Attention Staff & Users: Please Stop Fighting

[Gradiant]

I think pushing the blame entirely onto one group of people is the wrong way to go about this hi19.

[gold stinger]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Further elaborating on the post above.

The staff would, in all honesty, be content to not say anything and just do our work. Staff members do not going around and publicly put down other users without provocation, because we have better shit to be doing. (Me responding to this thread is a result of having been clearly provoked. Seriously.)

Thus any negative staff-user interaction is started by a user.
And so it's even more of a slap in the face to construe the fact the staff is bothering to try to respond at all as it suddenly being the staff's fault.
The staff could not respond to anything- it happened that way for half a decade, really, and people complained about that too.

This is not something we "need to work on together", this is just a small and obnoxiously vocal part of the userbase needing to learn how to be polite. End of story.

Just because a user/player is acting hostile towards an administrator, moderator, or a developer (which in some cases would have power) doesn't mean they should have to stoop to their level of arguing and complaining. That's part of acting professional, to keep a leveled head, take a neutral ground, make judgements on it, and try to understand it from their point of view much like I have been doing with mine for players in FFR TCG, and in the Wiki.

Not trying to call you out or anything on it, I think this could be a learning curve for Staff and users alike. The problem doesn't fall into hands of one person or group on this website.

[choof]

he's not though lmao ???

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Gradiant

I think pushing the blame entirely onto one group of people is the wrong way to go about this hi19.

Feel free to say what you'd prefer to see.
But for god sake don't just start out with a blanket statement like "all staff members need to be kicked" because that's the shit I'm referring to with those two posts.

[Zageron]

For now I'll just say that I believe the best solution is to be a team about it. Pointing blame in either direction is only going to cause more angst. Rather than figuring out what has happened, let's just fix it?

[awein999]

<3 staff. I am among the majority of people that don't say much but really appreciate the work done.

@Thread: Lets not over-complicate negative situations that try to explain stuff that doesn't warrant attention. This only perpetuates perceptions of problems that are imaginary in the first place.

[Gradiant]

Originally Posted by choof

he's not though lmao ???

if this is referring to my post...
Okay then. Zenith made a sort of apology thread which may have not been worded in the best way. Instead of it being taken as it was meant to be taken, staff bash him over skype. Because clearly, staff was 'provoked' by an apology thread. One party can't complain about respect if they also do not give respect. This works for both sides. Saying that not being respected as staff is a slap in the face and blaming it on the users is both false (as shown by staff not respecting users as well through the skype bashing) and a bit immature i think.

[I like it]

Idk what's going on and I don't really care and everyone should have the same opinion cause in the end none of this really matters just be a good person and make this site enjoyable for everyone and however long its still going to be up.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Gradiant

if this is referring to my post...
Okay then. Zenith made a sort of apology thread which may have not been worded in the best way. Instead of it being taken as it was meant to be taken, staff bash him over skype. Because clearly, staff was 'provoked' by an apology thread. One party can't complain about respect if they also do not give respect. This works for both sides. Saying that not being respected as staff is a slap in the face and blaming it on the users is both false (as shown by staff not respecting users as well through the skype bashing) and a bit immature i think.

I had nothing to say about the apology thread.
Read it, appreciated it for its intent, if not its execution, didn't reply.
That thread was not the issue I am talking about.

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by Xiz

1) First off, we would like to apologize to those who we will offend in this post. We understand that we will most likely be burning a bunch of bridges by posting this, and perhaps lose some good friends... but the elephants in the room need to be addressed so FFR can move on as either a company, or as a community project. We hope that this can be taken constructively, so FFR can grow and thrive. We understand that these leaks will most likely result in this thread being deleted, and/or us being banned and we accept all charges against us. But please know, that we are saying this to help FFR because this toxicity needs to be addressed and resolved, and hopefully this will become a self reflection for those inflicting harm on others to realize what they are doing to others.


2) Recently there have been numerous posts in threads where FFR users have been blatantly insulting the FFR staff, regardless if they are correct or not instead of approaching the issue in a diplomatic manner. These insults range from private PM's, to openly backhanding various staff members ignoring the opportunity to approach the problem with constructive criticism. Examples range such as this:

(To protect the identities and reputations of the individuals, all images have been censored.)

3) There also have been numerous threads where members of the FFR staff have used petty insults and inappropriate language describing members of the FFR community in public threads, instead of releasing neutral statements. Even in scenarios where neutral statements are posted, other staff members have not been acting to a professional level.
There also have been numerous nonprofessional acts that have taken place behind closed doors, such as through programs like skype, and slack. This has been going on for years now, all the way up to even today.


4) We strongly recommend that a level of professionalism be held, especially if the intention for FFR is to become successful. These petty insults and high school-esk drama filled rants on both sides need to be eliminated so the company can move on, and for both staff and users could be respected amongst one another. We also strongly recommend that criticism should be taken without hostility and retribution, but instead with care and thoughtful reason. Without the basics of cooperation, there is a minimal chance that FFR will survive.


5) Once again, we deeply apologize for those who we have insulted and hope the friendships we have gained are not tarnished because of this thread. We hope that this thread brings light to the issues so everyone on FFR can move on. But We do care for FFR, and wish for it's success. We are not asking for an apology, but more awareness to what both sides have been doing to each other, and how it hurts us to see our friends hurt one another. It's for these reasons why we have stopped making files, stopped making videos on this website, and have had little to no interest and motivation to help FFR. The hostility of our friends hurting one another is too overwhelming and exhausting when it could be easily avoided, and we want no part in a website where the foundation of the FFR community resides in these toxic principles.


(It would be ideal if this thread would remain constructive and diplomatic.)


- Xiz & Fission

1) I cannot stress this first section enough. I regret making the ATTN: FFRevolution thread because it came off more as an attack than a logical reasoning of "Hey, why are certain staff members inactive and not contributing like they should be" when in all honesty since I'm not a part of staff anymore, I have no idea what is going on in the backend. I am trying to organize this constructive apology because I want to be able to apologize, explain why, and move on.

I am apologizing for several reasons; mainly the reasons behind the ATTN: FFRevolution thread. I was upset, as a user of FFR and ex-member of the Event Staff, seeing how I was dishonorably discharged from the team for revealing an image (to profile chat) for the Scavenger Hunt back in October 2014 and for being Inactive too frequently to contribute much to the team. I agree that I should've been removed for all of those reasons and I hold no personal hatred to them as a team and as separate individuals. The emotions that drove the ATTN thread was due to hearing that more and more staff members were inactive and nothing was being done within the teams and that honestly drove me mad. The thread came off as an attack towards staff for inactivity along with a few other reasons, but I am trying my hardest to apologize right now because the way I worded everything was wrong in every way and made me seem like I have no idea what I'm talking about and why am I even speaking about it.

2) I feel as though we as a community need to have a lot more open discussions in a diplomatic way to not only learn about what the discussions/topics are about but also to move forward as FFR. I apologize for all hateful and or discriminating things that I have said about staff, to others about staff, or to others in general.

3) It is entirely true about what is said here. It's natural for behind door talking to occur, but it shouldn't affect the way FFR progresses. I think it is safe to say that we all hold FFR to heart because it's where some of us grew up. Also what Zageron said, we should really be working as a team to improve and move on with FFR.

4) If Staff is also willing to be more open and optimistic as well as not jumping to "That guy is an asshat or a shitlord or a dick or an asshole or whatever". I am coming out and apologizing legitly and not trying to cause anything to further cause this problem to BE a problem. All I want is to move on from here on out.

5) I also cannot stress this part the most besides the beginning paragraph. I don't employ that we keep personal hatreds towards each other as it keeps showing itself and cause a problem within the community and within staff. This is my apology to FFR in its entirety; community and staff. I do not plan nor have the desire to keep trying to start worthless fights when people when in absolute honesty I want to keep moving forward with FFR. We all have a say in this community as well as Staff having a lot of say because they are the ones who actually implement it into the site and game than creating the idea for what happens. I seriously do not want any more personal hatreds because I'm getting sick of ruining all of our names and our beliefs by keep posting aggressive posts rather than offering up constructive thoughts and being optimistic.

This is my only post in the thread, and I will not be posting again. I am absolutely sorry everyone and to anyone who reads this. I thank any and all Staff Members for everything you have contributed so far. The hard work isn't unnoticed; even if it seems like the bad qualities that staff has is being shown to the public. We as a community need the sense of improvement in recent times for not only one person but for EVERY person. Happy Easter Everyone!

[Gradiant]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I had nothing to say about the apology thread.
Read it, appreciated it for its intent, if not its execution, didn't reply.
That thread was not the issue I am talking about.

Though, My post is a valid counterargument of your implying that all negative conflicts between staff and userbase are because of the userbase, no matter what specific thread you are referring to.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Gradiant

Though, My post is a valid counterargument of your implying that all negative conflicts between staff and userbase are because of the userbase, no matter what specific thread you are referring to.

There would be no issue if there was nothing to apologize about; the fact an apology thread exists at all kinda shows that.

I'm not blaming all users, far from it.
It's the small subset who seem to think that constantly saying "the staff is a joke" is not something that is hurting real people.

And honestly I need to be careful with absolutes, the staff fuck up all the time and I'm sure there are instances where the staff has started shit without provocation.
But at least as far as the recent issues this year, from my perspective, have a rather one-sided source.

[DossarLX ODI]

A concise and sweet way to put this is "be a part of the resolution, not the problem." It's not the necessarily criticism itself that could cause problems, but rather how the criticism is presented. If all that happens is a blasting at someone, there isn't any effort displayed towards resolving the issues with that person.

The manager in my first co-op experience has dealt with plenty of people who literally just yelled at him in his face and he had to keep his cool. That's what made him a good manager: leave the emotion out and see what can be done.

I underline the last part because it puts emphasis on a course of action. It's not enough to mention a problem -- a direction needs to be given. Anyone can take two seconds to thoughtlessly post "Staff Sucks" without any explanation as to what can be improved. Even then, it's always better to word things in a way that don't make the other side get on the defensive. Show that you actually want improvement instead of resorting to bashing.

[gold stinger]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I'm not blaming all users, far from it.
It's the small subset who seem to think that constantly saying "the staff is a joke" is not something that is hurting real people.

nonetheless it's still blaming the userbase rather than considering that we're all at fault here. Sure there has been a lot of attack on staff as of late but there's also been a lot of whistle-blowing at the same time.

[Gradiant]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

And honestly I need to be careful with absolutes, the staff fuck up all the time and I'm sure there are instances where the staff has started shit without provocation.

thats all i was trying to point out.

[Untimely Friction]

My only complaints were combo scoring and that's fixed so I will harass the staff only about multiplayer from here on!

[gold stinger]

Mind if I repost some stuff from Zenith's thread?

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Yeah money is an issue. Being non-profit is an issue. But these would be mitigated if the community expectations were in line with what is actually happening.

Originally Posted by Fission

Being non-profit has nothing to do with it. I haven't done it publicly, but I have explained that opening up FFR to contributors is what needs to happen. Look at any huge open source project on Github for example. They can add functionality rapidly because of their open nature.

Whether making parts of FFR the game and the website open source will actually solve the issue is something I don't think anybody can predict.

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I'll talk about the dev team and the simfile review process because that's what I know best. There's tons of shit going on behind the scenes. I'm sure you guys know the dev team have big goals- redesigning the homepage, new engine, raw scoring, the list goes on. I'm sure you guys also know that AJ quit being a game manager and left a leadership vacuum that Silvuh is doing his best to fill.

Originally Posted by Fission

Here's the problem: new functionality isn't delivered quickly enough. You can have plans all you want but if you can't deliver them then it doesn't mean anything. The reason being is because FFR needs to be focusing on cleaning up the infrastructure. A lot of the website is still written in spaghetti legacy PHP and needs to be significantly cleaned up. By doing this, new functionality can actually be delivered in a timely manner.

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

These changes go by slowly because, without throwing money at it, all the staff have other jobs and obligations that take priority over FFR. And so large periods of time go by where it feels like nothing is going on to the average user, but things are in fact actually happening. This is an area that can be improved- I talk a lot about increasing transparency, and I think it's the simplest first step to take and could even be fun for the staff if done well.

The suggestion of changing staff or adding more staff is more complicated than it appears. Throwing more people at the kinds of issues that need to be solved with dedication and care doesn't nessecarily deliver a better product. And replacing "lazy" staff has its own pitfalls. AJ is a great example of what happens when a staff member leaves (note that he certainly wasn't lazy). A gap in the structure like that takes time to fill properly. Cycling new staff constantly is just as disruptive as having lazy staff. With this in mind it's obvious that striking a balance between finding staff with the free time to no-life work on the site out of pure passion versus replacing people too quickly is difficult. It's an issue with the site since its start (Tass aside, he was his own issue) and it's not going to go away so long as we aren't throwing money at it.

Originally Posted by Fission

These two paragraphs conflict each other. You claim that throwing people at the problem isn't going to fix it, but you also mention that staff has other obligations outside of FFR. This is a pretty obvious indication that FFR is understaffed.

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I agree that cleaning up infrastructure should be a priority. I don't think suddenly dumping several new people on that task will help complete it any better.

Originally Posted by Fission

This is what code reviews are for. Full control of development still belongs to the head developers -- they don't have to include subpar code if they don't want to. It's simply fact that the development team is getting pulled in too many directions right now and it's too difficult to cover a significant amount of ground without easing the onboarding process for more developers.

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

My point is, whatever new staff members are added are also inevitably going to have obligations outside of FFR.

You may have ample free time to work on FFR now, but suddenly you get a different job. Have to move. Get a girlfriend. Start taking classes. Get sick.
You still contribute when you can but suddenly now you're the "lazy staff" and so you're worthless and should just be thrown out for someone else, right?

Originally Posted by Fission

I'm not suggesting to get rid of them, don't get the wrong idea. I'm stating that because people can't commit full time to FFR's development that it needs to have more developers than an organization that can afford them full time.

I have seen some talking in the actual thread by Dossar about this being a decent idea, but other than that, no one else really addressed this or noticed this stuff, beyond some talk for outgoing support to try and get Fission on the development team. Has there been any real consideration to these ideas, or is this the first time noticing it?

Considered I might as well bring this up being a bit off-topic considering staff is currently viewing this thread

[Velocity]

Quick Reminder, I did leave staff around a month ago, and only act as an assistant when prawnskunk has trouble with something on the server. I no longer have and responsibility in terms of a staff/administrator.

I finished up my last active project for the site when I finished the combo -> raw scoring switch.

[gold stinger]

welp I'm no longer working for the FFR TCG



It was a pleasure opening packs for you guys.

Still would like to apply for something else though considering that was my main past-time.

Real talk though rushyrulz, all this is doing is creating an even bigger divide between the userbase & FFR Staff. You acknowledged it, not me.

[rushyrulz]

stop fucking leaking our private skype messages, Jesus H. Christ.

@Zenith: Now that's an apology. I felt that this time it was sincere and I apologize for the way I responded to you, both in public and in private.