TWG CLXV - The Wine In Front Of Me - Game Thread

[thesunfan]

there was on game on DM last night where there was a cop claim battle

people wanted to lynch outside of the cops so that the cops would be alive the next day to give more info, I had to fight to make sure that this didn't happen.

this is a BAD idea because you are essentially given a 50/50 between the cop claims and not taking it (especially because of a rule on DM that doesn't apply here) is really, really dumb.

It is similarly dumb to not kill your biggest wolfread so long as you can help it. It is the read that you are most confident in, if you are town it is the read that you are most likely to be correct on.

Killing outside of that is silly so long as you can help it.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

this is not going to happen and it never should barring some scenarios that cannot exist in this game

you should always try and lynch your top wolf, basically end of story

Why do this when everyone has the same top wof barring a few outside exceptions

[FreezinIce]

I'll respond to lito when I'm on break and can afford to look at my phone for longer than a min at a time

[Charu]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

You lose if you kill me today lol

You will be up shit creek tomorrow, literally in the same situation you were in today but minus a couple of consensus towns

lol

[FreezinIce]

The reason why your trending down for me atm sunfan is your play really fucking sucks and it feels like your ignoring all my concerns about your thinking

[roundbox]

Originally Posted by Charu

lol

Charu you're town for me now

how does this make you feel

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

where did he say this, because I feel like this is untrue

Ah, I just found "what I was seeing".

fml.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

@Litodude: Why would you make a "joke vote" on Sunfan?

#2062

I've read:

Originally Posted by Litodude

tokzic's vote on suns was definitely a joke.

As

Originally Posted by Litodude

vote on suns was definitely a joke.

..like Litodude was the one saying this.

It made me assume he drops his vote on you out of nowhere to jump on LK/Tokzic as if they were the priority.

My fault here.

[Hakulyte]

I spent the entire game assuming Litodude was like placing a serious vote on Sunfan followed by being like "it's a joke vote" until getting 2 PRs dead.

I was like wtf is this.

Misreading ftw.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

there was on game on DM last night where there was a cop claim battle

people wanted to lynch outside of the cops so that the cops would be alive the next day to give more info, I had to fight to make sure that this didn't happen.

this is a BAD idea because you are essentially given a 50/50 between the cop claims and not taking it (especially because of a rule on DM that doesn't apply here) is really, really dumb.

It is similarly dumb to not kill your biggest wolfread so long as you can help it. It is the read that you are most confident in, if you are town it is the read that you are most likely to be correct on.

Killing outside of that is silly so long as you can help it.

Ok just so you know your example has absolutely no bearing on what's happening right now. There is no claim. We have no concrete precentage of success, and utr we did have one it would be not even close to 50%. I'm asking you to take a step back, see that lynching the consensus scumread person has failed to produce results twice now, and consider a stratagy that you have yet to logically refute. If you have a problem with that, tell me what it in terms that make sense and are not blatant generalities that ignore context. Failure to do this will result in me accusing you of subversion for your own gain and my permanent vote on you.

[FreezinIce]

Utr > if*

Yay for phone typing

[thesunfan]

I confused which weekend it is; gonna leave for DnD in half an hour or so; won't be active tonight.

I feel bad because I haven't really provided as much this phase as I would have liked and I'm not going to be able to.

I think raeko, like Charu said, is almost always a wolf here. raeko

Haku, you told me that there are some accusations I should just ignore. I think that that's really, really dumb. Like, one of the dumbest things a player can do. I have been defensive, it is because I have had to be imo. The reason you have not seen me play like this is because I have not had to be defensive before with you in a game when I am town, I think. I have been trying to reason with you for a really long time now, and you're shooting down everything I'm saying. You cannot complain about people not listening to you when you are not listening to the people who are being reasonable when responding to you.

You have accused me of being not inquisitive (as has raeko). I have probably put more work into this game than anyone other than you, Freezin might rival that but that's not really the point here. I think this part of your accusation is just factually incorrect. I have reread the thread multiple times and explained my progression when asked. I have considered multiple worlds in many scenarios. I think the accusation that I have not been asking questions/trying to solve the game just is wrong, which I guess I've already said.

In the event that raeko is town (god forbid) and she is lynched today, you NEED to reevaluate your world tomorrow/this night phase. Charu is always town imo and I know I am. You might be right on lito. If she flips town, wolves WILL leave you alive if you are town because you will probably lose the game for town tomorrow by voting Charu/me.

If raeko is a wolf, and she gets lynched here, which is what should happen imo, I expect you to reevaluate, so that's fine.

If I get mislynched here, you ARE NOT ALLOWED to swap Yoshl/roundbox in for my slot in your reads and just say "well I was wrong on sunfan but my world still hasn't been broken." I could see you doing this easily. You have not reevaluted for a long, long time now, and if you don't do that coming into tomorrow if a town gets lynched here, I do not see how town wins this game.

If a town is lynched and you do not reevaluate your reads, town is going to lose.

If you cannot reevaluate on me, which honestly it feels like its gotten to that point, I think Charu has done extremely townie things as well. He has never been this serious as a wolf in his life. He probably never will be. Him voting himself and ragequitting the thread after interacting with you happens 0% of the time as a wolf. Please look at what he has done if you cannot look at what I have done and see that it is townie.

I understand that it looks like I am giving the blindreper treatment to lito here. He should be a top suspect if we go into tomorrow and it is lylo imo. I wanted to lynch raeko first and foremost yesterday, I was forced to lynch inDheart to save a townread of mine. You have accused me of not evaluating other worlds, and regardless of whether or not I am guilty of this (which I don't think I am but w/e), you are guilty of this.

The fact that Charu and I cannot be town together in your eyes is extremely worrisome. The fact that lito and I cannot be town together in your eyes, or even w/t, is extremely worrisome.

I understand that you have picked a world, but you've been in that world a long, long time, and there is a real chance that I get lynched here and you lose the game for town as a result.

I think you are town. I agree with you that you probably never get killed by the wolves for a multitude of reasons. You need to reevaluate your reads. The onus is not on Charu, lito and myself to break your world. The onus is on you to prove that that is the world.

I would not normally respond to someone posting in the manner that you have been anywhere near as much as I have been, but I feel something emotional here. I feel like your frustration about not being listened to is genuine. wabby mentioned talking about your play in the postgame, which is something I intend to do at length. If you do not listen to me now, I ask that you listen to me then.

Its been a hard game for you emotionally, especially if I am right and you are town. Getting shit on by people isn't fun. I've been there. But don't let the emotion associated with that lose the game for town.

Parting here, I might stick around for a bit longer depending on how long Pete showers for.

I am town.

I think Charu/Haku/Freezin/wabby should never be lynched here. I think the only person that has any wolf equity is freezin but he would have to be having the best wolf game I've ever seen him play by a long shot. I don't think he has it in him after rolling scum last game, I really don't. Honestly I think town needs to pick between raeko/myself today.

I think roundbox has been the most townie outside of that. Probably never gets lynched here anyways.

I think lito/yoshl shouldn't be lynched today because of the choice town has, I think they both have potential to be scum, yoshl moreso than lito because of overall gameplay. I can see Yoshl dreading the wolf slog here pretty easily. I really wish I could have expanded on this more today.

I have pretty much already talked about why I think raeko is a wolf. If I had to guess a team right now it would be one of lito/yoshl leaning towards yoshl, raeko and roundbox. I do not feel great about that team, but its what I would guess.

Will be here for a few more minutes. Will try to get away from the session towards EOD if I can.

[FreezinIce]

As long as we are talking about stupid plays, it's stupid to hold onto your reads in a vacuum and not consider other people who share your opinions and thier possible motivations

[Hakulyte]

@Sunfan

If you, Litodude or Charu gets lynched/NK'd

I will know by that point if I was right or not.

I'm having second doubts about Raeko/FreezinIce atm.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Why do this when everyone has the same top wof barring a few outside exceptions

town outnumber wolves so this is bound to happen

not everyone has the same top wolf

haku is right that the split is probably going to be 5/4 here with the swingvote being wabby.

that's not "everyone"

if people just vote their top wolves, wolves are going to be able to take advantage of that late in the game assuming town is not reading the game the same way.

That doesn't mean people aren't trying to kill their top wolves. That is still happening, or at least it should be.

You potentially lynching outside of raeko/me on roundbox, while probably town objectivism, means that the split would be 4/4/1 or 3/5/1, which is pretty gross.

If it becomes apparent that people do not want to kill roundbox, which honestly its probably already at that point, you need to bite the bullet and not waste a vote on him because at this point in the game a town vote, even if incorrect, is critical.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

The reason why your trending down for me atm sunfan is your play really fucking sucks and it feels like your ignoring all my concerns about your thinking

I am NOT ignoring your concerns.
I am telling you why YOUR play really fucking sucks, if we're gonna go there.

Fuck you.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

The reason why your trending down for me atm sunfan is your play really fucking sucks and it feels like your ignoring all my concerns about your thinking

I thought this was posted after my wall for some reason, which is why I took it more personally.

I take back the fuck you but I am not ignoring your concerns.

I have addressed why they are mechanically bad when it is this late in the phase and even Haku can tell that the players in the game are divided between two lynches.

If you want to start a wagon on someone else, its probably too late, but in the event its not, you need to start that now before later.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Ok just so you know your example has absolutely no bearing on what's happening right now. There is no claim. We have no concrete precentage of success, and utr we did have one it would be not even close to 50%. I'm asking you to take a step back, see that lynching the consensus scumread person has failed to produce results twice now, and consider a stratagy that you have yet to logically refute. If you have a problem with that, tell me what it in terms that make sense and are not blatant generalities that ignore context. Failure to do this will result in me accusing you of subversion for your own gain and my permanent vote on you.

there is no consensus scum lynch here

the split will be 5/4 unless you're throwing your vote away today.

that's why what you're saying is wrong

[thesunfan]

well, barring something crazy happening the split SHOULD be 5/4, I guess I should say that

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by roundbox

Charu you're town for me now

how does this make you feel

can you talk about how you got there

[FreezinIce]

It's me, haku, and mello.

And wab (?)

Everyone else is on mello