KONY 2012

[welsh_girl]

I am slightly more concerned about my Birthday on the 19th

[Cavernio]

You know what pisses me off the most about this?

Everyone touting that dumb-ass they only spent 32% of their profits on the organization when ITT there's an ACTUAL LINK to 2 separate budgets of theirs, NEITHER OF WHICH indicate this infamous 32% BS.
Yet here we are, people still pissed off at the 'corrupt' organization because some twat doesn't understand what a column is.

Also, third post re the bogus numbers.

Also, pretty much anyone who's argued against this movement, I already made a counter-argument for your specific dislike.

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Also, pretty much anyone who's argued against this movement, I already made a counter-argument for your specific dislike.

Counter-argument against a personal opinion !!

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

You know what pisses me off the most about this?

Everyone touting that dumb-ass they only spent 32% of their profits on the organization when ITT there's an ACTUAL LINK to 2 separate budgets of theirs, NEITHER OF WHICH indicate this infamous 32% BS.
Yet here we are, people still pissed off at the 'corrupt' organization because some twat doesn't understand what a column is.

Also, third post re the bogus numbers.

Also, pretty much anyone who's argued against this movement, I already made a counter-argument for your specific dislike.

http://c2052482.r82.cf0.rackcdn.com/...pdf?1320205055

Page 6

2810681/8676614

[Cavernio]

What do you think the Program column represents? What do you think the Development column represents?

Yep, it's my opinion that if you did give a shit about this, you'd actually do something about it instead of balk about people who are trying to.
The only reason to not support this movement is if it will make things worse, and I've yet to read even the biggest cynics say that. The closest thing to that worry would be if the Ugandan military were empowered so much that they'd start their own reign of terror worse than kidnapping children, which seems highly, highly unlikely. Reports of rape and displacement (does anyone know why people were displaced for what circumstances and when? No. It could have been for people's own protection for all we know, people will complain about everything) isn't exactly the same; most men who live in that area have probably raped someone. Since you think we should be doing something else, why don't you write your elected representative with what you'd like to see them do? Or is that also bad simply because the video suggested it.

I don't know where the guilt thing is coming from either, the video is far less guilt inducing than pretty much any foreign aid add that they show on tv. It's empowering, and empowerment has nothing to do with alleviating guilt. If you feel like I'm guilting you, that's not my problem.

Cynicism isn't helping, and in your case it doesn't particularly make sense choofers, because prior to this thread, no one gave a shit/knew about this, yet you are against the ONLY thing that has brought an issue that you say you care about to people's minds.

[Aldentron]

here is IC's response to all the criticism they've gotten:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/www.invisibl...critiques.html

Cavernio, try looking at it from the same perspective that you would look at North Korea. these kids are brainwashed and armed. IC's plan is to get American forces to intervene, putting american soldiers at risk of being killed by the same children they're attempting to liberate. IC's course of action is flawed, especially because they are trying to petition an apathetic american government which has more "important" wars to worry about. drug war, class war, war on women, etc. etc. etc...

As for the action kit, it sounds like you're basically just buying merchandise for $30.

[t-rogdor]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Also, pretty much anyone who's argued against this movement, I already made a counter-argument for your specific dislike.

making an argument ≠ being correct

it doesn't matter if you made a counter-argument if your point is garbage


also +1 to aldentron's post

[flipsta_lombax]

This link will fix everything:

http://www.globalgiving.org/dy/v2/co...untry%3AUganda

[Kibblre]

Originally Posted by welsh_girl

I am slightly more concerned about my Birthday on the 19th

Wait, March 19th? We have the same birthday =O

On topic: I support the movement, but dislike some of the people who do. Yes, you can like the Facebook page, but don't yell at me to do dumb things like liking something on Facebook. I don't think anybody supports the other end of the issue; we all know it without liking something on Facebook.

[Cavernio]

It's not just about liberating those kids currently in the army. It's also about preventing more kidnappings. And forgive me if this rubs someone the wrong way, but if you're in the military, you expect to be put on missions that are dangerous and life-threatening. No one joins the military in canada or the us without expecting and probably wanting to be some sort of a hero. The whole 'you're putting US troops at risk' is a poor standalone argument.

The north korea comparison isn't great...North Korea is an entire country that has a government. Furthermore, the problems that north korea has aren't even fully that it's being run by a dictator, but that the dictator has done a terrible job. Even if taking over north korea were easily and safely done (neither of which is true), it's not clear that that would be even a good course of action; it's not like the US, particularly US military, knows the perfect way to run a country. Even with brainwashed adult north koreans (heh, used in that context, all americans are brainwashed too, as is everyone,) they have education and like everyone, would want to rule themselves.

But what I like about this whole Kony 2012 movement is that it's not trying to solve all the political and social problems of the countries involved. It's simply about ending 1 clearly bad thing, and there's some regular-type foreign aid involved too, if you choose to.

I think IC's course of action is brilliant because they're petitioning an apathetic government and have actually made headway...they've even got me talking about it. Yes yes, there were already us troops in the area. But most importantly, they have gotten acknowledged, which is an indication that more of a push on our governments could make the difference.

Yeah, 'shut up' is a real intelligent counter-argument trogdor. Also, nitpicking about points that skirt the main issue is also a winning strategy.

[Hakulyte]

I don't really have much to say about the moralistic video and the lol let's propaganda kits marketing. My only problem is this:

“Not for Self Defense but Because it was Right”

Obligatory: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...ad.php?t=65553

Originally Posted by some random blog

IN THIS CONTEXT regarding Joseph Kony and his crimes it is applicable but the thing people are failing to see is there is ALWAYS a precedent that is set. This is a benchmark suggesting that the US in the future would NO LONGER be forced to remain out of other nations affairs. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. It is in THIS CASE, but one must look at the bigger picture. Did you ever stop and wonder why the US kept out of other nations affairs? It was because of freedom, it was so that other nations could live and prosper under their own government systems. It is EASY to point and say we should fix something when it is blatantly failing as it is with Kony but my fear is that this now will give the US the precedent and power to go into other countries that do not need any intervention of any kind but will be imposed of it anyway.

Sounds familiar? Hello? btw, I'm not saying that what is happening is wrong, I'm just saying that once again, it is not done properly.

[mrpreggers]

You'd think people would have at least heard about this when Obama sent troops to Uganda a couple of months ago and it made national headlines in America :/ Why is this so widespread all of a sudden?

[t-rogdor]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

Yeah, 'shut up' is a real intelligent counter-argument trogdor. Also, nitpicking about points that skirt the main issue is also a winning strategy.

lol, you got me. i was rushed and didn't want to argue those points.

but you've seriously got a screw loose if you think i was just nitpicking. the simple fact of the matter is that these kids that everyone cares about are going to be killed, if not detained, AND this "donation money" is going to pursuits that are not explicitly stated by the corporation.

ALSO http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/843...d-to-criticism

We don't like war — we want to end war. I'm a pacifist at heart

this is literally the same thing as saying HEY GUYS MURDER IS BAD. LET'S STOP MURDERING, OK?. Murder 2012: We Will Stop it. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't care about the movement. furthermore, who the hell puts an END DATE on a movement? These guys are in it for the money. I love and respect that you want to make a difference, but making it through Invisible Children is a dumb move on your part. Please try to rethink your decision.

but honestly, i don't care anymore; you've made your point that you're adamant in your stance. good for you. have fun making a "difference". i'm out

[t-rogdor]

ps


gg Invisible Children

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

What do you think the Program column represents? What do you think the Development column represents?

Yep, it's my opinion that if you did give a shit about this, you'd actually do something about it instead of balk about people who are trying to.
The only reason to not support this movement is if it will make things worse, and I've yet to read even the biggest cynics say that. The closest thing to that worry would be if the Ugandan military were empowered so much that they'd start their own reign of terror worse than kidnapping children, which seems highly, highly unlikely. Reports of rape and displacement (does anyone know why people were displaced for what circumstances and when? No. It could have been for people's own protection for all we know, people will complain about everything) isn't exactly the same; most men who live in that area have probably raped someone. Since you think we should be doing something else, why don't you write your elected representative with what you'd like to see them do? Or is that also bad simply because the video suggested it.

I don't know where the guilt thing is coming from either, the video is far less guilt inducing than pretty much any foreign aid add that they show on tv. It's empowering, and empowerment has nothing to do with alleviating guilt. If you feel like I'm guilting you, that's not my problem.

Cynicism isn't helping, and in your case it doesn't particularly make sense choofers, because prior to this thread, no one gave a shit/knew about this, yet you are against the ONLY thing that has brought an issue that you say you care about to people's minds.

What on earth are you arguing? This isn't a matter of your opinion. The numbers are explicit and you have absolutely zero room to debate here. Actually look at how everything is broken down. 32% is absolutely correct. End-of-story. There's a good reason why they've fought so hard to try to hide their finances. Legitimate donation structures typically have no problem complying to such standards. Hhhhhmmmm.

IC spends over a million a year on media. Over a million on travel -- if you look this up via other sources you will see it is because they are always flying first class. All they're doing is financing the UA... which is guilty of much of the same shit Kony is. This breeds a dangerous mentality -- millions now want Kony killed. Arming the Ugandan military to capture Kony will have horrible long-term consequences. Back in the 70's and 80's, we armed Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc... look at what happened.

Long story short, this is an extreme abuse of donations and taking advantage of non-profit status to receive tax exemptions.

The video also tries to take credit for Obama sending 100 advisors to Uganda, which is false (it was a continuation of an anti-LRA campaign that started during the Bush era):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44906278.../#.T1iSCfW1WuM

"Indeed, the US military has been instrumental in trying to hunt down Kony for years now. According to Foreign Affairs, U.S. Africa Command (AFRICOM) has been on several missions to kill or capture Kony. Each mission was a failure for several reasons."
http://communities.washingtontimes.c...-kony-justice/

Another lie: Kony commands 30k child troops -- it's more like a few thousand at best. Still unacceptable, but it's misleading to take things out of context.
http://www.irinnews.org/InDepthMain....ReportId=72446

Also, the LRA has been disbanded and Kony has been on the run since like 2005 or so when he was indicted for war crimes by the ICC. No reason to throw away your money to support this organization to drum up support for a cause needed ~7 years ago. Kony and the LRA ran away to Sudan and other countries, but Yoweri Museveni (the corrupt dictator of Uganda) unnecessarily prodded and poked at the LRA, provoking more attacks. In conclusion, all of the leaders in Central Africa are corrupt and screwed up. Not just Kony. He's one piece of the problem; not the entire problem.

I mean **** just read what Ugandan citizens are saying about the whole thing: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...over-film.html

So yeah, some things are bad and worth fixing, absolutely. But "raising awareness" and giving money to a group that will take a disproportionate cut and abuse the donation structure is highly unethical.

-If you disagree, feel free to send me $1000. I'll donate $320 of it. This deal is open to everyone.

Inciting violence to end violence has never been the answer. Remember when Saddam was captured, tried, and executed (i.e. brought to justice) many years ago and people thought that Iraq would magically fix itself?

[phe0nixblade]

and rubix just wrecked caverino

[i love you]

I will admit, that video really got me. At least now, I learned something today. Next time, I will be sure to do some research first before ever deciding rather to support some company or not. Thank goodness I did not waste 30 bucks on some kit.

EDIT: @Cavernio: I really hope you will consider to not arguing anymore. You are entitled to your own opinion however if you are going to argue about something then at least have some valid facts to support your argument rather then just saying stuff without actually doing the research first.

[hi19hi19]

This thread has gotten about as retarded as the movement itself lmao
Read rubix's post, feel stupid for getting scammed out of $30, stop falling for this shit, move on with your lives.

[midnghtraver]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

This thread has gotten about as retarded as the movement itself lmao
Read rubix's post, feel stupid for getting scammed out of $30, stop falling for this shit, move on with your lives.

You guys made my thread dumb

[robertsona]

i actually had no idea that the guy in that "i give up" gif was neil degrasse tyson until like right now