJunction - human/human - lynched x1d1
X3R0H0UR - seer/human - wolfed x2n3
thunderstrike687 - human/human - lynched x2d2
DarkManticoreX2 - human/human - won x2d3
flawofhumanity - human/human - won x2d3
roundbox - human/guardian - won x2d3
StoicRoivaS - wolf/human - lynched x1d2
talisman - human/human - wolfed x1n3
rioting - guard/human - wolfed x2n2
iggymatrixcounter - human/human - wolfed x1n2
FoJaR - human/wolf - wolfed x1n1
Kilgamayan - wolf/wolf - lynched x1d3
Tps222 - human/wolf - lynched x2d3
DiscoBobbyPARANOiA - wolf/seer - won x2d3
Stella! - human/human - won x2d3
HansSky/pntballa - human/human - lynched x2d1

DPB really had this game in his hands. He wanted desperately to win it for the wolves, but there was no way he could do that by himself, so he ended up just lynching the x2 wolf and winning as a seer.

talisman was able to figure pretty much everyone out up until right before he died.

Apologies to kilga who had double seer before re-role distribution.

Double mvp to dpb and talisman.

Comments about dimensional games in general?

[X3R0H0UR]

i don't think cross dimensional worries are a big deal so finding a way to do that would be pretty good...

game talk: I wanna thank all the humans who talked me out of seering dbp, I as just about to anyway because the thought of a wolf/seer was going to bother me all game, and it did! Damn me for doubting myself.

I didn't seer kilga when we lynched him, humanity and I came up with the plan of using a false seering to get us info, and it was the most logical person to blame. When I found out we hit a wolf, it hit me that DBP had to be a wolf because there had to be a wolf/seer, because of who had survived as long as they did.

On myself: I know I made 3 big important mistakes, 2 things I said, and 1 thing I did, but I'd say I did alright, hopefully everyone agrees.

[DarkManticoreX2]

So there was really no rush to replace TPS because he was active, just not in the thread.

Hehe thunder was human

[iggymatrixcounter]

So tps was the very first green wolf eh?

I knew disco wouldn't be able to pull it off as a wolf XD.

[DiscoBobbyPARANOiA]

Originally Posted by iggymatrixcounter

So tps was the very first green wolf eh?

I knew disco wouldn't be able to pull it off as a wolf XD.

No, I did pull it off. I had the rest of the game planned out, and I had the support of the remaining players. Fish decided to change his mind about a few rules right at the end.

This game was complete crap.

I know I'm just disappointed because I couldn't win it for my team (wolves) but there's absolutely no reason that a game setup should not allow a win by the wolves. Here's how it worked:

I already seered tps red. I knew he was the last wolf, and I had it all planned out.

Lynch flaw/stella with the words "One of you is the last wolf/both of you"
Night kill manticore (my kill next)
Lynch the other of flaw/stella saying 'good game see you postgame guys'
then it's me/roundbox/tps going into night. tps either attacks me (guarded) or he attacks roundbox. Either way, we lynch him the next day (due to phantoms I could do it by myself.)
I win as x2 seer, situational tie-breaker clause kicks in and the game moves on. It goes past the lynch and parity hits and I win as wolf.

This was confirmed by fish to work (though it would have gone into super-secret tie breaker) but he decided to tell me like 6 hours later that it only works if x1 wins first. wtf is that ****? So just because I'm the last wolf in x1 means I CANNOT win? Glorious setup.

I'm counting it as a win as a wolf, and not caring what anyone says.

Also, here's my list of lols:
@fish telling me tps was the last wolf
@hans getting in the game
@kilga not really getting seered
@kilga being double wolf and fojar getting wolfed night one (we talked to you about this, right?)
@pnt pretty much saying 'yeah I was a wolf, good job' through pm when he was human.

[FishFishRevolution]

Originally Posted by DiscoBobbyPARANOiA

This was confirmed by fish to work (though it would have gone into super-secret tie breaker) but he decided to tell me like 6 hours later that it only works if x1 wins first. wtf is that ****? So just because I'm the last wolf in x1 means I CANNOT win? Glorious setup.

Except that tiebreaker clause was implemented to counter the fact that x2 wolves went second. if x2 and x1 wolves have had the same amount of days to win, and x2 has a victory, there's no conflict.

This is the situation where a tiebreaker would happen:
Host: "Okay you guys get 4 days each to win"

X1: K we did it in 3
X2: no wait =(

Host: Okay becuase x2 hasn't had their day 3 yet, and they could plausibly win, let's go into tiebreaker mode.

NOT this:

Host: "Okay you guys get 4 days each to win"

X2: k we did it in 3
X1: wait can i just have one more plz

Host: x1, you both were given the same amount of days to win, if x2 can do it in three, they win.

[DiscoBobbyPARANOiA]

Originally Posted by FishFishRevolution

Except that tiebreaker clause was implemented to counter the fact that x2 wolves went second. if x2 and x1 wolves have had the same amount of days to win, and x2 has a victory, there's no conflict.

This is the situation where a tiebreaker would happen:
Host: "Okay you guys get 4 days each to win"

X1: K we did it in 3
X2: no wait =(

Host: Okay becuase x2 hasn't had their day 3 yet, and they could plausibly win, let's go into tiebreaker mode.

NOT this:

Host: "Okay you guys get 4 days each to win"

X2: k we did it in 3
X1: wait can i just have one more plz

Host: x1, you both were given the same amount of days to win, if x2 can do it in three, they win.

Regardless of what the tiebreaker was made for there's absolutely no reason I should be unable to win as a wolf while still alive. Hell, you should have just said before the game 'if you lose two of your wolf buddies and there's a successful guard, x1 wolves, you can't win. Might as well stop trying'

I completely understand your rules, and why they are there, but something should have been done. A game being unwinable for a wolf still alive is retarded.

And honestly, if you would have let me go the tiebreaker route like you first said, not a SINGLE person would have brought this up. They would have said 'oh wow yeah he won' not 'well lets look through the rules and find a loophole...'

[DarkManticoreX2]

I was getting pretty suspicious of you in the end DBP, But kept my mouth shut. I was actually planning on going "Oh, hey x1 wolves. X2 is gonna win unless you kill DBP the seer or roundbox the guard." In that case I would be able to assure my survival unless one of the two of you were x1 wolves. I was hoping someone would be able to pick up on the fact that if I had died, either DBP or roundbox was the last guarenteed x1 wolf.

In other news, GJ thunder on lynching yourself when we had x2 won two days earlier. It is a bad idea to lynch yourself if you are human.

Oh and LOL at dbp making up like 400 seerings. I think DBP seered everyone like twice in this game.

[Kilgamayan]

This game was shit for me right from the beginning and I never recovered. I've never made so many stupid mistakes in my life.

If I were a quitting man, this would definitely be the time to go. I am unabashedly ashamed of my performance.

[FishFishRevolution]

Originally Posted by DiscoBobbyPARANOiA

Regardless of what the tiebreaker was made for there's absolutely no reason I should be unable to win as a wolf while still alive. Hell, you should have just said before the game 'if you lose two of your wolf buddies and there's a successful guard, x1 wolves, you can't win. Might as well stop trying'

I completely understand your rules, and why they are there, but something should have been done. A game being unwinable for a wolf still alive is retarded.

And honestly, if you would have let me go the tiebreaker route like you first said, not a SINGLE person would have brought this up. They would have said 'oh wow yeah he won' not 'well lets look through the rules and find a loophole...'

Because you're not just a wolf team against a human team. You have to beat the humans in your dimension, while racing against BOTH teams in the other dimension. With one wolf, it's less than likely to be able to do that. I suppose that may be a flaw that needs to be worked out.

[roundbox]

Well played by talisman.

I kept second guessing DBP's X1 identity, but I knew since I was guardian in X2 and he was seer in X2, he wouldn't want to wolf me because my role in X1 was simple human, and it'd be the most idiotic thing ever.

btw I guarded DBP X2N1 and he lived. Sweet.

[talisman]

yeah dbp, fish is right. If a victory occurs in x2, then it's final. If it occurs in x1 and there's a chance that it could occur in x2 the next day, then it's not.

kilga you weren't that ****ty. I didn't pick up on you until I started playing on the last day I was alive.

Speaking of which, my apologies for not really playing hard until that day. Getting and analyzing convos between people is sort of my main modus operandi, and I didn't really do it until the last day. I feel I probably could have gotten a better hold on the whole thunder/manticore/stella situation sooner if I had.

The other mistake I made was not following up on some things like contacting flaw to make sure that dbp had indeed seered him (as dbp told me he had, when he hadn't).

dbp gave himself away by leaving me alive... I knew he was the only one that would try to control me. this was confirmed when he was unable to produce convos with stoic, and claimed to have only had one.

speaking of which, everyone you ought to save your convos. It makes things much easier for humans if the wolves are forced to lie about who they've talked to or stage convos.

finally,

pntballa and thunder, do not ever admit to being a wolf / vote yourself out of the game if you're human. That could have royally screwed things over in terms of future analysis, especially with regards to pntballa.

overall, this was a good, active game. I hope all you newer players decide to stick with twg because you will make it more fun to play for all of us if you do.

[flawofhumanity]

I know I didn't exactly do a whole lot, but, I'd like to get some constructive critisism.

Also, good game. It was pretty fun, and I'd definitely play this setup again at a later time, especially with more/less roles.

[StoicRoivaS]

I can see the angle about "number of days" but when in doubt over a custom TWG set-up (read: time travel TWG), I've always found it most useful to think through the semantics of the game (big word, look it up) and make a decision based on how the situation would play out in "real life". It seems to me that we should look at the "wolves transform and slaughter the town scenario". If the humans know the last wolf, in either dimension, they should have their chance to lynch him, and if the wolves are unknown (and still alive, obviously) they should have their chance to outright attack, forcing the game to go one way or the other regardless of day counts. Just my two cents and what I would have done. Good game though. Apparently I can't help but rarely post as a wolf, for future reference. Of course it doesn't help when I have to repeatedly attempt to convince stella that DBP and I aren't wolves together while she's insisting that we clearly are.

If anyone wants to host a game after kilga's, I'd be glad to make a serious attempt at the game I've been thinking through and let them host it. Peace.

[Stella!]

Just a random side-note and probably nothing I really say will affect things but..

In my opinion, I think DBP took this game solely for himself. (in a good way)

He had a plan, and in either dimension, he was going to win. He had everything worked out and he talked to people well and got the votes to go his way and everything worked out the way he wanted.

Whereas Talisman..

He made accurate guesses. Changed his opinion. And was right about 90% of his guesses.

Talisman did good. Really.

But I sorta don't get why he got MVP too. Especially when DBP did something special to this type of set-up and sorta worked at things more than just, "Hey, he's acting wierd" and whatever.

Just.. my thoughts. >_>

But besides that (and Iggy supposedly leaving) I liked this game.

Except.. I really played it like I'd play any normal TWG set-up I think..

I.. forgot there were dimensions. I didn't notice which dimension we were in or whatever. And I couldn't pin who was a wolf in which dimension.. I was just suspicious of everything/everyone with no regard to either dimension.

But. I still liked it. And I wouldn't mind playing again sometime.

'Kay that's all.

[talisman]

I got mvp because fish likes me, I guess. I don't think I would have given it to myself since while I knew kilga and dbp at the end, I didn't manage to get that info out there to people. but whatever, mvp is really pretty meaningless unless you're all about the twgpenis.

[Kilgamayan]

Originally Posted by talisman

kilga you weren't that ****ty. I didn't pick up on you until I started playing on the last day I was alive.

It wasn't that I was acting like a wolf (this was about the only thing I did right), it's that I made all the wrong decisions.

- I banked on FJ being the X2 guardian for some dumb reason, which was why I approved the X2N1 DBP attack.
- DBP told me X1D2 that roundbox was the X2 guardian. I never told Tps this.
- I thought it was plain as day that X3RO was going to seer me X1N3 and when DBP sent in the talisman kill without consulting me I assumed he had stabbed me in the back (which I had been waiting for for at least a day) and spent the rest of the day trying to spite him back (rather than trying to win, which I could have still done if I had stopped to think rationally) because I "knew" Tps was doomed and if I was going to lose either way then hell if I wasn't going to take DBP down with me. Unfortunately I took the stupid route and decided this AFTER trying to stay alive with that dumbfuck story. End result = DBP gets a win and I lose while looking ridiculous in the process. Good thing I'm an Aya Shameimaru fan because I know what crow I'd like to eat if given the choice.
- Even with my certain doom, I still didn't tell Tps that roundbox was the X2 guardian and sent a pre-death kill in for him. As luck would have it Tps actually showed up to send Fish a different kill that night. The game was academic at that point, but it was still a nice cherry for the shit cake I had spent all game building.

[pntballa18]

Originally Posted by talisman

pntballa and thunder, do not ever admit to being a wolf / vote yourself out of the game if you're human. That could have royally screwed things over in terms of future analysis, especially with regards to pntballa.

It's not my fault no one was listening to me. I explained myself multiple times in the thread, and all anyone would say was "yeah, nice try, we all know you're a wolf" no matter what I would say. I didn't feel like wasting my time.

[pntballa18]

Originally Posted by DiscoBobbyPARANOiA

@pnt pretty much saying 'yeah I was a wolf, good job' through pm when he was human.

!=

Originally Posted by my pm

i would do the same thing, because i also use the shock tactic. just so you know, it only caught a wolf once.

I don't see where you got that from. what I was saying was that the shock tactic (which is what you "caught" me with) doesn't always work, and that infact it usually doesn't work.

[x3Mamimi]

@ Talisman: we would have won that day tps almost got lynched if you hadn't talked me out of it >_<