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View Poll Results: Which would you rather have?
ACC: Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo 236 60.36%
ACC: Marv/Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo 122 31.20%
DIFF: Single Difficulty per Song (Absolute!) 171 43.73%
DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu) 177 45.27%
ARR: 4 Arrows Only 251 64.19%
ARR: 4 or 6 arrows on some songs 96 24.55%
MULT: 2 Player Multiplayer Only 70 17.90%
MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer 273 69.82%
MINES - You must give a very good reason below! 32 8.18%
HOLDS - You must give a very good reason below! 95 24.30%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 391. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-30-2011, 12:55 PM   #41
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

ACC: Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo Yes, stick with the original 5 graded arrows.
ACC: Marv/Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo No, too confusing and damaging to previous gameplay. AAAs, AAs will be more diffculty to earn.
DIFF: Single Difficulty per Song (Absolute!) No, some songs are deserving of an easier stepchart. Strawberry sweetz, ELEVEN11, etc.
DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu) Yes, read reasoning above.
ARR: 4 Arrows Only Yes, 6 arrows is too much for FFR. Also considering most aren't used to that type of skill. If anything, make it optional.
ARR: 4 or 6 arrows on some songs Above reasoning.
MULT: 2 Player Multiplayer Only No, things get old after a while. 2 people is just not enough for competition.
MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer Above reasoning.
MINES - You must give a very good reason below! No, this isn't ITG bro.
HOLDS - You must give a very good reason below! Maybe, but then again, FFR is famous for the simple yet complex stepcharts. Most likely a no.
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Old 07-30-2011, 12:59 PM   #42
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

I voted for marvs. But only for visual kicks because like others I wouldn't want to switch to AAAA'ing everything. I even suggest making the marv merely a variation of the perfect...like, for instance, a "gold perfect" versus the green perfect. That way the "perfect" count is maintained, yet you could see how many of those were "gold" (which doesn't impact your score). For records, gold:green ratios can be tracked and compared away from average ranks. That's just a suggestion. But whatever is done, just make sure adding this doesn't bring in another primary means of competition.

I voted for single difficulties. Not a big deal to me actually, but I highly suggest not to require it. Steps should fit the song. Visually there has to be a way to find multiple-diff songs out of the main list so users don't miss "buried" songs. Otherwise, leave it like it is (the "light/heavy" annotations without any groupings work well for me, esp. since they're rare as of now).

I voted for 4-arrows only. I'll admit I have my bias as a one-handed player lol, but from a simple gameplay perspective it shouldn't be added. I don't think that many players have been waiting for 6-key charts in FFR, and I'm not really sure how many players can handle that hardware-wise (key ghosting, as mentioned already). It's just not needed imo.

I voted for 2+ multiplayer. If it can be done, why not?

And lastly, I did not vote for mines nor holds. I agree with the boo system accounting for mines already, and holds are fun yet not needed (once again). I've never had a problem with the no-hold system FFR currently has, and the game is still fun. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. FFR is doing well; adding these features is a risk that shouldn't be taken imho. The same goes for 6-key charts now that I think about it.

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Old 07-30-2011, 01:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

ACC: Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo - Keeping the original system in place in which everyone is used to would be the better idea. If you're gonna implement MA timing, then make it optional and not count towards level ranking/stats.

DIFF: Single Difficulty per Song (Absolute!) - One difficulty per song is already fine as it is. Forcing people to multi-chart will most likely end up having either 1) rushed files or 2) files with no effort in them because multi-charting is a pain in the ass.

ARR: 4 Arrows Only - Again, sticking with the basics is always a good thing. 4K is still going strong on its own. 6K would be an implementation that pretty much 1% of the FFR community would bother touching. Leaving it out would be better.

MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer Yes, 2+ people in Multiplayer would make MP a hell of a lot more fun and enjoyable. The current 1 vs. 1 system gets kinda boring after a while.

As far as mines and holds are concerned, I'd rather not.
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:28 PM   #44
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

This post saves me what I have to do in the suggestion form, so I'm really happy to see this.

I'll give my thoughts based on the amount of rhythm gaming knowledge I have.

ACC: Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo
ACC: Marv/Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo


Suggestion: make marv/perf worth the same amount of points, but sort the tied perfect scores by the marvelous count, and sort the ranks by the scoring system.

ex: 100 m/1 p/0 g/0 a/0 m/0 b vs. 99 m/2 p/0 g/0 a/0m 0b; where m & p = 50 pts (just like FFR's current raw scoring system).

Both players would have the same 5,000 points; since they've achieved the same score with no greats (which means no higher "score" exists), they'd both be rank 1. However, you would sort the rank 1 players by their marvelous count, so this way, the player with 100m would be above 99m, even though they'd both technically have a AAA score. In this scoring system, marvelous ratings do not count, so we don't have to legitimately take away ranks from players who might find it a bit more difficult to get consistent marvelous ratings (due to hardware, keyboard issues, whatever).

DIFF: Single Difficulty per Song (Absolute!)
DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu)

Having a combination of these would make the game smoother - combine those with multiple levels into one package (fit them all in one .swf, or one .sm), etc. However, forcing multiple difficulty charts = no thanks.

ARR: 4 Arrows Only
ARR: 4 or 6 arrows on some songs


I've often wondered if it was possible to make EX/[A] style charts by expanding the play field or adding some sort of difficulty boost. However, FFR seems to stand well as a four key game, so it might be beneficial to leave it this way.

MULT: 2 Player Multiplayer Only
MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer

2 or more. People like to get together in groups.

MINES - You must give a very good reason below!
HOLDS - You must give a very good reason below!


Having these in FFR wouldn't be a big deal, but the best way to go about this in my opinion would be to mark the scoreboard with small symbols to mark what they did on their best run.

Take FFR's scoreboard as an example:

In Game:
Player - Score - Mods
etc1 3,000,000 Up, HM
etc2 3,000,000 Down, M
etc3 3,000,000 Up

etc1: Upscroll, Holds, Mines
etc2: Downscroll, Mines
etc3: Upscroll


You could add other little markers for modifiers if you care about them. By having these markers, you could show off that you did the song with these options, without changing sort. Those who want the new features can use them to their enjoyment, and those who don't want them can leave them off with no changes on their ranks of songs.

EDIT: almost forgot: make holds and mines non-scoring, and keep a counter in stats/ranks. Allow them to be enabled/disabled in game, to make everyone happy.

Last edited by TC_Halogen; 07-30-2011 at 01:32 PM..
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:33 PM   #45
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

I think holds would be good, it expands ways to step a chart and gives another way to denote a sound other than adding another note to a chord. A great way to add dimension to a file. Whenever I play a file on FFR that has a sound that's charted as a single note, that would be better as a hold, it feels to me that it ruins the flow of the file.

I think it would be a great idea to have holds and mines as an optional mod.

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Old 07-30-2011, 01:56 PM   #46
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

I am completely against having holds and mines. I play this game because there are neither of those things. Mines take away from the rhythm game experience in my opinion. They make the screen confusing and they make it so you have to avoid something instead of keeping your fingers moving with the flow of the arrows. Maybe some people think that is fun, but I do not. It just makes it more annoying. Holds are fine in stepmania and DDR, but we don't need them here. This game has always been just as good without them. I don't see holds as an innovative step in the progression of FFR.
As others have said, having these two would be ok as optional mods that you can turn on and off, but not as permanent parts of the game.

Something I do think would be good is adding the marvelous accuracy point. It would add an extra level of accuracy to the game and we wouldn't have to go to stepmania every time we need to practice our accuracy.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:02 PM   #47
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI View Post
If mines or holds were added in this game, I would most likely quit. I'm dead serious. Don't ruin FFR like that.
Don't do it bro'. For the sake of DossarLX ODI. Just don't do it.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:03 PM   #48
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

Adding marvellous as a visual and statistical option seems to be very popular. As it stands with the poll, marvellous will not count for any form of points.
However, an option is it could be used for: Sorting, as Halo said; Very high level tourns; and possibly tokens. As is, it would be entirely optional and hidden by default.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:26 PM   #49
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

ACC: Marv/Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo
For some people, I can see how "AAAing is just too easy", and adding a Marvelous timing on the exact frame would add more challenge, thus more replayability.

DIFF: Multiple difficulties per song
Hey, if ThirdStyle did it, and it was done with widget files, why not with BlackWebb?

MULT: 2 Player Multiplayer Only
I don't want this turning into SMO.

No to mines or holds. Mines are simulated well enough with the boo mechanic (indeed, I think hurting one's score AND life for hitting a boo is something that sets FFR apart), and holds have been tried before with the R2 engine...you had to hold all of it.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

In my opinion, I think that having the marvelous timming with the current state of the engine is just dumb. It is kind of hard enough to play with the laggy fps as it is.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:45 PM   #51
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

With decent computer specs, FFR's older engines run fine on a standalone player. This one will more than likely run a lot better.
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:35 PM   #52
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

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Originally Posted by qqwref View Post
Accuracy: Keep current system. Other games have done marvelous (KBO and SM specifically) and I find that it just creates more of a disconnect between the typical player and the topmost players. You're struggling to FC some VC or something, and you look and see that AlexDest has a quad on it. I think adding Marvelous to the scoring would be a bad idea, but I could see a use for it if it's just displayed for statistics' sake.

Difficulty: Single difficulty per song, because the TS style of forced multiple charts means that charts tend to be more rushed. But I do think we should be less strict towards the option of multiple charts for a song, especially if they are all good.

Arrows: 4 arrows only. I'm sure Solo is fun but it seems to, again, just create a bigger disconnect between the typical player and the crazy insane players - it takes a lot more work to read a dense 6key pattern than a dense 4key pattern, and I don't think a lot of people will bother to get to that skill level.

Multiplayer: More than 2, for sure Make it like SMO, perhaps, so it shows scores but doesn't show everyone playing at once, for lag purposes.

Mines and holds: No and no. Mines just add visual complexity to a file, making it harder to read, and this is one problem I have with TS and their xmod stuff (it's fake difficulty). Also, we already have a boo system, which is like having mines everywhere. And holds are just annoying too, because I find that most people nowadays overuse them with miniholds and holdstream patterns, and end up just making the song harder to read/hit for no real reason. Plus, KBO, TS, and SM already have holds - I'd rather keep FFR unique.
This is basically everything I wanted to say for the most part. 100% agree with this.
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:38 PM   #53
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

For mines, just because SM has some mines on levels. It can be deactivated through the menu though. As for holds, FFR2 and SM have this. It makes the song more challenging, and trickier. The difficulties probably won't stay at 13 at max with holds.
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:59 PM   #54
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

ACC: Marv/Perf/Good/Avg/Miss/Boo
This would give players more of a reason to focus on accuracy, rather than just the FC.

DIFF: Multiple Difficulty per Song (On one menu)
I'm agreeing with Bmah on this selection, it would make AAA'ing every song quite boring.

ARR: 4 or 6 arrows on some songs
There is no reason there shouldn't be an option to increase the difficulty, and have the option to add more keys.

MULT: 2 or MORE Player Multiplayer
Having more competition is just more fun, it would surely boost the Multiplayer from noticing the majority of the players have voted this.
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:02 PM   #55
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

cuz holds would be fun
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:04 PM   #56
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

I want mines and holds to make it more fun, or make the chart fit more.
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:23 PM   #57
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

I put my opinions down, but I'm only going to bring up mines and holds. Mines are for songs you want to prevent people for mashing. However, I understand that if every masters only song had mines, it'd be stupid. I sugest making mines only for token songs.

For freeze, the reason I believe there should be freeze is because it 'fits' the song more accurately, making subtle notes more noticeable, and would open up more songs to being stepped in a new and interesting way.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:02 PM   #58
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaKIWI View Post
I think it would be a great idea to have holds and mines as an optional mod.
^

Also, I like Marvelouses, and different difficulties.
Holds are stupid. But I like them ONLY IN STEPMANIA.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:33 PM   #59
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

I like how some people in here are assuming that BW is going to replace ffr and change all previous files to suit it.
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:48 PM   #60
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Default Re: BlackWebb Wishlist [Vote Now!]

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I like how some people in here are assuming that BW is going to replace ffr and change all previous files to suit it.
Wait this isn't the big 'convert as many FFR files to a new engine as possible so they're not frame quantized weird things' project?
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