How do you find a song to step?

[trumaestro]

Outside of the "hey man, step this" factor of both the secret santa pack and the recent stepcon, I haven't really finished a file from scratch since Umlaut Ampersand went in to FFR. That was about a year ago. It's not from lack of trying; my wip folder has about 70 songs in it.

I have never considered myself a prolific stepper, but I see people in the batch discussion thread being all "here's 5 files I'm sending in for this batch" and I'm left wondering where they found these songs.

Maybe it's a case of a lack of motivation to actually finish a file. I understand the whole "step songs you like". I usually put that idea into practice. It makes sense, and I have 4 or 5 wips of songs off one of my favourite albums. Maybe those songs are above my ability at the moment. I don't know. It still doesn't explain why I can't seem to find and complete something simpler.

I feel like I already spend enough time creeping through the permissions thread trying to find anything worth stepping. It's a slow process and I've found maybe a couple of songs I might like to step, but won't necessarily make a good file. This post turned pretty blog-like, but I'm genuinely curious as to whether there's an easier way other people find songs to step.

And not "just step more virt/ssh/oster/sharpnel/yuyoyuppe/flashbulb/vsnares/t11 lul"

[Wayward Vagabond]

Ever since I was told by JX that we can use songs that are filed under creative commons license I have had a lot less trouble finding songs to step since there are A SHIT TON of awesome music that is under CC. This is strictly for ffr though. As for stepping things for SM back when that was a thing that I did I just listened to the music that i amassed over the years. I have a huge collection of music that ranges from everything to everything and I'm often finding cool songs that I downloaded forever ago that would be nice to step. I have a playlist called Stuff To Possibly Step on winamp that, while listening to my music on shuffle, I will add to when I come across something cool. There's also soundcloud and bandcamp, free music blogs(the blog moches writes reviews for to give you an example) and youtube are great places to find songs to step.

[trumaestro]

I'm not certain that I have trouble with where to find songs. Maybe what I should be asking is how do you know that you can actually make a file out of a song?

A lot of my wips I've given up on because I notice some issue or another with the song part of the way through stepping it. It's too repetitive. It's too long. It's got nothing to layer. It's got too much to layer. This section is boring. Only this one section is interesting. I've completely finished stepping some songs only to realize how boring my file is.

Is it possible to determine if you can make a good file from a song before you even start?

[Wayward Vagabond]

That just comes with finishing files and learning about what you are and are not capable of doing.

I don't really have this problem because any file that I make I make it for myself before anyone else so I always find my files enjoyable when I finish them. This may not be the case down the line when I replay my files though lol.

Before I even start stepping a song though, with some exceptions, I have already listened to it at least 10 times. If I'm going to cut it I already know where and I have a rough mental outline of how the file is going to end up. This isn't always the case especially with longer files. They end up being stitched together out of several different ideas that I have while stepping the song at different times.

[MarioNintendo]

I'm waiting for hi19's reply on this. I'm also genuinely interested.

[Wayward Vagabond]

"This has polyrhythms and fast 16th sections I can step this, yeah" - hi19

[hi19hi19]

I listen to a ton of music.
This makes finding songs easier.
Look for clean, steppable sounds, rhythmic complexity, and multiple layers of instruments or strong variation in the lead instrument. If you want I can go into more detail about these things but it's likely nothing you haven't heard before if you've read some of my stepping rants :P
Also make sure it's a proper length/possible to cut nicely.

EDIT- also I will add, make a lot of quick WIPs. The more times you try, the higher chance of finding a gem. And each song you fail to complete is a lesson on what to avoid when choosing songs in the future.

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

"This has polyrhythms and fast 16th sections I can step this, yeah" - hi19

This is my exact thought process.

[Tidus810]

I'd like to add that the OP reads like something I would write, verbatim. Dude, I'm genuinely in the exact same situation. I try listening to random stuff outside my comfort zone, I dig through permissions from time to time, and I've given a fair amount of songs a good shot, like you have. Similarly, one way or another I lose steam with each wip for a myriad of reasons. So I guess the points I'm making are:
1) you're definitely not alone
2) I have a btbam wip and am also looking at songs off that album worth stepping hmu if you wanna collab lol

[choof]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I listen to a ton of music.
This makes finding songs easier.
Look for clean, steppable sounds, rhythmic complexity, and multiple layers of instruments or strong variation in the lead instrument. If you want I can go into more detail about these things but it's likely nothing you haven't heard before if you've read some of my stepping rants :P
Also make sure it's a proper length/possible to cut nicely.

This. Go bandcamp/youtube/jamendo surfing. You'll find a bunch of new music. Don't be afraid to step short songs either. Stamina's overrated anyway.

[trumaestro]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

That just comes with finishing files and learning about what you are and are not capable of doing.

Before I even start stepping a song though, with some exceptions, I have already listened to it at least 10 times. If I'm going to cut it I already know where and I have a rough mental outline of how the file is going to end up. This isn't always the case especially with longer files. They end up being stitched together out of several different ideas that I have while stepping the song at different times.

I like to think I have the technical ability and even style to step whatever I want. Maybe, maybe not. Hard to tell sometimes. Who knows. Ramble ramble ramble

I already listen to a potential song to step a lot before I start. I get a mental outline of how I want it stepped. More often than not I get this mindblock when I start actually stepping. Maybe I should write this sort of shit down lol

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

EDIT- also I will add, make a lot of quick WIPs. The more times you try, the higher chance of finding a gem. And each song you fail to complete is a lesson on what to avoid when choosing songs in the future.

Probably the best answer I could hope for. Just ..unfortunate? I'm already doing this throw-enough-shit-at-the-wall-and-hopefully-something-will-stick routine. It's really frustrating to not be able to produce darn near anything to show for it.

Originally Posted by Tidus810

I'd like to add that the OP reads like something I would write, verbatim. Dude, I'm genuinely in the exact same situation. I try listening to random stuff outside my comfort zone, I dig through permissions from time to time, and I've given a fair amount of songs a good shot, like you have. Similarly, one way or another I lose steam with each wip for a myriad of reasons. So I guess the points I'm making are:
1) you're definitely not alone
2) I have a btbam wip and am also looking at songs off that album worth stepping hmu if you wanna collab lol

Probably the most comforting post itt so far. Doesn't lay all my ghosts to rest, but maybe it can bloom into something.

[XelNya]

Pretty much I only chart songs I like. If I come across something and I find myself listening to it on repeat like 20 times without getting bored I'll chart it. The idea of an interesting chart, or if others will play it doesn't really matter to me. I wanna play it, so that's good enough for me. If someone else enjoys it, that's a huge bonus.

[DossarLX ODI]

A helpful nugget of advice I can give is to not step a song just because it is long. I've been noticing the lower quality of marathon files that scream of "look at me I stepped a 6 minute file" only to find that it contains many errors and consists of too many filler sections.

When stepping hard charts, consider what the player will need to experience in your chart. Does somebody want to wait 3 minutes for the hardest part that lasts for 1 minute, then have 2 more minutes of filler? Again, there are submissions that abuse song length and repeat the same theme so it's like playing the same song again which does not add anything interesting from a hard songs perspective, it's just to piss off players.

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by trumaestro

is it possible to determine if you can make a good file from a song before you even start?

yes

conceptualize the file in parts that can be stepped in different possible ways, determine if there is a possible viable structure as a whole using those parts

you get better at it over time and i'm sure you can do it better now than when you first started

Originally Posted by XelNya

The idea of an interesting chart, or if others will play it doesn't really matter to me. I wanna play it, so that's good enough for me. If someone else enjoys it, that's a huge bonus.

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

any file that I make I make it for myself before anyone else so I always find my files enjoyable when I finish them. This may not be the case down the line when I replay my files though lol.

without going into too much detail, and even knowing that almost everyone shares this idea, i don't think that is a good mindset to have

[Wayward Vagabond]

I'm curious as to why you think that

[choof]

Originally Posted by ilikexd

without going into too much detail, and even knowing that almost everyone shares this idea, i don't think that is a good mindset to have

it depends on what kind of files one would make for themselves

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

I'm curious as to why you think that

i guess it depends on what you think the purpose of a chart is. specifically for ffr where you submit it to be played by a very wide audience i don't think your mindset should be "is it enjoyable for me? it's only a bonus if it's enjoyable to anyone else." it's not just for you to play, it's almost entirely for other people. and i've found that people use this mindset (i would definitely not apply this to you specifically) in order to shield themselves from any criticism because that criticism would be invalid per the idea that "this is just for myself to enjoy." and then they also delve into calling certain things "stylistic" or "artistic" choices and limit themselves from improving.

otherwise obviously that mindset is fine to have if you actually are just stepping the file for yourself to play, but that's not what happens.

[choof]

Originally Posted by ilikexd

i guess it depends on what you think the purpose of a chart is. specifically for ffr where you submit it to be played by a very wide audience i don't think your mindset should be "is it enjoyable for me? it's only a bonus if it's enjoyable to anyone else." it's not just for you to play, it's almost entirely for other people. and i've found that people use this mindset (i would definitely not apply this to you specifically) in order to shield themselves from any criticism because that criticism would be invalid per the idea that "this is just for myself to enjoy." and then they also delve into calling certain things "stylistic" or "artistic" choices and limit themselves from improving.

otherwise obviously that mindset is fine to have if you actually are just stepping the file for yourself to play, but that's not what happens.

I think it'd be safe to assume that the prominent simfile artists know when to aim a file at an intended audience.