Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2

[kommisar]

I don't think ALL judges will be forced to play every file, but a minimum amount of judges have to play said file for a verdict to be reached.

Comments could be left on each file, revised, and edited. Fixes could also be submitted through this system quicker and judges would be notified of updates.

making a system like this would probably require more effort than is available atm :/

[psychoangel691]

I should have also noted in my previous post that a cap of say 2 files per month vs a cap of 3 files every what 3/4 months would be better XD (Again just throwing random examples out there)

[Wayward Vagabond]

Commentary on files isn't required judges just do it to be nice

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

The only thing I would say with this is that it might be hard for some judges to have all that one on one time with a simauthor or multiple depending. Maybe it can be more of a quicknote thing and then if someone really needs something clarified they can speak with the judge. Idk.

That is true. However, if they cannot consistently commit any time to go into details with a stepartist who is interested in knowing why they received such rating, then why would they be judges in the first place? (Honestly, this was the main reason why I stepped down from being a judge haha) Granted, everyone is busy and the meeting session with the judges doesn't necessarily have to be all in one sitting. It can be branched out in multiple small sessions like ten-fifteen minutes per day or something.

The idea of using quick notes is good for the judge's first time judging the file. It will at least start the stepartist off with something to work on.

[T-Force]

Apparently I'm the only one (or one of the few) who agrees with Middie that subs for extra files should be open..
Granted, judges can spit out charts faster than others, but what about those of us who have had files sitting for months waiting for batches to open? Call me ignorant, but what's so hard about having an open call (say like one file per person) for songs of X difficulty and having like 3-4 of the judges take a peek and give a rating on them?
That's just my opinion, take from it what you will.

[Jake Ferguson]

Originally Posted by T-Force

Apparently I'm the only one (or one of the few) who agrees with Middie that subs for extra files should be open..
Granted, judges can spit out charts faster than others, but what about those of us who have had files sitting for months waiting for batches to open? Call me ignorant, but what's so hard about having an open call (say like one file per person) for songs of X difficulty and having like 3-4 of the judges take a peek and give a rating on them?
That's just my opinion, take from it what you will.

Also one of the few that agree.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by T-Force

Apparently I'm the only one (or one of the few) who agrees with Middie that subs for extra files should be open..
Granted, judges can spit out charts faster than others, but what about those of us who have had files sitting for months waiting for batches to open? Call me ignorant, but what's so hard about having an open call (say like one file per person) for songs of X difficulty and having like 3-4 of the judges take a peek and give a rating on them?
That's just my opinion, take from it what you will.

There had just been a batch, this isn't like it was something that happened months after one. The batch finished, files were chosen from the 3 batches there were to choose from, then extra files were taken on to fill the gaps.

I also mentioned several times that I asked people if they had files of a difficulty, not to step them. Hi19 was the first person I went to because he missed the batch due to his power being out, also something I already mentioned.

[Xiz]

I agree with Fluvs.

[T-Force]

I'm aware of how long ago you had been collecting files. I'm just saying make a post saying
"Oh hey guys, we need a file that's approx. 64-67.
One chart per person, files accepted for a day (possibly less), will post results and pick the file."
Worst case scenario, you get one decent file. Best case, you get a really good file, and other good files that can either be accepted into the queue or resent next official batch.

Not to mention, saying you asked a few people just goes back to the original point of not having it open for everyone. I never saw anything, nor was asked by anyone, if I had a file available for this. Neither was Middie. Neither were probably many people. All I'm saying is that this is a community driven game and a public game. Why not make this opportunity open for the community.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by T-Force

I'm aware of how long ago you had been collecting files. I'm just saying make a post saying
"Oh hey guys, we need a file that's approx. 64-67.
One chart per person, files accepted for a day (possibly less), will post results and pick the file."
Worst case scenario, you get one decent file. Best case, you get a really good file, and other good files that can either be accepted into the queue or resent next official batch.

Not to mention, saying you asked a few people just goes back to the original point of not having it open for everyone. I never saw anything, nor was asked by anyone, if I had a file available for this. Neither was Middie. Neither were probably many people. All I'm saying is that this is a community driven game and a public game. Why not make this opportunity open for the community.

Because there's a time constraint to events that doesn't allow for that. You're both talking about having to look through several files and getting more judges that have the time to look over that many files. Even if it's one file per person if 20 people submit I have to find people who have the time to judge that 20 rather than the 1 or 2 I present to them. I really don't understand why it's so hard to see that. Any solution that involves having to open an extra batch to everyone takes too much time.

Then to get real technical if we only have it open for a day or whatever that's allowing people who have files to get in but not those who weren't prepared, so again it's not even fair to everyone collectively.


There's 2 solutions as of right now that would work:

1. Not using new files for the tournament.
2. Holding off on the event until every possible gap is filled which means both potentially holding files for a years time and holding up the event for however long.

Both of these seem pretty silly to do because of a few files that get judged but don't go through the batch.

[Charu]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

2. Holding off on the event until every possible gap is filled which means both potentially holding files for a years time and holding up the event for however long.

This one is not as silly as it sounds.

I have another idea for files specific for tournaments. It's a play on your second method.

Every single batch happens as normal, but there's also a secondary batch that's open at all times in which you can submit charts specifically for event usage and nothing else. Now this secondary batch is a little bit more stricter on who gets to submit for it.

I propose this secondary batch have the same criteria I mentioned before in my previous idea where they have to have 1 or more charts in the game already.

Of course, this idea requires the full attention of judges to be very active. However, I see this to be good solution for events specifically that call for new charts.

If this solution is not possible, then please disregard. Dohoho

EDIT: I remember how you managed the DF tournament. Something like that where it's open at all times.

[T-Force]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

Because there's a time constraint to events that doesn't allow for that. You're both talking about having to look through several files and getting more judges that have the time to look over that many files. Even if it's one file per person if 20 people submit I have to find people who have the time to judge that 20 rather than the 1 or 2 I present to them. I really don't understand why it's so hard to see that. Any solution that involves having to open an extra batch to everyone takes too much time.

Considering there's like 12-16 judges, I would think finding at least 3 or 4 for 20 files shouldn't be too hard. And 20 files isn't that much compared to the judges they face now.

However time constraint is something I hadn't factored in. My bad.

Either way, back to my once-a-week-or-so lurking which I've grown quite fond of.



Also, batch hopefully opens soon because this file here needs to be submitted instead of waiting around for oh so many months.

[AlexDest]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

- Alias / Rameses B - will be cut down a bit, probably ~2:20; have been testing a few cuts

Just saw this.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Charu

Now this secondary batch is a little bit more stricter on who gets to submit for it.

I propose this secondary batch have the same criteria I mentioned before in my previous idea where they have to have 1 or more charts in the game already.

This is still excluding people which is what the whole argument was about to begin with though.

[hi19hi19]

I think the problem with this is, the common thread between all the people who are complaining (that I've noticed) is that they have never judged a serious pack/FFR batch/Custom Tournament submission pool. Maybe random stuff here and there on TS (lol) but like, never a 100+ file batch with a super strict deadline.

Go try yourself, it's even more involved than giving reviews to a pack after the fact because the files you get are unrefined and take more work to review properly. And people care a lot more about what you say.

Lots of people are not giving the judges enough credit, just complaining without any idea how frustrating/difficult it can be to judge files (hint: it's why I'm not an FFR judge)

[Charu]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

This is still excluding people which is what the whole argument was about to begin with though.

Indeed, however I think the argument, or rather what's being brought up, is the personal bias in which only favored/well known stepartist are contacted for internal processes.

The way I see it, anyone who has more than one chart can submit, but it wouldn't be considered "biased" I would think. Who knows though? I'm just trying to help give ideas!

[Wayward Vagabond]

We don't need more batches to judge ahhhh

[kommisar]

If I really wanted to be anal, I'd judge files like we did for dark chancellors pack and rip every file apart on every little aspect for 100% quality.

Don't take the current system for granted. It's quite lenient IMO and getting a file in just requires a bit of effort, which some people are still complaining about.


Ideally, I would like to see this maybe someday:

- 2 to 3 files max per person every month
- batches every month
- stricter judging and higher score average for acceptance
- 2 to 3 mandatory charts per file

This would encourage people to think more carefully about their submissions, ensure more quality and at the same time, give easier charts for casual players.

[Charu]

Everything sounds good, but the one part I don't think might not work well is the 2-3 mandatory charts per file.

The way FFR handles songs, It'll simply be too cluttered with (Easy, Standard, Hard, Oni) variants of the same chart taking up more space since essentially you'll need separate .swf's needed within the engine itself.

I can see this happening though if FFR one of these days has the feature of having multiple charts on one .swf.

[psychoangel691]

We add tons of swfs anyway, what difference does it make if it's the same song with tags? In the widget days we had a lot of them.