The Fitness Thread

[LLaMaSaUceYup]

@Infinity Animals are getting fed food that were not even 'meant' to eat in the first place + genetic modification.

Originally Posted by top

even "street" drugs can be beneficial in small doses. people blow shit out of proportion a lot.

Agreed.

Psychedelics yes, Pharmaceuticals, No....

[infinity.]

Originally Posted by LLaMaSaUceYup

@Infinity Animals are getting fed food that were not even 'meant' to eat in the first place + genetic modification.


Agreed.

Psychedelics yes, Pharmaceuticals, No....

i am a very staunch environmentalist and had to do a term project on GMOs. i went in with the same mentality and learned after doing 10 minutes of research that there is really no problem at a very base level so long as the product is not genetically malicious

also GMOs have tons of profitable and beneficial capacities -- feeding the hungry, creating bigger yields, cheaper production, fending off bugs and whatever

though zombie food is a popular argument it's unfounded and based on irrational fears

[LLaMaSaUceYup]

Well what do you think about roundup?

[Cavernio]

Originally Posted by infinity.

i am a very staunch environmentalist and had to do a term project on GMOs. i went in with the same mentality and learned after doing 10 minutes of research that there is really no problem at a very base level so long as the product is not genetically malicious

also GMOs have tons of profitable and beneficial capacities -- feeding the hungry, creating bigger yields, cheaper production, fending off bugs and whatever

though zombie food is a popular argument it's unfounded and based on irrational fears

You can't even read a paper in 10 minutes. The controversy with GMO's is far deeper than people just worrying about them being zombie food (this is the first I'd heard of that myself actually). It was sprung because some studies found that they ARE in fact harmful. The shit-storm that has ensued from that is spectacular, one side saying the studies were so poorly done as to be useless, and then having them removed from peer-reviewed journals, and then firing people over them, while the other side claims that they are being silenced and bullied by Monsanto. Whatever side you believe is one thing...to not have found the controversy and explored both sides is quite another. I hope this wasn't university/college level work you did.
Beyond that though, there is a huge social aspect to this because Monsanto, the main proponent of GMO's, has strong-manned their way into the agriculture of developing countries. This outwardly is fine and all, to offer their own seeds for people to use, but then it goes and ensures that if the farmers want to switch back to their old product, they can't because they aren't allowed to keep their old crops' seeds. Lack of diversity in agriculture is really risky, if some disease attacks the crop, it'll get ALL the crop. It's also death to the soil, always producing the same crop.

By far the biggest problem that I see with most GMO's is that they're produced by the same company that then sells round-up, (that pesticide that's killing all the bees), and of the course the GMO plants are modified so that they don't die when sprayed roundup. You have 1 company basically selling to itself, and taking control over large swaths of agriculture. I myself am worried about other issues, that some of the GMO plants that kills insects that eat the plant could also damage other animals including people, but I at least can understand if you aren't worried about that given the studies we have access to.

My opinion is that Monsanto is pulling the wool over everyone's eyes, much like Eli Lily did when it made Prozac, picking and choosing what studies to present to the FDA, and are actually being aggressive towards people who say otherwise.

[Reach]

It was sprung because some studies found that they ARE in fact harmful

Links.

Every food is a 'GMO'. They've all been genetically modified through selective breeding. The difference here is more traditional GMOs have gene sequences cut from them by enzymes and a different code inserted.

Saying GMOs is bad doesn't really make any sense because it depends on the nature of the substitution. Beneficial substations can be made and I haven't read a single iota of evidence suggesting the mere act of swapping genes makes the food harmful, since that would make ...every food harmful since they swap genes all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with laboratory work.

[infinity.]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

You can't even read a paper in 10 minutes. The controversy with GMO's is far deeper than people just worrying about them being zombie food (this is the first I'd heard of that myself actually). It was sprung because some studies found that they ARE in fact harmful. The shit-storm that has ensued from that is spectacular, one side saying the studies were so poorly done as to be useless, and then having them removed from peer-reviewed journals, and then firing people over them, while the other side claims that they are being silenced and bullied by Monsanto. Whatever side you believe is one thing...to not have found the controversy and explored both sides is quite another. I hope this wasn't university/college level work you did.
Beyond that though, there is a huge social aspect to this because Monsanto, the main proponent of GMO's, has strong-manned their way into the agriculture of developing countries. This outwardly is fine and all, to offer their own seeds for people to use, but then it goes and ensures that if the farmers want to switch back to their old product, they can't because they aren't allowed to keep their old crops' seeds. Lack of diversity in agriculture is really risky, if some disease attacks the crop, it'll get ALL the crop. It's also death to the soil, always producing the same crop.

By far the biggest problem that I see with most GMO's is that they're produced by the same company that then sells round-up, (that pesticide that's killing all the bees), and of the course the GMO plants are modified so that they don't die when sprayed roundup. You have 1 company basically selling to itself, and taking control over large swaths of agriculture. I myself am worried about other issues, that some of the GMO plants that kills insects that eat the plant could also damage other animals including people, but I at least can understand if you aren't worried about that given the studies we have access to.

My opinion is that Monsanto is pulling the wool over everyone's eyes, much like Eli Lily did when it made Prozac, picking and choosing what studies to present to the FDA, and are actually being aggressive towards people who say otherwise.

ugh it's like you've read approximately nothing and formed an opinion

and i wrote a 30 page paper on the ethical permissibility of GMOs, so it might be college level work but iunno you can tell me if you want

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

It's like you don't even read what I write. You totally missed my point. You aren't against anything I said.

Believe me, I read what you said. Your post was riddled with things that could be addressed, but I'll just hit the big ones:

You lead off with "there are multiple problems when going by such studies in regards to toxicity" which ignores reality: It's not like only "obvious, serious issues" are tested for and then everything else gets disregarded in turn.

I'm also not sure what your intent is with "I presume any doctor who advocates snake oil is taking advantage of the positive side of placebo," but I am guessing you're implying that since the placebo effect can have a "positive side," therefore it's OK to sell snake oil.

Your post made it sound like there was still plausible/significant doubt somewhere within the science when it's not the case. If I've misread you then I apologize, but that's how your post came across to me.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

It was sprung because some studies found that they ARE in fact harmful.

However when you say totally unsubstantiated horse-shit like this, it only makes me more confident that you DID mean what I suggested above.

Like Reach said, it doesn't make sense to say that "GMOs are harmful." It reminds me of when people say "I don't want chemicals in my food! I only want natural ingredients!" ...what? Practically everything in your food is a chemical of some sort. And there's plenty of "natural" stuff that'll kill you, too.

Unfortunately, when many people think "chemical," they think of a test tube full of crazy, poisonous shit. This is the same kind of thought process that goes behind the GMO fearmongering-BS. A lot of it is argument from ignorance. They don't understand it fully, so they fear it and look for any reason they can to justify that fear, no matter how tenuous the rationale.

And yeah, Monsanto has done some sketchy things. But to bash GMOs for Monsanto's business practices is like saying high-speed internet sucks and is something we shouldn't pursue because Verizon is run by dillholes.

[SCWolf]

I'm learning

[Poison-]

I thought this was a fitness thread :/

[Choofers]

gotta flex our internet muscles too sometimes

[Senip]

Sigh, bumping it back one more month. Basically got all the shreds, but my skin is drooping, so he wants me to wait and maintain so that I go in looking freaky.

[Reach]

You're competing Senip? First time?

[Arch0wl]

saw a 2-month cut a guy did of 30 days Trenbolone Acetate + Testosterone Propionate followed by 30 days Tren + Test Prop + Clenbuterol + Masteron, it was unbelievable

I went through anguish doing a 6-month cut and that guy does basically the same thing in 30 days, if that

holy christ

[Frank Munoz]

Any one have any "diagnostics" for me here?

I recently went running today at around 3pm,
I also was recently diagnosed with exercised induced asthma, and I suppose it is noticeable... but not to the extreme, until now I guess.

Thing is, I didn't have too much trouble breathing, but I couldn't hear after my second rep of jogging for a few minutes,
and my vision became intensely saturated.

I also became extremely nauseated and that was really the worst part of my little episode because of the pain, but this happens almost everytime I overdo a physical activity.

I also drank a good amount of water, but I still feel that this was a type of heat flash; just this time it was nearly unbearable.

I'm still doing some research but if yall' have any information on this it would be helpful

[Cavernio]

Do you know how many foods qualify as GMO's? Not very many. I'm not talking about cross-breeding, or hypothetical GMO's not in existence. I use the term GMO as it qualifies to the ones that are in use today, which is why I then go into stuff about the main company that pushes GMO's. I would have thought that that was obvious in my post to anyone who's read about the current controversy about GMO's. Context.

I'm not trying to shit information about GMO's, I'm trying to figure out exactly how infinity got his information WITHOUT coming across the points I raised. What were your sources for your paper? Who funded the studies you read? Did you specifically ignore other information you came across due to their sources?

If you've read nothing about them, or ignore one side because it's 'obviously retarded' or whatever, then it doesn't matter at all what I say, as I can't see how I will be considered any differently than the information you read before.

Reach: the very popular, now out-of-date genetic roulette is a starting point that I figure you'd have already encountered if you've read anything about this. Not too hard to find a bazillion for and against using that as a starting point. I don't have specific links, as when I was reading about it I didn't make a folder and bookmark them.



Thread related: diy reno = weight loss. Save money, pretty house AND lose weight? Yeah....just ignore carpal tunnel and cubital tunnel.

Digestion just won't work if you're exercising a lot, including fluids. Drink a lot like 20min or more before exercise and not much/any during, should help with the nausea. I don't know what saturated vision is, but when my heartbeat is really strong (not just from exercise, randomly spikes for me), I can get pulsating hearing, with one end of the pulse being no hearing.

[Choofers]

GMOs

[mnnicol]

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

saw a 2-month cut a guy did of 30 days Trenbolone Acetate + Testosterone Propionate followed by 30 days Tren + Test Prop + Clenbuterol + Masteron, it was unbelievable

I went through anguish doing a 6-month cut and that guy does basically the same thing in 30 days, if that

holy christ

But you feel much more accomplished doing it naturally, right? Gotta do it for yourself!

[SCWolf]

Originally Posted by Frank Munoz

Any one have any "diagnostics" for me here?

I recently went running today at around 3pm,
I also was recently diagnosed with exercised induced asthma, and I suppose it is noticeable... but not to the extreme, until now I guess.

Thing is, I didn't have too much trouble breathing, but I couldn't hear after my second rep of jogging for a few minutes,
and my vision became intensely saturated.

I also became extremely nauseated and that was really the worst part of my little episode because of the pain, but this happens almost everytime I overdo a physical activity.

I also drank a good amount of water, but I still feel that this was a type of heat flash; just this time it was nearly unbearable.

I'm still doing some research but if yall' have any information on this it would be helpful

Do low intensity steady state cardio. Pace yourself. Try a brisk, inclined walk first. Build up to more intense cardio. If your main focus with cardio is just burning calories, LISS should suffice realistically.

[Frank Munoz]

Originally Posted by SCWolf

Do low intensity steady state cardio. Pace yourself. Try a brisk, inclined walk first. Build up to more intense cardio. If your main focus with cardio is just burning calories, LISS should suffice realistically.

Man I feel so behind in cardio..
I honestly jogged for no more than 2 minutes and then that happened
and even then I was trying to do low intensity but now I gotta take it even slower.

My main intention was just to not get tired so easily

[Arch0wl]

Originally Posted by mnnicol

But you feel much more accomplished doing it naturally, right? Gotta do it for yourself!

eh, this might sound bad but I am indifferent

I'd be a hypocrite if I was okay with brain enhancement but not bodily enhancement. steroids strike me as human augmentation, a la transhumanism / Deus Ex HR; the muscular version of what we've been trying to do with our brains for decades. it seems arbitrary to reject one but not the other.

the main reason I am natural is because I don't know where I'd find a source who wouldn't sell me donkey urine in a vial or something, there is no quality control