05-2-2007, 11:15 AM | #21 | |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
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What is the man's responsibility?
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05-2-2007, 11:56 AM | #22 | |
shock me shock me
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
The problem with setting a gestational age limit is that sometimes severe defects (such as anencephaly) cannot be detected prior to the second or even third trimester of a pregnancy. Abortions beyond this period are what the religious right have termed "partial-birth abortions", and they have been made out to be the most horrible act a human being can commit against another -- that mothers just up and decide toward the end of their pregnancies they no longer want their baby, and that is just not the case.
I recently read an article that sort of got me to change my thinking on the whole abortion issue. Couples who found out their child would be born with such horrible defects that not only would they only live very briefly, but those brief moments would be filled with intense physical suffering for the child, so they decided to terminate their pregnancies. This isn't like, "Oh, my child is going to have Downs, betr go kil him." It's a decision no parent wants to imagine facing -- do I carry my baby to term just to watch him suffer and die in my arms thirty minutes later, or do I save him that tremendous pain and live with the knowledge that I was effectively responsible for his death? Quote:
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05-2-2007, 12:25 PM | #23 |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
He gets no choice in the matter of whether the baby is aborted or not, and if it is, he has to pay child suport. Well hey there, male responsibility.
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05-2-2007, 12:31 PM | #24 | |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
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It's an imperfect system a woman can have an abortion without a mans consent, how is this right? yet I have can live with the way it is because there are many men who say they'll commit to the child then **** off. Generally the lowest form of men on the planet. However if I were in the situation where I got a girl pregnant fully committed to help raise that child but she wanted an abortion, I feel that's slightly hitting the boundraies of double standards. |
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05-2-2007, 12:31 PM | #25 |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
Jesus, this subject's been overdone and all the things I've seen posted are completely stale arguments. I'll just drop my two cents and be out.
It is the mother who will have to give birth to the child, so it should be her choice. It has been proven many times that the baby cannot even detect pain until after the end of the first trimester. I despise Christianity's stranglehold over the US, and see it as a purveyor of ignorance and fear, just like all organized religions. Sorry, blindly devoted pseudo-intellectuals, your reign is over soon. Let me regurgitate the issue of rape: A woman is badly humiliated, violated, destroyed, and left with her shattered mind to rot, and you're going to make her give birth to the spawn of the man that willfully broke her and infested her? The baby is not born yet, so don't make the poor woman give birth to, care for, and raise the child of the man who raped her. Now for the socio-economic regurgitation: Let's say two teens have stupid, careless, unprotected sex, and the girl is impregnated. Let's also assume that they don't have infinite stores of money and a house of their own at age 16. Let's even assume they're in a the poorest area of the poorest country and can hardly afford to take care of themselves. You're willfully going to subject the kid to a broken childhood and possible starvation? It's a sad old story. Who says the kid who was an accident when his parents were 16 wouldn't have joined the gangs of 1990's LA as a source of belonging and protection? There are so many diverse examples, and not in any single one of them do I find it alright to let the child be born and put the parents' stupidity upon the child. The child could suffer far more through its life, and won't know the difference until it's born and raised. If you make all abortions illegal, you won't stop them. You'll just make them the unsanitary illegal abortions that have gone on before, and those are far worse than anything clean and legal. Don't take abortions out of the hospitals and put them into the hands of unexperienced pseudo-doctors when the baby's in the third trimester. Maybe it's just me, but abortions are often times the most human thing to do. Saying "oh, but you extinguish precious life!" is like me calling whichever of you has ever stepped on an ant and extinguished its life a murderer. And it's really not fair to place an arbitrary importance on a human fetus, especially since it's not really much of a human until it's born. It's no more alive than an ant or a c0ckroach, even though we've been taught that if it doesn't have two eyes, a nose, a mouth, and isn't extraordinarily cute, it's okay to kill it. To all of you who take antibiotics when sick: You kill millions of bacteria! You bacteria-murdering heartless freaks!! And another thing, slipstrike, what right do you have to determine what one's place in society is, and whether they're useful to it? What does society care for the impoverished and unwanted baby anyways? When the baby's born unwanted, that REALLY helps its development. I'm sure the baby will grow up to be a mentally healthy, happy, contributing member of society, just the way you'd like it.
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05-2-2007, 01:11 PM | #26 | |||
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
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That's where the doubestandard is. Either the man and woman have equal responsability or they don't. If they have equal responsability, then the man should have an -equal- say in whether the baby is kept. If they don't have equal responsability, then unfortunately, if the man doesn't want the kid, they should in my opinion be perfectly allowed to have no part of it. I mean, it's a jackass thing to do, and you hope that people are being responsable enough to not just have sex willy-nilly with random people, but lets not kid ourselves. I just don't think it is necessarily fair that two people can get together one night after the bar, and just because the woman decides she wants to keep the kid, suddenly have the right to demand the same from the man. This story here http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html Actually kinda highlights the attitude I find so reprehensible. |
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05-2-2007, 01:18 PM | #27 | |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
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By mother's choice, I meant in terms of rape, where the father has abandoned the child and therefore really shouldn't have any say. However, there's one problem: Where do you draw the line? I can't think that it's right for the father to force the mother to keep the baby, or that the mother can keep it against the father's will. What do you do?
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. Originally Posted by jewpinthethird[link]: "If you get stung by enough bees you turn into a bee, because the venom gets into the blood stream which spreads bee DNA throughout your entire body... changing your genetic structure into a bee's. Every year roughly 125 people in America are turned into bees this way." Originally Posted by MrRubix[link]: "Do you basically bukkake-paint your walls every time you jack it?" Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz[link]: "My pity-sex depreciates at a rate of 5% annually." |
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05-2-2007, 01:41 PM | #28 | |
Very Grave Indeed
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
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My issue is more when the woman is refusing to even consider that the man has any say at all in the situation, but will still insist that 50% of the (funny how it's always financial) responsibility of raising the kid is his, but 0% in of the responsibility in deciding to keep it. |
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05-2-2007, 01:45 PM | #29 |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
It should be up to the woman to decide about abortion, they should not stop it.
(oh and i like frankie's avi =P) |
05-2-2007, 03:04 PM | #30 | |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
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--Guido http://andy.mikee385.com |
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05-2-2007, 04:13 PM | #31 |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
I just thought I'd say this to all you antiabortion people:
if you accidentally get pregnant, go ahead and keep the baby, but don't take the choice away from the fourteen year old who was to quit school to try to find a job to support for a child she doesn't even love. if you think ending the life of a fetus is wrong, y don't you think ruining the girls life just to have another little kid (like the planet isn't populated enough as it is...) is ok? |
05-2-2007, 04:41 PM | #32 |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
I think that the government shouldn't have the right to control what a person does with their body. It may not be the "right" thing to do in some situations, but I think it's their decision, not something we should be making laws about. That's my current opinion on it, if anyone wants to try to convince me of something else, go ahead, it's your opinion.
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05-2-2007, 04:42 PM | #33 |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
Simply put: You damn religious freaks need to quit imposing your religion and your "oh my god it's A PERSON!" type of screwy morals on us. If you look at it from a religious point of view I can understand you not wanting an abortion and that's fine. You can keep your child if you want. But quit trying to force people who don't have the same beliefs as you not to have an abortion, just because YOUR religion says it's wrong.
p.s. Why do supposedly pro-life people bomb abortion clinics? That make sense to anyone else? |
05-2-2007, 04:50 PM | #34 |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
I personaly am pro choice. Very conditional pro choice, however, but pro choice none the less. My beliefes have already been brought up in this thread. Children aborted before they can feel pain cause me absolutely no problems. Yes, the people were either stupid (oops >.>) or very unlucky (as in the case of rape-babies).
I've seen a lot of pro life people (mostly religious types, but others as well) heatedly saying that as soon as the sperm and egg meet, it is a baby and should be treated as human life. To me, that makes no sense. Yes, it has the potential to be life, but it is nothing more then a single cell, or , even several weeks later, a cluster of cells no smarter than a drop of blood. If you wiped up a drop of blood, would it be putting out life? Those cells would have created more cells, does that entitle them to a future? If the child would grow up in a poor home, such as not being wanted or being mistreated/neglected, then I think an abortion to save them from that furture is agreeable. Also, I heard it mentioned before (in this thread) of a couple who had a late (third trimester? I forget) abortion to save their child terrible pain and a certain early death. While this goes against what I said earlier, I find this to be completely moral and ethical. Killing/abborting an unborn, yet almost fully developed, child quickly rather than letting it suffer is completely justified. I have also heard the same crowd mention "The child could grow up to be important to humanity. How can you deny it a future?" In short, the whole 'it could be great and your hurting us all' argument. This, to me, also holds no water. Yes, the child could the next Washington, Churchill, or De Vinci, but it could also end up being the next Hitler or Stalin. Who is to say that the child won't be a murderer, theif, or rapist rather than a priest, artist, or world leader? It makes no sense to me. Last thing, http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html made me laugh, even though I felt a little sorry for the girl. She's definatly low to try and do that, but she's still stuck with the child. And the way the man handled it was fantastic. |
05-2-2007, 04:56 PM | #35 | ||
shock me shock me
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
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05-2-2007, 05:15 PM | #36 |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
Well, I'm pro-choice, and the reasons why have already been stated (no pain in first trimester, etc.). I just have this to add to the discussion:
To those of you who say the baby could grow up and make a difference in the world, think about this. Yes, he could be another Einstein. He could also be another Hitler, another Mussolini, or another George W. Bush (laugh. That one's supposed to be funny. Haha.). Besides, why would you want another Einstein anyway? He was one of the main reasons the atomic bomb could be developed. Why would you want another one of him, considering he could probably make a single bomb that would destroy the entire world by now? |
05-2-2007, 05:17 PM | #37 |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
It doesn't say not to abort babies, and yet 99% of the radical anti-abortion people are highly religious. That rant was less aimed at the typical people who have a moderate view on abortion and more aimed at the people earlier in the thread that basically said, "no abortions unless it's rape or could kill the mother."
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05-2-2007, 06:21 PM | #38 | |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
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If you cannot deal with the results of sex (a baby) then you do not have business having sex. Well, sure. Own a dog first. If you kill that, you probably shouldn't have sex. There are far worse things that can happen to a baby and a mother than the mother getting an abortion.
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"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline." "Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback! |
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05-2-2007, 06:46 PM | #39 | |||||||
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
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I don't know if you've read the title of the thread or not (it seems you haven't), but this is a discussion on FEDERAL LAW, not religious views. People are more than welcome to support their choices with a religious basis here, and you don't get to say anything about it. Welcome to America, where we have the right to have religion-based opinions. Welcome to FFR, too, where you don't have the right to derail a thread, though, just because you want to go on an anti-religion tirade. I'm still waiting for you to show me where I mentioned it, though. Quote:
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I'm not at all saying that every woman does, but come on, you're being ridiculous. --Guido http://andy.mikee385.com
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Last edited by GuidoHunter; 05-2-2007 at 06:48 PM.. |
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05-2-2007, 06:57 PM | #40 | |
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Re: Should the government stop abortions?
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The only reason there is any debate at all on the subject is the idea that the fetus in the mother is a self-aware, intelligent life that has an equal moral value as the mother. But I really don't think there is any particular scientific or medical evidence to support that conclusion, and for something as important as a woman's rights to control her own life and body, "It just seems wrong" as a purely emotional conclusion doesn't, and shouldn't cut it. |
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