World of Warcraft

[Tokzic]

My meta takes one blue gem.

But since my tear gier has no blue slots, I just stick it in my necklace, which has a blue slot at the moment and provides a socket bonus.

Blue gems aren't a huge deal as a DPS, you just want as few as you can get away with.

[devonin]

Accepting on a half a gem worth of MP5 or Stamina isn't nearly so bad as all that, especially when, as a JC, your dragon's eye gems are -solidly- superior to what else is out there.

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by devonin

Spirit, Stamina, MP5 and Spell Penetration. Not EVERY DPS finds them -worthless- just not exactly amazing. At worst though, they only have to burn 1 blue slot (Since they can make each of two blue gems be purple/green/prismatic instead of straight blue)

As for "the purpose of JC" you and I have a very strong disagreement as to the purpose of the profession. Number 1: The trinkets are fantastic, Number 2: The better gems are fantastic. Obviously certain professions are going to lend themselves to certain classes in their extra powers, and basic powers, and maybe it's just become the case that JC isn't for every DPS now.

Also: DPS metas that do not require blue sockets:

+21 crit, +2% mana
+42 AP, +run speed
+25 SP, +2% intellect

Number 1: The trinkets are fantastic (for some classes (not mine)).
Number 2: The better gems are fantastic (for now. Once epic gems come out, JC becomes the worst profession in the game stat-wise).

DPS Metas: I don't know of anyone who uses those metas for DPS. Really, nobody.

21 crit, 2% mana = healer gem. Also, extremely rare cut.
42 AP, + run speed = I have no idea who would want this, but there are several other 42 AP gems with different bonuses and they all require 2 gems that aren't red.
25 sp, 2% int = healer gem, again.

Our meta gem is 21 crit, 3% increased crit damage. It's far and wide the best one.

[tsugomaru]

I've never really had issues with gemming for certain colors. I've always had a wide variety of blue, yellow, and red gems because I can use them all. My favorite gems are the int ones, but because of the way my class is built, it's not a bad idea to pick up some spirit gems (blue) for mana regen and some spell power gems (red) for my heals.

~Tsugomaru

[devonin]

Best one doesn't mean you must use it if having to deal with a green or purple gem is so horrifically bad for you. Don't like using those, use another meta, or put a +10 all stats gem in something.

Considering there already are epic gems, stormjewels, and dragon's eye cuts -still- compare favourably to them (and you can have 3 instead of 1) the epic quality gems will make the JC benefits of dragon's eye cuts lessened, but I still will be perfectly glad for the profession.

For all you know, they might even make us some 213 trinket designs in icecrown.

[Grandiagod]

Yeah it's fun walking around with a level 75 blue trinket and oh whoppie my flasks last 2 hours boy i'm glad i chose alchemy

[devonin]

Erm, the JC trinkets are still Ilvl 200, and easily a match (for some though of course not all) for most 200 epic trinkets and even some 213s.

[Squeek]

Alchemy is currently the worst profession stat-wise, even though the bonus is technically the same. The problem is that you have to actually use the Flask to get the +37 / +64 benefit that everyone else passively gets. Sure, it's a Flask, so it'll persist for most of the entire raid, but I'd rather not have to use a consumable to get my bonus.

After the patch nerfing JC, its bonus drops to +39 / +66. So honestly, it's not too big of a nerf for most people (except for people who have to use terrible gems to meet their metas like every caster dps class in the game (and worse for people who had to use a 27 hit rating gem to be hit-capped because 368 hit rating is ridiculously high)). But the people who are defending this are concerned because of the epic gems mainly. If they don't provide higher-quality Dragon's Eyes after epic gems come out, there's basically no value in being a JC any more.

also: the jc trinkets are worthless to me, as are +stats items. The 42 hit trinket is the only one that benefits me in some way, but it's far too weak to be worthwhile. I barely get by with http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40255 and http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37873 together--I've had to gem hit, wear a hit cloak, neck, etc. SP mail does not have hit on it at all (with the exception of tier gear, and that only has 107 / 123 / 165 / 180 hit depending on the tier level.

[tsugomaru]

I think the idea is not to give any profession a huge edge over another. Every profession has their perks, but none will make any hugely superior to another. I mean for Tailoring, the cape embroideries and easy to afford pant enchants are the only perks. For enchanting, the ring enchants and extremely convenient to get enchants. For alchemy, I have infinite flasks so I can keep both of my characters flasked in all raids whenever I feel like it. If one profession was significantly better for me than another, it forces me to pick that profession or change accordingly. I don't want JC to be so overpowered that I need to drop a profession I've invested a lot of time and money in to to just keep up with other healers.

~Tsugomaru

[Squeek]

I only dropped Herbalism, so I don't care. My DK will be a better herbalist anyway with the mount speed increase and the ability to just park him in places with herbs.

Tsug, you forget Tailoring has the Embroidery procs too.

Every profession falls into the 38/64 category. 38 spellpower or 64 attack power are the bonuses. Some are slightly higher (JC is 39, Enchanting is 38, etc) and some are slightly lower (Alchemy has 37 when you actually use Flasks), but it's all around that number. It's mostly balanced.

[Grandiagod]

I don't give a flying crap about spellpower.

Give me regen!

[tsugomaru]

Originally Posted by tsugomaru

I mean for Tailoring, the cape embroideries and easy to afford pant enchants are the only perks.

I didn't leave them out. It's the only thing we get and it's not super helpful, but it's nice.

~Tsugomaru

[Squeek]

By the way I ran the numbers and it turns out JC is adding 64 SP currently (as opposed to every other profession adding 37-38) so yeah it's overpowered. But there are better solutions:

Keep the gems prismatic, but lower their quality down.

I don't know if this is average for DPS or not, but here's what it would be in a basic scenario for caster dps.

I need 2 blue gems for my meta. For the sake of argument, let's say I don't need Hit in my gems. I have two items with blue sockets that add +sp, so logically, I will use my blue gems in those sockets to get the meta bonus. The start of my comparison here is just to show that ideally, we'd want 10 red gems, though this wouldn't activate our meta. It could be more, it could be fewer, but 10 is a nice number so I'm going with 10.

Baseline comparison, no meta: 10 red gems, 0 sock bonuses = 190 sp (0)
Without Jewelcrafting to meet meta: 8 red, 2 blue, 2 sock bonuses = 180 sp (-10), gain meta
Current Jewelcrafting to meet meta: 7 red, 3 prism, 3 sock bonuses = 244 sp (+54), gain meta
Post-patch Jewelcrafting unable to meet meta: 7 red, 3 prism (red), 0 sock bonuses = 229 sp (+39), lose meta
Post-patch meeting meta: 5 red, 2 blue, 3 prism (red), 2 sock bonuses = 219 sp (+29), gain meta
My proposed idea to fix the problem: 7 red, 3 prism (26sp), 3 sock bonuses = 226 sp (+36), gain meta

My idea is to make the Dragon's Eyes 26 or 27 spellpower (and adjust accordingly for the other stats of course), but keep them prismatic. This will bring it in line with the 37/38 bonus every other profession gets.

As you can see, after the patch, Jewelcrafting's stat bonus falls well below the +37/38 mark at 29. That makes it worthless. You may ask if 8 sp is really that big of a deal. I reply: if this whole idea is to make all the professions equal, why are they bringing it below everything else?

[Ground_Breaker]

Just to clarify, the socket bonuses you're trying to get are offensive stats, right? Not stamina or something else worthless?

I'm sure by now you're well aware of this, but you could always drop JC and go with BS for the +38 (or higher with epic gems) SP, although it does suck that you just finished leveling JC up...huge waste.

Originally Posted by Squeek

I reply: if this whole idea is to make all the professions equal, why are they bringing it below everything else?

No idea. Most everyone I see in the more hardcore raiding guilds on my server have their 3 JC prismatics, almost invariably. Kind of makes me think that those guilds require that their raiders have JC. Maybe the idea is that Blizzard doesn't want any profession to have to be a requirement for the best possible gear/gem/enchant setup for endgame content, because right now, you're right, the 3 prismatics that instantly fulfill meta reqs as well as filling ****ty socket colors for good socket bonuses pretty much make JC an awesome prof to have.

[devonin]

If something is good enough that everybody does it, it's too good. That's all.

[Gano]

Yep I agree with Devonin, JC has been overpowered for a while and I'm glad I didn't switch to it.

[Kagome]

When lightweave got a buff in 3.1 tailoring became the best caster dps profession. Second is JC.

[devonin]

I've been a JC since all we got as a profession specific benefit was the BC trinket, and making the Dragon's Eye gems colour specific bothers me not at all (Though, getting Stamina from blue, Defense from Yellow, and Dodge/Parry from Red mean as a tank, it's really -never- going to be bad for me, And getting MP5 from blue, Int/Crit from yellow and Spellpower from Red means as a healer, it's also never going to be bad for me.) Clearly JC is actually the "Paladin" profession. :P

[Squeek]

Devo, you didn't answer my question.

The goal was to make them all equal. This nerf makes it worse.

Why punish the people who switched to the best profession by making it the worst profession if the goal is to make all professions equal?

[Tokzic]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Devo, you didn't answer my question.

The goal was to make them all equal. This nerf makes it worse.

Why punish the people who switched to the best profession by making it the worst profession if the goal is to make all professions equal?

Wat.

For AP at least, it's 2 AP better than all other professions.

I don't know about anything else.