Ingame Song Information

[Zybanthia]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Every now and again almost everyone thinks a song should be moved up to C/VC/FMO and there's one really really good player who comes in and says it shouldn't because it's too easy (maybe because the only songs they haven't AAAed in that difficulty are the really really hard ones :P).

Yeah, and then there are those of us who think a song should be moved up even though we can AAA it virtually every time we play it. I'm like that with {Rose}. I think it should be VC, but not because I can't do it. Vertex BETA should be FMO. And I am, by and large, a speed major; stream is what I do. For me to say a stream level should be moved up counts for something, haha.

But then you also have to take into account the standard that the game's creators have set for what makes a level "Challenging" or "For Masters Only" or whatever else. I think we all get into the habit of getting a "feel" for what a certain difficulty is, and when something leaves our realm for comfort for that difficulty, we insist it should be moved up. If the judges have set the Challenging standard at {Rose} and the Very Challenging standard at Vertex BETA, then that's just the standard.

Originally Posted by bballa48

Well I think Pimp Slap is easily an FMO. It's hard as crap.

Aaaaaand I just realized this has nothing to do with the conversation. Carry on.

I love how you were actually on topic when saying this, hahaha.

[bballa48]

Originally Posted by Zybanthia

I love how you were actually on topic when saying this, hahaha.

Haha yeah I guess it was sorta on topic. But I really just said it so I could wine about how hard Pimp Slap is. While I am at it, I think X-tinction and Going on Spring Wind can both just vanish off into the sunset. I would not miss them.

But regarding the discussion, I agree that it is frustrating when the best players (say top 10) claim that a song is "easy". Yes, we all know that Pimp Slap is an easy AAA for, say, AOD. The reality, however, is that we tend to lose our ability to judge files as we get better. I know for me personally, I struggle distinguishing between an 8 and a 9, and sometimes even between a 9 and a 10. A slow stream compared to a somewhat slow stream is all the same to me-- easy. The difference between a 10 and 11 (in most cases), however, is obvious to me. Therefore, when someone like Rubix can AAA basically every file in the game, I think it would become very difficult for him to truly understand why a file should be a 10 instead of an 11, etc.

A good example is Club. If I remember correctly, I think Tera said before that he could AAA it every time. To him, it is one of the easiest FMOs. He has the speed. Once you have it, the file is easy. For players on the borderline between having the speed and not ( like myself), it is easily the hardest FMO. (maybe behind Blooddrunk, although that is becoming much easier). To me, it is a FGO. Easily.

Difficulties are all relative, but sometimes lower level players do have a better sense as to what a difficulty should be.

At the same time, however, I do get annoyed when bad players say that an FMO such as EHHS should be challenging because they can FC it. That is frustrating.

[stavie33]

Pimp Slaps mid VC, it's really easy, you can jump trill EVERYTHING that's hard in the song, and it's easy to read, hardest part is the beginning with the one handed 24th trill leading into the 48th rolls

X-tinction is also really easy, once more, you can jumptrill every one of the rolls, that's how I've AAA'd it 4 times, while I still can't AAA Klungklung (got it once but that was total luck), Nova Pulser, and MAMA

If any VC should be FMO it's either For FFR, Kil Stage, or Xeno-flow (which I think should all remain VC)

And I'm really good at jumpstream (except for 4 chord due to mental blocks)

[stavie33]

Lost in mind remains VD, if you mean Keep in Mind, I think that should be a 74 or FMO (just from the vids and AAA number, would have to play it though to be sure)

[bluguerrilla]

I don't think that just because someone's good at something negates his or her opinion on the difficulty. You can invent whatever personal metrics for difficulty, some people just suck or excel at certain things, whatever.

The thing is, in addition to being good at the game, it helps to actually think about what's hard and why it's hard.

A good way to rate the easier or average file is by notes per second but even that isn't perfect.

And regardless of how easy or hard you find something, there's always some space for objectivity. The problem is that it's impossible to be anything but subjective when it comes to like... +/-3 on the scale. What's low FMO will be VC for others, etc.

[Zybanthia]

Originally Posted by stavie33

Pimp Slaps mid VC, it's really easy, you can jump trill EVERYTHING that's hard in the song, and it's easy to read, hardest part is the beginning with the one handed 24th trill leading into the 48th rolls

X-tinction is also really easy, once more, you can jumptrill every one of the rolls

Yeah, but Stavie, you can jumptrill EVERYTHING in this game and make it easier. That doesn't count, haha.

Originally Posted by bluguerrilla

The problem is that it's impossible to be anything but subjective when it comes to like... +/-3 on the scale. What's low FMO will be VC for others, etc.

This is too true. And this is what I see being discussed most frequently; VC-FMO and FMO-FGO borders.

[5.points]

I'll just leave this here...
[0. Vertex Beta vrofl (25.08)]
1. Reluctantly Accepting Temporary Overexhaustion (17.02)
2. The Adventures Of Lolo (14.55)
3. Death Piano (14.10)
4. Here We Go (13.52)
5. Eclipse (Solar) (12.56)
6. Flight of the Bumblebee (12.49)
7. Across Rooftops (12.45)
8. Exciting Hyper Highspeed Star (12.27)
9. Counter Clockwise Chant Pattern (12.27)
10. Reality (11.96)

[Patashu]

How hard would it to get 'voltage nps' rankings for songs? How it works in ddr is that it checks 2 seconds onward from every note and counts how many more notes appear in that section, and the highest value it attains this way is that song's voltage. We'd only search songs and places that we know are likely to make the top 10, of course.

[qqwref]

Sounds like it would be really easy if you have the list of frames every note's on, like I think Tass does. That would be a pretty cool statistic I'd like to see - just counting notes per second is pretty good but it doesn't really take into account the maximum difficulty of the song (for instance some parts of Eclipse and CCCP are clearly way harder than others, whereas FotBB, EHHS, and Lolo are basically constant throughout).

I guess that might in turn be biased towards songs with long sections of just rolls. I'd like to see what comes up on top

[Bolth mannn]

i still think lost in mind should be challenging, compare it to metropolis zone, iPatch's OP, emerald hill. lost in mind is a lot harder, even if it isnt that fast of a BPM.

[mhss1992]

I just played Ska Cha Cha, there's no way that song can be considered challenging, it's at least very challenging.

[Sebdarkiss]

What is the difficulty 65 ? for the token 47

[Bolth mannn]

Originally Posted by Sebdarkiss

What is the difficulty 65 ? for the token 47

all the songs highlighted in green in the first post will unlock that token.

mhss: yes ska cha cha is a bit akward and hard at several parts to PA, but i think it is definately challenging. high challenging at the most, but it is fine as a lvl 9.

[TC_Halogen]

I think it's about time that None Would Escape gets dropped to a VC. It's too easy of a song to be an Oni get, and it's getting abused AAA wise (86 AAAs!).

Also, for reasons of scoring, maybe Lethal Injection should be bumped up to a Challenging? (half of the AAAs of None Would Escape with 43 AAAs).

While people's views on a song may be biased, overall scoring is actually based on multiple people playing, and I think it's a noteworthy reason to change some borderline difficult songs.

I'll come back with more stuff later, but that's my little lecture today.

[Bolth mannn]

Originally Posted by 0

...

am I the only one who doesn't think NWE is the easiest FMO?

even though i cant do AIM anthem, i think its the easiest FMO

[Zybanthia]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

I think it's about time that None Would Escape gets dropped to a VC. It's too easy of a song to be an Oni get, and it's getting abused AAA wise (86 AAAs!).

Not saying this isn't true, but going off AAAs isn't accurate enough of a reason. People AAA things specifically to get tokens sometimes. If your friend unlocked Oni on NWE and suggests it to you, you'll AAA this even thought you may not have necessarily even paid attention to it.

If we're going off AAAs (and based on what I said above), go look at how many Seven has, and then look at virtually any other Challenging song. On that basis, Seven is like a Standard.

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Also, for reasons of scoring, maybe Lethal Injection should be bumped up to a Challenging? (half of the AAAs of None Would Escape with 43 AAAs).

Yeah, again, AAAs just isn't enough. 1: It's a Secret Song, so far less people have played it (you'd really be surprised how many less people have played Secret songs, even old and inexpensive ones). 2: It's offbeat, so people don't bother AAAing it. 3: ...played it recently? It's barely VD. I can literally name Difficult files harder than this level (World of Dreams, Shin Trigger). I think if anything it was boosted to VD after the background / noteskin was taken into account.

[bballa48]

Originally Posted by Zybanthia

Yeah, again, AAAs just isn't enough. 1: It's a Secret Song, so far less people have played it (you'd really be surprised how many less people have played Secret songs, even old and inexpensive ones). 2: It's offbeat, so people don't bother AAAing it. 3: ...played it recently? It's barely VD. I can literally name Difficult files harder than this level (World of Dreams, Shin Trigger). I think if anything it was boosted to VD after the background / noteskin was taken into account.

I really don't get this. It has a fast up down jack that is tough to hit. It has really awkward slow trills. AND the background is crappy. It should be challenging, and if anything a high VD. I don't see how you can seriously say World of Dreams is harder. I can AAA that with my eyes closed.

[Zybanthia]

Originally Posted by bballa48

I don't see how you can seriously say World of Dreams is harder. I can AAA that with my eyes closed.

I guess that's the personal part of determining a difficulty, because I can AAA Lethal Injection with my eyes closed. In fact if I'm not mistaken I avmiss AAAed it on my alt account in two tries. So... yeah, not hard even with a glitch that is now gone. But again, to each his own, haha.

Originally Posted by 0

Balloon Fever could pass as an FMO as well

+1,000,000

Vertex BETA as well. But it's never gonna happen.

[stavie33]

you can't anymore. And balloon Fever should be a 73. It's much easier than songs like MAMA and Garyuuntensei. Also, NWE should be VC now, and I do vote on Lethal Injection being C, as it's the only VD I haven't AAA'd (but if it becomes C, it'll be the 2nd C I haven't AAA'd lol)

I'm still complaining that Kanon Kanon is not FMO, MAKE IT FMO ALREADY!!!

EDIT: Ska Cha Cha is definitely a C, I AAA'd sightread, it's really, really easy, mid-high C. Honestly, I think Otter's Dance should be VC, as it's the only C I haven't AAA'd (keep BF'ing it). That song is really much harder than a lot of easy VC songs, but it won't get changed. Ska Cha Cha is a joke, AAA'd sightread. When you get better at the game, views of song difficulties completely change. I used to think Gradeus was really, really hard. Now I think it could be C.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by stavie33

When you get better at the game, views of song difficulties completely change. I used to think Gradeus was really, really hard. Now I think it could be C.

Well that's the thing, isn't it? You have to rank songs by how hard they are to play for people who are about at that level. Gradeus is probably really easy for you now because you have the speed and reading ability to consistently hit and PA everything, but for people who are just learning to pass/FC/SDG VCs there might be hard parts that you don't even notice. I think it's a mid-range VC for instance.