TWG CLXV - The Wine In Front Of Me - Game Thread

[Hakulyte]

This bird's brain is more dense than mine.

[Hakulyte]

I guess convincing a wolf that he's a wolf is not easy.

[Charu]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

This bird's brain is more dense than mine.

Good joke

[Charu]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I guess convincing a wolf that he's a wolf is not easy.

Good joke.

[Hakulyte]

Charu, since you know the entire game, what's going on?

[Charu]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Charu, since you know the entire game, what's going on?

You are debating (lol, not even) with a wolf.

[Hakulyte]

Yeah, I can see that.

I can't see why town Charu would act like this after all.

[Charu]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Yeah, I can see that.

I can't see why town Charu would act like this after all.

Yeah man, you're totally right. Charu would never act like this at all.

[Charu]

Charu's is always up for some jokes and whatnot, but nah, he's been all serious and slinging shit this entire game.

Not even solving it, good grief.

[Hakulyte]

I'm glad you're honest.

[Wineandbread]

So ~1hr before eod:

Votes -- Lynch -- Voters
4 -- Charu -- inDheart (75), roundbox (29), Hakulyte (197), FreezinIce (167)
3 -- mellonxcollie -- ShadoWolfe (128), Charu (187), thesunfan (216)
2 -- inDheart -- Litodude (101), YoshL (68)
1 -- thesunfan -- mellonxcollie (49)
1 -- unvote -- Wineandbread (6)

rb -> unvote (guess he didn't like the charu wagon)
freezin -> unvote (same?)
Charu -> inD (wow I changed someone's mind ???)
sunfan -> inD (didn't feel like mellon vote was going anywhere)
freezin -> lito (s p i c y; mentions somewhere he doesn't like the wagons)
sunfan -> raeko (much flop wow)
freezin -> charu (this was wack as hell just look at it http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...postcount=3066)
sunfan -> inD (doesn't want Charu dead)
mellon -> Charu (self-pres, along with not wanting to vote inD)
rb -> inD (idk)
freezin -> raeko (black/white vote after being called out by rb)
shado -> inD (hammer but unnecessary, actually this vote looked kinda bad to me too but he's dead town so w/e)

Ending with:

Votes -- Lynch -- Voters
6 -- inDheart -- Litodude (101), YoshL (83), Charu (206), thesunfan (259), roundbox (50), ShadoWolfe (148)
3 -- Charu -- inDheart (75), Hakulyte (236), mellonxcollie (59)
1 -- mellonxcollie -- FreezinIce (191)
1 -- unvote -- Wineandbread (7)

For mellon: I still feel she is probably town but I really wasn't a fan of the sunfan tunnel at eod. Maybe just rushed + irl stuff but basically . Her initial suspicions on sunfan are "bad vibes" and I don't feel that it's a very strong argument (I can't.. or should say I don't want to verify the whole pocketing and self-meta thing, I need to sleep soon and I'll be busy tmrw till night). I think both people are quite tunneled in on one another and it just reminds me of the whole ordeal between AA and Shado. They both ended up being town. Are we sure that this might not be the case here?
Between just the two if I had to choose right now, I'd probably take mellon over sunfan. I might be a LITTLE biased from last game. Somehow her relentlessness on sunfan makes me feel she wouldn't do this as wolf. Sunfan hasn't swayed me hard in either direction.

I still didn't like yoshl at the first eod, nor the second eod. It really felt like he was prodding for the kill (#2896 comes to mind), and his argument "being inactive at eod is a sign of scum" argument in #2986 I don't agree with at all. I also didn't like his rationale for "if inD flips green mellon looks like shit". Does wolf mellon try that hard to defend a town? Not to mention he says she didn't substantiate her read but she did (she felt that universal scumread is a bad sign, as did freezin), though to be fair it wasn't 'universal' technically at that point. The whole exchange with yoshl at the beginning of today didn't feel right to me either. "vibes" I guess.

Everything about Haku's locked worldview (I forgot to mark the post number but it was the one where he basically calls out the sunfan/lito/charu team dynamic and never sees a W/T interaction and thus they must all be wolves) rubs me the wrong way but not in the sense that I think he's a wolf. Regarding him saying lito is the safest lynch... I feel like nobody talked about him? At all near eod? How would he be safe? I understand him going on Freezin to some extent (again, that Charu vote was extremely bizarre) although he's flaring up a bit much for it. As for leading the town I don't really have the time to do that, I subbed in quite reluctantly knowing I would be busy today (which didn't matter) and tmrw (which does). I'll try my best on the weekend though, I'll make Nino proud

I think it's really unsettling L-1 formed so fast on sunfan. The "next night phase" thing though... uh.

For now, my only real scumlean is yoshl, sunfan sitting close to the edge but possible salty bias. I'll look at other people later. I think I missed the majority of the inD flak, so I'm gonna break down the people who voted him, try to corroborate with the d0, and see if I find anything fishy. Tmrw evening though.

(for reference, I read up to post #3260)

sorry, and good night

[Charu]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I'm glad you're honest.

Yeah, I mean, Charu is just a dirtbag, that's what he is.

Just stalkin' in the corner and continuously going on this drabble with Haku. Like, it's a losing battle, for HIM at least.

I say we vote for him, I mean we can vote for the others, but I think voting him is objectively the best vote.

[roundbox]

kinda lost motivation but I'll parse these notable quotes next time I'm on
sure this will look like shit since I'm just putting a bunch of quotes up and ditching but I'm not really feeling anything right now

I don't have anything going on mid-day tomorrow so I'll be able to post actively then, which includes looking at this

it sucks that shadowolfe is the only NK that wasn't completely mechanical because we would have so much more information if this wasn't the case

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I didn't want to get involved because the more you post rn the better. I think you're going off a little too hard on Freezin tbh. I had him as top scum in my notes last night but he's had at least one post today that's made me reconsider.
Also his post saying you being in the background reminds him of recent wolfgames isn't as 0/10 as you think. I can see where he's coming from. Even when tunneling me, you didn't really push on me, you kind of called out stuff here and there and let other peeps do the dirty work for you. I don't agree with his conclusion on you, but I think you should consider building a backup wagon as well.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

@Freezin I think sunfan's pretty town tbh, but that depends on something... I think you can always revisit him later if you find something scummy, and if whatever you find is worth anything then people won't call you a flipflop. Progression of reads is natural, I don't think anyone really expects you to hold the same read forever.
Speaking of which, why did you go from calling out Charu as opportunistic and saying you could vote him all day to listing him as town in a matter of two posts? What caused your read to change?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

...and where do I say that?



How is acknowledging that Freezin had a point (at the time) about saying you being in the background is reminiscent of last game IN ANY WAY semantics?
I didn't feel much pressure from you last game. You keep saying you were tunneling me, but really that just means that you didn't move your vote. You didn't do much to maintain it though, comfortable in the knowledge that I'd get lynched. You might've placed the first vote, but I remember even saying early in D1 (first phase where I got pressure) that it felt like you were in the background cheering on AA to a mislynch.

If your push on Freezin had taken place after the Haku debacle, I would've wholeheartedly supported you (I had him as solid scum then)
As it is now, I think you guys are T/T. I don't know why you have 4 votes on you, and its weird that two of them are Haku/Tokzic. I'd suggest you step back and re-read Freezin's posts while imagining he's talking about someone else. Don't even look at the content 'cause you'll be biased, just read his posts and tell me he doesn't earnestly believe what he's writing.

I think I'm just gonna post my notes so y'all can see my initial reads. Obviously my notes will not be alignment indicative because I wrote them before joining game, but maybe it'll at least show you guys where I'm coming from.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Reactions on Haku Clusterfuck D0

choof town ("let me level with you like I did with Zenith many a time")

Gradiant town (shitposting w/ Charu to avoid drama, calls out sunfan, and calls out inD "whether the group cares about it shouldn't make him not look at the avenue right now")

sunfan likely town (questioning YoshL on Charuread, secondguessing himself, and having fun... later: "unusual first read" to mellon, mindmeld with what I wrote)

YoshL slight townlean (shows initiative on Haku, sticks with it despite potential consequences, refuses to move, changes read on charu twice "I mean, I initially had him as like, kinda town for the seriousness..." not sure if joking when he said aragakiayase probably scum)(later: "i think, i don't really need to say anything other than it wasn't a slip"..."I was only commenting on the player count, and even fucked that up." ... "if you believe it's a slip still, then cool...." ... "haku's original implication ... taken at face value ... seems like a valid assumption to make, but honestly isn't that valid")

Freezin likely scum (quotes posts with reactions like "jesus christ" "can you not" and votes haku without knowing votecount, seemingly at L-1. If haku ever flips wolf, Freezin is wolf on the wagon fsr... later reasoning for the vote: "i knew it wasnt insta?" "although haku getting asploded would have been funny")
Freezin (like him slightly better in "bruh if i cared about getting on towns bad side i wouldnt have done all that blatantly chaotic stuff" ... "but whatever floats your boat" ... "oh ok so you didnt read my posts gotcha", because his self referencing in those posts is in blatant contrast with his last game as Jade Harley)(also "heads up if eod comes and sunfan still hasn't clarified his vote on me atm im going to vote him no questions asked" which he later backed up by quoting sunfans vote and calling him out again)(why are freezin and inD both focusing on sunfan all of a sudden?)
Freezin maybe town "oh, I get it" ... to gradiant: "dude im shaking my head at you ... your the one whose a fucking cheesecake you completely misunderstood that post and went on a retarded tirade about it" ... "and now your vomiting words in my lap like this is somehow my fault" ... "thats my argument you fruitcake" Starting to see Freezin/Gradiant as T/T

inD null-slightwolflean (called out by Gradiant and responded with "I'm actually just lazy and don't want to do it tonight but I do think there's something to be gained from it". Also weird comment to freezin "how's that chaos going for you" when freezin omgused choof's vote. also "sunfan/yoshl, you two seem to be getting different things out of charu's posts. sunfan, can you develop why "those posts" make him null?") inD also defending YoshL "but the way his posts were phrased"... "doesn't need to make him out to be a wolf"
inD looks better for ("freezin has kind of a thing about "appeasement" as town...", "reminder to ask sunfan tomorrow whether he means this") (also, why are freezin and inD both focusing on sunfan all of a sudden?)
inD looks worse again for refocusing on Freezin when Gradiant kept pushing Freezin. also "has he ever seen you wolf" to YoshL gives the impression that he thinks yosh is always town

mellon odd for defending Freezin off the bat and not saying much else other than "you guys are going hard early"

Haku probably town for "Is the bold a slip? it's like you knew my alignment already at this point" to YoshL about 11p nightstart

Charu to Haku: "then don't be bait, unless you love playing like bait" ?



Stopped at "ok if you cant deal with cognitive dissonance maybe your playing the wrong game"


^^^raw unedited so sorry for the format
In reading up the day after writing that (but still before replacing), Charu seemed off but that's still a diagnosis in progress, and I'd reset Haku back to null for fading out of thread and not posting as much since that shit went down

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

As far as I can tell, this is the post sunfan was referring to when he says screaming to move.


I think he meant the wagon, not the read.
Maan hard defending him here is gonna fuck us if he ever flips wolf, but I really don't think he will soo I'll risk it

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

inDheart
Of those three, I really can't say. Raeko has precedent at staying UTR until she has to resurface, lightknight's logic is ?????, and Tokzic hasn't made a non-RP post except to vote sunfan.

inD at least I feel has posted enough to where I can read him a little, and he came off as scummy during the Haku debacle. Also, if he flips wolf I'm going after YoshL tomorrow.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Why is your list exactly mine :O
2spoopy4me
Even the sunfan read uses the same wording :O

Except I wouldn't place Charu THAT low just yet. Also you missed YoshL..........

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Freezin/sunfan have been involved in a long, drawn out squabble that is most likely TvT and from which they will not leave. Tokzic has yet to post since his last RP post. lightknight is literally insane, but he has a life and IS MAD SO HE WILL VOTE FREEZIN. Mellon is apparently reading up somewhere but hasn't responded to my ping checking if she was still here. Hakulyte is still Hakulyte. Roundbox is being roundbox, albeit the likely town variety, although I have not seen him play wolf in a long while. inDheart is slowly trying to make his way back to good graces by being calm and slowly building reads. YoshL came back for a moment and has receded into the blackness from whence he came, which is also where his soul resides for camouflage reasons. Charu is an interesting person who we all love but may or may not be a wolf instead of a bird.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

That was Xel. FreezinSun are never W/W here, sunfan wouldn't bus that hard for that long ever.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Agreed but he definitely got better. Join me on YoshL?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

NOTE:Raeko is doing that thing where she comes in to dispel negative opinions on her and disappears. Pro UTR

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

THIS IS FUCKING WEIRD WHY ARE THE STRANGEST PEOPLE JOINING ME ON THIS WAGON

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

About the point of no return / better thing to do, I'll have to disagree. I don't have as much experience as most of you, but most heated arguments I've seen develop D0 are TvT. Wolves won't want to single themselves out in a thunderdome like that because they're trading themselves for one town. That same stubbornness is what got me off AA last game, and I think him seeing me question and develop other reads helped him townread me as well. Before that, me and Raeko got fed up with each other in the same game. In CLIX, Gradi/Freezin, me/Freezin, me/MML, and me/inD all dominated multiple pages of arguing. All TvT. I think it takes a really confident wolf to enter a heated thunderdome D0. They've gotta be pretty shre they can mislynch the other person or make them look bad or at least come out of it looking better than them, AND have to avoid people being so sure it's W/T that it causes them to get caught the next day.

Thinking about it now, that's more likely from you than from him. Also, I really don't think "spending 10 pages talking about how sure you are" means you can't change your mind or refocus. I also think you know that, though. I'd ask "why were you so concerned with your image that you thought there no return?", but that's a loaded question and may not be inherently true.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Lmao @squealing
I feel like I'm always saying this but I just wanted her to post more. Pinging roundbox is good, but well within Raeko's range as either alignment. Hence my very next post only slightly adjusting her alignment for that post for the original thought of pinging roundbox.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Well, tokzic's flipped so

That leaves Haku, Raeko+Freezin, Lito (in order of scumminess imo)

Yeah I'd say at least one wolf is a fair assessment

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Lmao lito I don't remember the 2nd half of inD's vote. LESS CHAOS than usual? Ridiculous.

@sunfan I'd bet its within Haku/inD/Raeko. I got Lito at a townlean atm, would've been stronger if he didn't have the strangest combination of opinionated objectivism I've ever seen, but that's reminiscent of his town game too. Only problem with opinionated objectivism is that it lets him push his potential agenda under the guise of seriously believing "my actions are always 100% best for town".

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

This is a good catch.
Solidified townread for Lito
Slight bonus town points for sunfan

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Don't even try it. His slot is still 10x more towny than yours atm. I saw your question earlier and wondered if it was even allowed, and whether you'd use it as a base for scumreading him after he left.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Fair. I remember generally agreeing with his wolfreads and noting that he had complete mindmelds on reasonings for sunfan and inD.

Again, it depends on whether wolfbox busses actively, but I have him townier on the basis of his reads alone

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Shit that vote impacted my townlean on him, too 'cause I thought he voted inD then got off once inD "wasn't scrambling"
Guess I gotta reread roundbox later.
K peace lmao

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

You get major brownie points and some town points here

To be clear, I don't think I ever lynch lito this phase. Putting him in my town core with choof and sunfan. Roundbox was in it yesterday but idk what to make of 0 posts this phase.

Also trending up imo: YoshL (with a hint of paranoia and a pinch of salt for low post volume)

Were trending up but slowed their posting down: Charu, Freezin

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

If my vote wasn't already on you this'd probably trigger it. I've said this 1000x, but.. If your primary reason for voting someone is info, you better provide exactly what info you're after or gtfo

What info do you gain from sunfan's lynch?
Exactly what's your next step if he flips town? What if he flips wolf?
Exactly how will his flip affect your reads in both cases?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Likely town, town, and town.
You almost had me thinking the game was over with that shit
Level of care is NAI. My level of care dropped immensely last night so I got lit and read a book instead. That shit doesn't matter if they find time elsewhere to gamesolve. Games are draining lol not much you can do about that

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Tl;dnr of reads:

Choof,
lito,
sunfan towncore in that order.

Freezin,
Charu,
YoshL town leans in that order. I think there could be one UTR wolf here, but I'll worry about that later if I have to. Freezin reads genuine (where did he go?), I've liked YoshL's content, reads, solve approach while he's here (wanted him to post more and he's starting to do that), and Charu's been solidly town with several mindmelds and on point responses/prodding (only complaint with Charu is there was a point where I remember thinking he was subtly manipulating an interaction, but that feeling kinda dissipated)

Roundboz slight townlean. Liked him a lot EoD D0 (he had 2nd towniest imo at the time, would've followed him onto a wagon if he'd been more proactive) but his solvey impression from D0 and the mindmelds of our reads have slowly been being replaced with a deep void of utr nothingness.

Raeko slight scumlean, see my post on her for more (60% confidence)
InD scumlean, see my posts on him for more (70-75% confidence)
Haku scumread, see my posts on him for more, and don't forget his potential slip at start of phase (85-90% confidence)


Sorry for format, phoneposting.
I guess my reads are kind of spread out in my posts because I've been caught up and noting my thoughts as they develop, rather than take notes and drop consolidated reads. I've been phoneposting most of the game, though, so you'll have to bear with me on that. If there's ever confusion on how I'm reading someone, just ask

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

unvote
Yeah I'm valuing my toneread over all the shitty logic, content, and wack ass shit Haku's done this game.

Also something's really bugging me about Freezin that I had forgotten after EoD and just remembered
Pulling it up now

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

GUYS

LYNCH FROM IND AND RAEKO

IDGAF about your other reads this phase

this is not becoming a shitfest like last phase

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I actually started the wagon on you.
You've been fixated on sunfan, haven't really done much aside from come in and hard defend Haku and call sunfan scum. Your posts are mainly reactionary, and while your tone was alright you haven't done much to solve the game. You were under pressure earlier this game (maybe last phase) and came in, gave a couple reactions, asked where roundbox went (diversion?) and disappeared again. I've seen you do the same thing as wolf.
I started this wagon three hours before EoD to give you time to respond.

What makes you town? Why should you not get lynched here?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I don't think she'd do that if they were both wolves tbh. I think shes the wolf trying to look good after inD flips green

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Charu

Yeah, I mean, Charu is just a dirtbag, that's what he is.

Just stalkin' in the corner and continuously going on this drabble with Haku. Like, it's a losing battle, for HIM at least.

I say we vote for him, I mean we can vote for the others, but I think voting him is objectively the best vote.

Sunfan/Litodude/Charu are all best vote.

No discrimination here.

[Hakulyte]

@roundbox

I think the one you should really isolate is Gradiant.

[roundbox]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

@roundbox

I think the one you should really isolate is Gradiant.

I can do this too tomorrow if I'm not feeling like garbage

[Charu]

A thought just occurred to me...

Why isn't litodude dead?

[Charu]

And Haku, before you fucking say what I think you're going to say.

I mean in nightkills. Why isn't he dead in nightkills?

[Charu]

Except for Haku, no one else was reading him as inherently top wolf tier. He was mostly town read.

...Then why shadow over lito...?

[Charu]

Or hell, why freezin' over shadow? Freezin was starting to be universally read as well.