TWG LXXXIX: Simplicity

[Afrobean]

Yes, a wolf will always want to do things that make him look human, but he's not necessarily going to shoot himself in the foot to appear human. If a wolf has a following of greens who trust him, he is going to keep those people around.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by sc979

any reasons for that vote other than wanting to save your own skin?

Sort of.

Panda has been on my shortlist of potential wolves for a while yet.

But honestly, I'd be voting for anyone at this point that I would think would help me not be killed.

[Ruritsu]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Yes, a wolf will always want to do things that make him look human, but he's not necessarily going to shoot himself in the foot to appear human. If a wolf has a following of greens who trust him, he is going to keep those people around.

Its not a shot in the foot if it works and why not wolf greens that support you if you think it'll evade the lynch? The only reason I've avoided voting for you is because a good wolf might forsee that logic and use it to get you lynched, and I wouldn't want to be helping that along.

[DarkManticoreX2]

I want to talk to afro before he ges lynched!

uhhhhh A2P

[Ruritsu]

Then get on bloody AIM Manti.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Ruritsu

Its not a shot in the foot if it works and why not wolf greens that support you if you think it'll evade the lynch? The only reason I've avoided voting for you is because a good wolf might forsee that logic and use it to get you lynched, and I wouldn't want to be helping that along.

I don't think you understand.

The goal of a wolf is to appear human and be trusted.

If I'm already trusted and there are a group of greens who think I appear human, why would I want them dead? If my goal is to appear human, I already achieved it in those individuals. Occam's razor. I'd keep people who support me alive as long as possible, because that's the simplest way of achieving the goal of appearing human and being trusted.

ps manti, I think I might grab a couple of hours of sleep before work, but I'll be sure and get on meebo tonight at work. Probably around midnight EST.

[DarkManticoreX2]

I'm at work, and I don't dare install aim on the work computer. I'll be home in twenty minutes so go take a warm soapy shower or something.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

I'm at work, and I don't dare install aim on the work computer. I'll be home in twenty minutes so go take a warm soapy shower or something.

meebo.com

That's what I use at work.

[Ruritsu]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I don't think you understand.

The goal of a wolf is to appear human and be trusted.

If I'm already trusted and there are a group of greens who think I appear human, why would I want them dead? If my goal is to appear human, I already achieved it in those individuals. Occam's razor. I'd keep people who support me alive as long as possible, because that's the simplest way of achieving the goal of appearing human and being trusted.

ps manti, I think I might grab a couple of hours of sleep before work, but I'll be sure and get on meebo tonight at work. Probably around midnight EST.

You're not exactly known for doing simple things >_>

[emerald000]

I finally got around to talk to a couple of persons I wanted to talk to for a while. Out of these discussions, I find A2P the most suspicious. He has yet to take position on anything.

[Afrobean]

I'm relatively neutral to A2P, but still gonna have to go with him over panda regardless.

[Gun92]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I'm relatively neutral to A2P, but still gonna have to go with him over panda regardless.

Why are you voting for a2p now? I may be reading too much into this but your first vote was on Panda, but only after someone had previously posted a safety on him. Then, you switch your vote, without much of a reason, at least that I have found, and voted for a2p, but only after two others had placed a vote on him. Care to elaborate for me please?

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Gun92

Why are you voting for a2p now? I may be reading too much into this but your first vote was on Panda, but only after someone had previously posted a safety on him. Then, you switch your vote, without much of a reason, at least that I have found, and voted for a2p, but only after two others had placed a vote on him. Care to elaborate for me please?

I somehow accumulated like 4 votes shortly after day began.

I don't want to be lynched, and I'd rather A2P be lynched.

[Gun92]

I was just asking for a reason why the change in votes because I have been gone for awhile and am trying to catch up. I just found it odd that both your votes were those that followed in the wake of a different person voting for that same person, but basically your just voting to lynch someone else instead of yourself?

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Gun92

basically your just voting to lynch someone else instead of yourself?

I thought this was completely obvious.

[Gun92]

I was making sure it was clear, chill out a little. You act like I'm accusing you of something. Just making sure I have everything sorted out and if that means stating the obvious to get an obvious answer, then I'm going to do it.

[A2P]

woah wait.

Emerald, my position is that I find manti suspicious enough to lynch. Where did you get the idea that I had no stance? When people were voting for afro I gave you a counterpoint on why he shouldn't be lynched. Thoughts?

[Ruritsu]

[22:29] ﾙﾘﾂ: With Afro, I'm 50/50.  The reason that Panda posted is plausable, however, it gutsy beyond reason.
[22:30] Clarinet898: true
[22:31] ﾙﾘﾂ: The idea of Afro wolfing his human support and then using that logic to prove humanity is (As afro reminded me several times via AIM) unnecessary, however, if it worked it would be well played IMO at least.
[22:33] Clarinet898: that's true, but it could also be taken into account that fic ais a good enough player to notice if afro would screw up somehow
[22:33] ﾙﾘﾂ: Next is A2P.  Emerald basically accused A2P of being active, a yesman and indifferent.  A wolf that doesn't want to make enimies.  Once again, this is fair, however, the same could be said about U84.  Further, thats the same logic we lynched Tupac under if you recall correctly, and the same logic that Afro tried to get Sc lynched under, which doesn't sit well with me.
[22:34] ﾙﾘﾂ: Finally Emerald himself, like I said above, he followed similar logic to Afro, and since I'm not sure about Afro, I by extension am not sure about Emerald.  Also, his passionate attempt to get afro lynched came from nowhere and was very strong.
[22:35] ﾙﾘﾂ: Until he randomly decides to go for A2P.
[22:36] ﾙﾘﾂ: I don't understand why his opinion changed so quickly, further, he mentioned "talking to a couple of persons" in his reasons for voting A2P, but when I asked him about it, he didn't even make an attempt to try and mention these people.
[22:36] Clarinet898: yeah. i was wondering about that too. he didnt talk to me about it
[22:37] ﾙﾘﾂ: And you know what, I should probably have just posted that.

The above pretty well summerizes my thoughts on the current dispute.

[A2P]

And the reason why I find manti to be suspicious is because he kept pushing that alliance plan even though all the flaws were pointed out. I know I keep saying that, but it makes me uncomfortable that manti can just be oblivious to the risks.

I know that it's a more likely than not gamble...but there were so many flaws with that plan. A wolf could come to the seered human, or a wolf could IM someone pretending to be the seer, or the psychic's identity could be given away, not to mention the MW possibility.

I wouldn't have been suspicious if manti didn't basically say "hey if the humans lose oh well XD!"

[Ruritsu]

As a matter of fact, after discussing it with multiple people, including Emerald, I find him and Afro to be most suspicious. Logs below pretty much sum up the reason.

Originally Posted by Emerald in response to the log with Clari above

[22:45] emerald3x0: and my radical change was because my initial vote on afro was more or less a test to see how everyone would react to it
[22:46] ﾙﾘﾂ: Thats not the same reason you gave in the thread.
[22:46] ﾙﾘﾂ: Nor is that a good reason to vote on somebody.
[22:46] ﾙﾘﾂ: Well, at least not like that >_>
[22:46] emerald3x0: what do you mean by not the same reason?
[22:48] ﾙﾘﾂ: I finally got around to talk to a couple of persons I wanted to talk to for a while. Out of these discussions, I find A2P the most suspicious. He has yet to take position on anything. <-- That is the reason you gave for changing votes in the thread, and above for that matter, and now here, you've changed your reason to "and my radical change was because my initial vote on afro was more or less a test to see how everyone would react to it".
[22:48] ﾙﾘﾂ: Those reasons are different is what I mean.
[22:49] emerald3x0: what was posted in the thread was why I voted for A2P
[22:49] emerald3x0: the radical change is why I removed my vote from afro
[22:49] ﾙﾘﾂ: That action is one in the same.
[22:50] emerald3x0: not at all
[22:50] ﾙﾘﾂ: Your reason for changing your vote from afro and onto A2P has changed.
[22:50] ﾙﾘﾂ: *Sigh* Thats a difference in opinion, so I'm not gonna waste time.
[22:50] ﾙﾘﾂ: Plus I have to go soon.
[22:51] ﾙﾘﾂ: Don't really want to start a long winded argument.
[22:51] ﾙﾘﾂ: But thats how I feel.
[22:51] emerald3x0: I voted for afro to see the reaction of everyone --> I have seen the reaction of everyone --> I have to remove my vote then --> I can't remove my vote unless I vote for someone else --> Who might be voted? --> A2P is a good choice because...
[22:52] ﾙﾘﾂ: Forgive me for thinking thats really convinient.
[22:52] emerald3x0: I really don't get your point...
[22:54] ﾙﾘﾂ: After your really devoted display of will to get Afro lynched, this sudden change came from nowhere, and I just find you reason for it to be convinient, like it was kind of graced upon you. In other words, I don't believe you entirely.

That.