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View Poll Results: Which would you rather have?
ACC: Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo 236 60.36%
ACC: Marv/Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo 122 31.20%
DIFF: Single Difficulty per Song (Absolute!) 171 43.73%
DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu) 177 45.27%
ARR: 4 Arrows Only 251 64.19%
ARR: 4 or 6 arrows on some songs 96 24.55%
MULT: 2 Player Multiplayer Only 70 17.90%
MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer 273 69.82%
MINES - You must give a very good reason below! 32 8.18%
HOLDS - You must give a very good reason below! 95 24.30%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 391. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-30-2011, 01:37 AM   #1
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Default BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

I have always been told that:

It doesn't matter what my boss wants.
It doesn't matter what my supervisor wants.
It doesn't matter what I want.

If you don't ask the people who are getting your product, they probably wont like it. Therefore, I am taking the initiative to ask the simple questions that need asking when building a new Flash Flash Revolution engine.
What do you want?

Just answer the poll, comment about your choices, and discuss why you have chosen them.
Have discussions with others about why your choice is better, and convince your opposition.

Do not post suggestions here.
Do not rage.
Pick only one of each type.

Thank you.

Notes:
- Multiplayer will be the single player screen, with the stats of other players around it. (Or something of the like) The arrows of the other players will not show up on your screen.
- Arrows, voting "4 or 6" means that some songs, specifically harder ones, may include two additional arrows. The extremely difficult songs will no doubt utilize them fully.


This is a poll for the new Flash Flash Revolution engine, code-name: BLACKWEBB
This has nothing to do with the Velocity or Legacy engine!
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:21 AM   #2
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

Hi,
I've chosen these:

ACC: Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo <--Reason: Could never hit a marvelous.

DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu) <--Reason Some songs are too easy, some too hard.

ARR: 4 or 6 arrows on some songs: i wouldnt play 6 arrows but alot of people would enjoy so imo its a good idea. Kinda lose the spirit of ffr tho, 4 arrows 4 life.

MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer<---The more the better

HOLDS - You must give a very good reason below! <--Very good reason being some songs have long notes that would be awesome to hit as HOLDS, (*but the option to have or not have em in the song should be a menu option*) , im not making a suggestion just explaining that if you are forced to play Holds in a song some people might not play it at all. but the same applies to jacks and trills, so it doesnt matter. I'm totally against mines tho.

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Old 07-30-2011, 02:34 AM   #3
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

a yes for HOLDS and MINES in my votes

HOLDS: they add another dimension to simfiles, and if used well, can add legitimate challenge, interest, and fun to the game. It can be abused just like any other technique, however. Judging would have to take this into account.

MINES: once again, they add another dimension to simfiles, but use with discretion - just like anything right? However, if there is one doubt I have about this, it's how it would affect scoring. I'm certainly fine without mines if it's too difficult to implement. However, if possible, mines should be fun with careful and limited usage.


ACC: Marv/Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo
It doesn't hurt to show another degree of accuracy towards your playing. However, AAAs are still obtained in the same way: get all perfects and/or marvs, just like stepmania. I'm not sure if AAAAs should exist on FFR though. If so, it shouldn't be host to a bunch of achievements/tokens that may be near impossible to get for most people (unless it's an easy song).

DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu)
I'd like to stress that this should be variable and optional, but ultimately preferable. Multiple difficulties are better, but some songs just won't produce more than one good chart, nor should simfilers be forced to make multiple charts if they don't want to. If all songs had multiple difficulties, it make AAAing/FCing songs on FFR more of a bore.

ARR: 4 or 6 arrows on some songs
I've talked many people into playing solo (6 arrow) files, and many of them are just extremely meek about it. I think one way to encourage playing this very fun alternative is to introduce them into FFR. And once again, it adds another dimension to the game. Just like multiple difficulties, whether a song has a solo variation (or solo only?*) should be limited. Either that, or count solo as a completely separate entity. Otherwise, it's another AAA/FC bore. I don't think people should be concerned about KBO and such. There shouldn't be one site that "owns"/"dominates" solo and another that "owns"/"dominates" 4-keys. I think it would be an appreciable addition, and outweighs whatever exclusivity you may feel towards the site...so what if KBO is mostly solo-oriented? FFR should be welcome to make solo files as well. It wouldn't dilute the "special touch" that is FFR.
*should all songs have traditional 4-arrow files with some having solo files, or should some songs be exclusively solo? I have a feeling people will side with the former.

MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer
The more the better - IF it's within reason in regards to bandwith, and how much the simultaneous plays affect the game (e.g. lag).

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Old 07-30-2011, 02:35 AM   #4
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

ACC: Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo: Why add Marvelous that's just gonna make it harder to get better scores. LOL
DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu): I love a lot of songs on here, some of them being the easier ones, some being harder, so it would be nice to be able to pick it in different difficulties.
MULT: 2 Player Multiplayer Only: I like one on one stuff, but that's just me. It'd be weird to see like 4 different screens of arrows at one time right?
HOLDS - You must give a very good reason below!: I enjoy holds what can i say, especially ones where you hold down 3 or 4 keys.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:43 AM   #5
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

In my opinion if mines and holds are added as a feature it should be more like an optional mod, not something that counts against your scores. I kinda feel like adding them is just making ffr start to conform more to other rhythm games. That's just my opinion on it.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:43 AM   #6
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

[Accuracy]
We can handle Marv accuracy with a 60 fps engine.
I don't think Marvs should affect scores, but still you can know your accuracy more precisely.
Supporting Marv system.

[Difficulties]
Obviously multiple difficulty system will make the ingame song list cleaner.
However, I don't want to force steppers to make 3-4 charts for a song like thirdstyle, so people should be able to submit files with single difficulty as before. Also, it will restrict the flexibility of music-cut.
Multi for better appearance, Single for the flexibilty.

[Arrows]
I think we should stick to 4-key.
Main reason is it's really hard to keep both arrow system nicely at the same time (simfile-wise).
Other site like KBO has the speciality for 6-key.
It's not bad to have some 6-key files, but not necessary if we can't have good amount of high quality 6-key files.

[Multiplayers]
Playing with more players is more interesting.
The screen will be more simple and smaller, but real multiplayer system(4 or more) is definitely worthy.

[Mines]
I'm kinda against mines (Stepmania's), but I think we can have some visual effects that doesn't affect the score.
For the parts where we don't to put arrows but want something.

[Freezes]
Sometimes we need freezes to express the music nicely, so yeah.
But for the most part freezes aren't mandatory, this is quite optional.
Visual-wise great, scoring-wise a bit messy.
As an engine feature, we can have freezes imo (we can restrict files that have freezes if we want).

Last edited by jimerax; 07-30-2011 at 02:54 AM..
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:51 AM   #7
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

[Acc] Marvs
Reason: Eventually flash will have proper hardware acceleration and never lag again, so why not bake in marvs now rather than have to do it later? If scoring is a worry, make them only be used for tiebreakers

[Difficulties] Multiple difficulties per song
Should be variable - a song can have 1 to many charts for it. Make it possible to backfit new charts onto a song already in game somehow, possibly even made by a different person. Finally, since you can't sort by difficulty anymore, you'll need some kind of 'I want to play difficulty X to Y' widget, and it restricts the song selection to songs with charts in that range.

[Arr] 4 or 6 arrows on some songs (this is the one I'm most willing to compromise on though)
If you're going to have 1 to many charts with no restrictions, why not have both singles AND solo? You can turn one or the other on or off and set up keymaps for both, and it should be obvious before you go in which one you'll be playing. The biggest problem would be statistics - for people who only want to play one mode, do you need to duplicate statistics like average rank? Ah, I know - the 4k/6k/both switch that you set in game should apply to the site too - so when you or someone else looks at your statistics, it shows you the stats for your preference.

[Mult] 2 or MORE
Why not?

[Mines] Purely for visual effect
Since they won't effect anything they should be easy to implement :O) You can just - files that use them shittily if it comes to it

[Holds] Sure
If you're worried about hold****fests then again, instate a judgement rule for them.

As you can see I pretty much want as much as possible rofl, better to have it than to not
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

ACC: Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo
-Blackwebb at 60fps can support Marvelous accuracy, and that sounds pretty cool, but doesn't that complicate things when it comes to records with top scores, AAAs and the like?

DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu)
If someone likes the song they are playing but aren't good enough to pass it... well, you see where I'm going with this.

ARR: 4 Arrows only
I can barely cope with 4 arrows, let alone 6.

MULT: 2 or MOAR Player Multiplayer
The more the merrier, but I don't go on multiplayer anyway.

HOLDS: You must give a very good reason below!
Everyone in the world likes holds... but I suck at them. So I want holds.

If I'm contradicting myself, disregard everything that isn't in bold. Apart from this.
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychoangel691 View Post
In my opinion if mines and holds are added as a feature it should be more like an optional mod, not something that counts against your scores. I kinda feel like adding them is just making ffr start to conform more to other rhythm games. That's just my opinion on it.
I actually have to agree with this
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

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Originally Posted by jimerax View Post
[Freezes]
Sometimes we need freezes to express the music nicely, so yeah.
But for the most part freezes aren't mandatory, this is quite optional.
Visual-wise great, scoring-wise a bit messy.
As an engine feature, we can have freezes imo (we can restrict files that have freezes if we want).
Even though it's not on the list I believe this is a very very good idea. One downside to it is that casuals might not know many songs and this could be their downfall.


ACC: Marv/Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo <-- Why not implement this as an optional mod that will not increase your score, but rather a way to increase your pa (perfect attack)

DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu) <-- It makes it easier for new players because they'd be able to play any song

ARR: 4 or 6 arrows on some songs <-- I just really like o2jam and the 7 key feature, but with ghosting 6 arrows could be a problem for some so it might limit steppers.

MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer <-- I love playing with more than one person

MINES: <--You must give a very good reason below! <-- Might be a bad idea since a lot of people start off button mashing when they first play the game, adding mines would just crush their hopes and dreams of passing songs 9+

HOLDS: <--You must give a very good reason below! <-- Often when playing some charts I'd wish that there were holds, it adds a lot of difficulty.
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:05 AM   #11
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

Accuracy: Keep current system. Other games have done marvelous (KBO and SM specifically) and I find that it just creates more of a disconnect between the typical player and the topmost players. You're struggling to FC some VC or something, and you look and see that AlexDest has a quad on it. I think adding Marvelous to the scoring would be a bad idea, but I could see a use for it if it's just displayed for statistics' sake.

Difficulty: Single difficulty per song, because the TS style of forced multiple charts means that charts tend to be more rushed. But I do think we should be less strict towards the option of multiple charts for a song, especially if they are all good.

Arrows: 4 arrows only. I'm sure Solo is fun but it seems to, again, just create a bigger disconnect between the typical player and the crazy insane players - it takes a lot more work to read a dense 6key pattern than a dense 4key pattern, and I don't think a lot of people will bother to get to that skill level.

Multiplayer: More than 2, for sure Make it like SMO, perhaps, so it shows scores but doesn't show everyone playing at once, for lag purposes.

Mines and holds: No and no. Mines just add visual complexity to a file, making it harder to read, and this is one problem I have with TS and their xmod stuff (it's fake difficulty). Also, we already have a boo system, which is like having mines everywhere. And holds are just annoying too, because I find that most people nowadays overuse them with miniholds and holdstream patterns, and end up just making the song harder to read/hit for no real reason. Plus, KBO, TS, and SM already have holds - I'd rather keep FFR unique.
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Repeating, please no retarded files that aren't even going with the song

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Old 07-30-2011, 07:15 AM   #12
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Talking Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

Here's what I voted for:
ACC: Marv/Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo
DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu)
ARR: 4 Arrows Only
MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

ACC: Marv/Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo - I like the idea of adding Marvelous into the accuracy equation as long as you get the same amount of score for a marvelous as you do for a perfect. This way it won't have an effect of scoring but can more accurately define someone's accuracy one a song.

DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu) - I like this idea since some people may not be able play certain songs because of the difficulty. A different difficulty isn't guaranteed since a separate file would have to made but at least now there is an option.

ARR: 4 Arrows Only - I think 4 is enough.

MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer - If you can do it, go for it. I think I would be fun to play against multiple people and find the outcome than just against one. This also might be something to give multiplayer a big boost.

HOLDS and MINES - I think holds should be implemented because holds would more accurately express certain notes or musical attributes in a song. I am against having mines though.
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

acc: perf/good/avg/miss/boo
reason: It's FFR not Stepmania

diff: One difficulty per song
reason: I'm indifferent and I think it's less work on the coding/stepfile making side of things, also.. This is FFR not ThirdStyle

arr: 4 arrows only
reason: this is FFR not Keybeat

mult: 2 or more player multiplayer
reason: the more the merrier.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:09 AM   #15
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

No Marvs, if I wanted Marvs I'd play SM. -__-

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acc: perf/good/avg/miss/boo
reason: It's FFR not Stepmania

diff: One difficulty per song
reason: I'm indifferent and I think it's less work on the coding/stepfile making side of things, also.. This is FFR not ThirdStyle

arr: 4 arrows only
reason: this is FFR not Keybeat

mult: 2 or more player multiplayer
reason: the more the merrier.
Pretty much everything Rushy said is how I feel too.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:16 AM   #16
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

i dont want this looking too much like SM after the huge update. so no to 6 key, mines, holds, and marvs.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:40 AM   #17
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i dont want this looking too much like SM after the huge update. so no to 6 key, mines, holds, and marvs.
What features do you want it to have then?

I can understand wanting to differentiate yourself from the competition, but you don't do that by refusing to add anything
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:57 AM   #18
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

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I can understand wanting to differentiate yourself from the competition, but you don't do that by refusing to add anything
That worked for Apple.
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:00 AM   #19
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

i like how FFR is now why do we have to add stuff to it. i dont want to have to learn how to 6 key or mine dodge just so my ranks are ****ed up
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:02 AM   #20
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That worked for Apple.
Sadly it might not work for FFR since we're not hipsters like most of Apple's customers.
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