Old 02-18-2013, 05:12 AM   #221
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Default Re: Atheism/Theism thread

Also I want to post this.
http://www.fstdt.com/

There are some hilarious quotes on the top 100 page. Actually, they're all hilarious.

"Mathematics is also great proof of God. How is it possible that:

98
x72

can be figured out by carrying a digit over the top? What if that didn't work? How would we multiply without calculators?

If carrying over the one on top of the 9 did not work, how would we multiply? Seems awfully convenient to me that it "just happened" like that?"
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:22 AM   #222
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"No, God's Penis is not a biological organ. I never said God's Penis was the same as man's penis. Obviously it wouldn't be. That is why I pointed out God has a Holy, Righteous Penis. That is to say, it's not the same as man's corrupted, fleshy one. "

what
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:37 PM   #223
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Default Re: Atheism/Theism thread

"God exists in everyone. Do I think atheists are bad people? Absolutely not. Do I think they are currently lost? Absolutely."

If you didn't emotionally feel God's love, would you still believe in God? If you never felt good when you prayed, if you lost the ability to love, would you still believe in God?

I lost my religion not because I suddenly thought 'God probably doesn't exist'. I thought that God probably didn't exist long before. I believed in God because god felt so damned real. I lost faith because of physiological problems and I got very depressed. I looked for God for a long time after that, quite a few years, before having to accept that all that wonderful emotion I felt was NOT God existing in me but me fooling myself, or in others words me perhaps just me loving myself through imagination. Beliefs are very strong and they ultimately reside in your emotions. If you never got emotionally attached to God, you wouldn't have faith, and I can't imagine why you'd ever follow a religion. That becomes so clear when you lose your emotions or they go all wonky.

I'm sure at this point you're going to pray for my soul or some such no matter what I say jj, but I just can't believe such crazy stuff like Jesus was God's son and when he died our sins are forgiven. Am I lost? No.

Devonin, you have a very jaded view of belief in God, and you seem to fail to understand that most people who believe in God have the ultimate thing that everyone wants in life, love. Forever, always, undying love. Forget about all the bullshit, about all the rules and weird beliefs. All that matters to them is that they're in love with the supreme being of all existence, and they feel God's love back.
What you say about fear is true for some people and for much of christianity so I understand, but my church never fed us fear. Can't bring to mind a single instance.
If you want to make a religious person not have faith, it's like trying to tell someone not to love their kid. It's not going to happen unless some sort of serious bubble is broken for them personally.
I suspect that for most people there's the possibility that God may exist is more than enough to make someone believe the feelings they'd have planted in them since they were kids have to be because of God. Also doesn't help that there's plenty of mystique in existence.


JJ, I get that people aren't perfect, that we know next to nothing, etc, that we can't trust ourselves to possibly even know what the BEST thing is in terms of morality. I even get that that means we have to put our trust in God...if God were something that actually exists. Atheists can accept that we don't know, that we can't fathom so many things. But they don't accept that that means there HAS to be something out there that knows us and that has a plan. It seems like you're restricting your mind because it's too hard to not believe in God. If you can accept that God just exists and has no beginning or end, then it's no harder to accept those same things of existence.

One last thing, fundamentalist christianity's not going to die in the US. They don't believe in birth control.

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Old 02-18-2013, 01:57 PM   #224
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Default Re: Atheism/Theism thread

I want to tell you guys a little story.

Many years ago I got stranded in a parking lot because my car wouldn't start. I had no phone and it was a neighborhood that I was not familiar with. I had nowhere to go or call. All of a sudden after sitting in the parking lot for about 20 mins, a tow truck comes down the street and sees me.

The guy said to me, "Boy you are very lucky. I never ever ever ever come down this street. Usually I turn on the street before this one every night but I missed it tonight so I made the next right. This never happened in all my 20 years on the job."

To me, that was God sending me help despite the fact he is still remaining hidden and I can't see Him anywhere.

How else can someone explain that? A guy decided to come down a street he never turned down in 20 years and it just happened to be at the exact moment I was stuck? What if he turned down the street before that like he did every night for 20 years?

He even told me "I don't know how I missed that turn. Usually it's like clockwork and I don't even have to think about it."
Obviously god exsists.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:21 PM   #225
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Devonin, you have a very jaded view of belief in God, and you seem to fail to understand that most people who believe in God have the ultimate thing that everyone wants in life, love. Forever, always, undying love. Forget about all the bullshit, about all the rules and weird beliefs. All that matters to them is that they're in love with the supreme being of all existence, and they feel God's love back.
What you say about fear is true for some people and for much of christianity so I understand, but my church never fed us fear. Can't bring to mind a single instance.
If you want to make a religious person not have faith, it's like trying to tell someone not to love their kid. It's not going to happen unless some sort of serious bubble is broken for them personally.
I suspect that for most people there's the possibility that God may exist is more than enough to make someone believe the feelings they'd have planted in them since they were kids have to be because of God. Also doesn't help that there's plenty of mystique in existence.
What you say about the emotional attachment to religion is quite interesting and also very true for many people, but please do remember that the same people who are in undying love with god may also fall prey to the fear of the punishment. The great love of god is even sometimes used to justify actions that are in normal occasions by the same people deemed as sinful. Coercition through emotional channels goes both ways.

The point is, whether one, or the other, or both are in effect for one person, that one person is in a big loophole. Moral values aren't really understood and radicated inside them, they are rather accepted as a whole with the faith, similarly to how you would accept a license of agreement. That's what makes it so dangerous.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:42 PM   #226
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Default Re: Atheism/Theism thread

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Originally Posted by BOSS_pjpaveloffga View Post
I want to tell you guys a little story...
You just got lucky. It's a coincidence.

I see religion is an anthropomorphic concept.
When one cannot understand something about life, it is rassuring to simplify by a notion you can understand such as christianity or God for example.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:53 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOSS_pjpaveloffga View Post
I want to tell you guys a little story.

Many years ago I got stranded in a parking lot because my car wouldn't start. I had no phone and it was a neighborhood that I was not familiar with. I had nowhere to go or call. All of a sudden after sitting in the parking lot for about 20 mins, a tow truck comes down the street and sees me.

The guy said to me, "Boy you are very lucky. I never ever ever ever come down this street. Usually I turn on the street before this one every night but I missed it tonight so I made the next right. This never happened in all my 20 years on the job."

To me, that was God sending me help despite the fact he is still remaining hidden and I can't see Him anywhere.

How else can someone explain that? A guy decided to come down a street he never turned down in 20 years and it just happened to be at the exact moment I was stuck? What if he turned down the street before that like he did every night for 20 years?

He even told me "I don't know how I missed that turn. Usually it's like clockwork and I don't even have to think about it."
Obviously god exsists.
Coincidence.

Believe it or not, rare events happen all the time when you have a sufficiently large number of trials. By that I mean if you were to just blindly throw a basketball over your head across the court many many times, you'd make a couple shots by sheer luck alone. Of course, you ignore all the times you miss, and only pay attention to when you make it and say that somehow God was involved.

Same applies to that situation you speak of -- it's lucky that the guy made a wrong turn when you happened to be stuck, but you are ignoring all the other times when no external help was present when you were in a bind (which happens a lot more often).

It's sort of like when people use this reasoning:
"I prayed for a sunny day and I got a sunny day. God responded to my prayer!"
"I prayed for a sunny day and got a rainy day / nothing changed. God works in mysterious ways and must be punishing me for my selfishness."

In the end, the entire framework is totally indistinguishable from chance, which means the situation with God is exactly the same as the situation without God.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:55 PM   #228
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Default Re: Atheism/Theism thread

I do not demand evidence. If an atheist had my experience, they would chalk it up to an extremely coincidental coincidence and get on with their day while saying "still no evidence for God" while God does a facepalm.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:59 PM   #229
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I do not demand evidence. If an atheist had my experience, they would chalk it up to an extremely coincidental coincidence and get on with their day while saying "still no evidence for God" while God does a facepalm.

Do you understand what is meant by the phrase "the situation without God is indistinguishable from chance / a situation without God"?
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:05 PM   #230
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Do you understand what is meant by the phrase "the situation without God is indistinguishable from chance / a situation without God"?
Obviously just some atheist way of discrediting my miracle
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:05 PM   #231
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Obviously just some atheist way of discrediting my miracle
Okay this thread is devolving into trollbait, fuck it lmfao
(as if it hadn't already)
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:07 PM   #232
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Default Re: Atheism/Theism thread

You guys... that was obviously a troll.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:08 PM   #233
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You guys... that was obviously a troll.
Poe's Law, man.

It's seriously impossible to tell them apart anymore because so many of them actually use those arguments
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:08 PM   #234
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Default Re: Atheism/Theism thread

herp
http://www.freeratio.org/showthread....62#post6863162
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:48 PM   #235
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Default Re: Atheism/Theism thread

When an atheist rejects belief in God, he rejects any source of confidence beyond his own level of reasoning or understanding. The thinking atheist will forever be questioning the origin of the universe, will be perplexed regarding morality, and will be unsure of his own destiny and purpose in life.

I know a Christian who had a friend who was an atheist. As the two discussed the issue of atheism vs. Christianity, the Christian man showed the atheist a passage in Romans 1. Romans 1 explains that so-called atheists, among others, actually “by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them” (Rom. 1:18-19). How has God shown Himself to them? “His invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew god, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools.” The Christian told the atheist, “The reason you don’t believe in God is that you don’t want to.”
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:03 PM   #236
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Default Re: Atheism/Theism thread

the reason i dont believe in god is because i have no reason to lol.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:10 PM   #237
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When an atheist rejects belief in God, he rejects any source of confidence beyond his own level of reasoning or understanding. The thinking atheist will forever be questioning the origin of the universe, will be perplexed regarding morality, and will be unsure of his own destiny and purpose in life.
I am a thinking "atheist". I don't reject God, though I don't believe in any. I wish to "believe" in what seems most reasonable to me, and yes, sometimes, this is subject to change! I love thinking about this stuff. I have written some text on it, in a mathematically reasoning method, and came to a few conclusions, one of which being that believing in a deity (and the surrounding teachings and morality) may be a positive impact on your life, but it is "silly" considering no sufficient proof can ever be given to support such a belief.

There are so many different religions, and there as so many possible religions, and only maximally one of them can be right. The odds to pick the wrong one are just too big. Just from a rational perspective: if there exists some deity or multiple deities, odds are almost 100% we're having the wrong ideas about how they are, think, and operate, because He/She/It/They would be divine, and we are not.

Any person who can think well for himself will question whether or not God exists or not - regardless of their religious backgrounds, and come to some conclusion later. I never saw the point in believing in a God, because even if He exists... why doesn't he just clearly show himself to everyone, and let everybody be happy, when he's so omnipotent? Why, for example, would he allow evil to exist? If there is a God, he must be (mainly) malevolent, and I prefer not to live by such a standard.

Now, what I think the most important thing about religion as a whole is the following. People can believe in what ever the fuck they want. Why does anyone give a shit about what someone else believes?

Atheists - if a Christian is happy to believe in God, and finds a nice wellbeing and lives the good life by trusting in God and doing things as the Bible tells them, who the fuck are you to tell them to stop doing it? Just because you think it's bull? Why burst any bubble when you don't have to?

Christians - if an atheist is happy to reject God, and finds a nice wellbeing and lives the good life by trusting in, say, science, and doing things as science and general rationality tells them, who the fuck are you to tell him to stop doing it? Just because you think he'll burn in hell, and think he's wrong?

People are so close minded. If everyone could simply accept other people's religious views without bashing about it, there would never be any problem about it.

On an unrelated note: atheism, yes, IS a religious view, and it IS a belief. Get over it. You believe that no deities can exist. It's a belief. You cannot prove that God does NOT exist, can you? Check and mate. I haven't read up on this thread carefully, so this point may be way off topic, but seriously guys, take some logic classes.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:13 PM   #238
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Default Re: Atheism/Theism thread

the reason i believe in god is because its cool to be atheist and im a part of the counter-counter culture #2meta4u
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:29 PM   #239
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I don't know how you can possibly make such a post after everything that has been said here and not realize that your post is the exact confirmation that not only your reasoning is entirely flawed, but you're making use of the same fallacities over and over to justify your stance. You are not clever. You are not enlightened. You are the same as pshychotic person repeating the same delusional patterns no matter what you feed them. People in this thread had way too much patience with you, and given you are not a troll, your reasoning falls way below mental retard. This is not meant to be an offence, it is a matter of fact.

To sum it up, you absolutely did not come here with a mind open to accept new possibilities, as there is only one available to you, and everyone who thinks otherwise is automatically inferior, as clearly shown by the many instances where you brought up how god-less people lack for morals, are lost, have no purpose with their lives, etc. I guess if you live your faith trying to use it as a mean to do good to you and the people around you, have some connession with the universe and the divine, while conceptually wrong, that's fine. But if you happen to be actively opinionated and trying to make a difference about anything concerning education, health, government that is related to your faith, my dear friend, you are to be considered a social cancer to exterminate.

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On an unrelated note: atheism, yes, IS a religious view, and it IS a belief. Get over it. You believe that no deities can exist. It's a belief. You cannot prove that God does NOT exist, can you? Check and mate. I haven't read up on this thread carefully, so this point may be way off topic, but seriously guys, take some logic classes.


(it was explained earlier why this is wrong)
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:33 PM   #240
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On an unrelated note: atheism, yes, IS a religious view, and it IS a belief. Get over it. You believe that no deities can exist. It's a belief. You cannot prove that God does NOT exist, can you? Check and mate. I haven't read up on this thread carefully, so this point may be way off topic, but seriously guys, take some logic classes.
If you're going to espouse logic, it'd help to at least be correct in what you're saying.

Lack of belief is not the same as belief in lacking. To not have a belief simply means you don't have a belief. This does not mean one necessarily believes that that thing does not exist.

Atheism is *not* a religion.

For instance: Would it make sense to say that someone has an addiction if that addiction is no addiction at all?

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