Music - Page 2

**Cavernio** · 10-11-2006, 09:28 PM

There's alotta things that go into why people like music. If you've ever studied music theory, you'd know some of them. And before everyone rips me apart for this, saying "but I like music which doesn't do that", I'm not saying this is an end all and be all of what people like to hear. I think the best way to describe it is to describe what makes music different from other sounds.

First: beat. People like beats. The beat doesn't have to be thumped, it can be implied with a regular tempo and emphasis of .
Second: melody. What makes something a melody instead of random notes? Well, it follows the mode of the song. I guess a mode is best described as a set of notes or frequencies. Not all scales/modes have all the possible notes in them. You probably know of major and minor, but other ones exist like, umm, the one that you think about with traditional chinese music. When you stick to notes in your scale, you're more likely to get something that sounds pleasant. There's also other things involved, like outlining chords from the scales, following patterns, don't jump around too much, repetition etc.
3 chords. Your melody writing should already be implying chords anyways, so this really isn't its own thing. When looking at 2 or more notes/frequencies, there's consonance and dissonance. 3rd are consonant, so are 5ths. If you've got an instrument, play c and b. They don't sound good together. (dissonance) Now play c and g. They sound good. (consonance) There's actually physics behind this, and if you take the ratio of the frequencies (in hertz) of the 2 notes, one's with, umm, 'easy' fractions (1/2, or 3/4) sound good. Ones with ugly fractions, don't.
You also have to pay attention to WHERE the emphasis of a melody belongs. You want to place chord notes on the stronger emphasis of the beat.
4. timbre: This is one I don't know a whole lot about, and I really don't think its been looked at much in terms of classic music theory either. This is essentially the quality of the sound. Why a piano doesn't sound like an electric guitar, even if they're playing the same note. Some timbres have more 'color' to them. The more color, the closer to white noise (ie: no 1 note or frequency in it) it is.
Now, pretending you've done all that, you're going to have a pretty boring song if you never do syncopation (play around with the regular beat), always have chord notes in your melody, always have the right chord underlying the melody. What's interesting is that what is often found to be the most satisfying in a piece of music is when the 'rules' are broken, but then there's a resolution. Like when there's an ugly chord which magically turns into a nice one, by only moving 1 note of it down a semi-tone.
Definitely the fact that you even HEAR something more often makes that music that much more enjoyable, as a general rule.

Personally, (no outside knowledge about this), I think there's a drive to listen to something more and more noise-like and less music-like the more music we listen to. Also, catchy music is probably more music-like.

YungYung · 10-11-2006, 11:10 PM

Syncopation and the other things that you listed don't come into play when the vast majority of people are considering wether a song is 'good'. It's wether it appeals to them. A longer repetitive psytrance beat might appeal to some people. while seem completely boring to others.

You don't need to know anything about music to be able to label something as 'good music'. It's about personal preference.

**Moogy** · 10-12-2006, 02:05 AM

Everything except VGM and anime music pretty much sucks. Bad.

TK_Bakonfat69 · 10-12-2006, 04:44 AM

Cavernio, I see where you're coming from with what you stated, but I would have to disagree. I agree much more with what YungYung is saying. I really don't believe that music should be judge on its quality by (lack of a better word) "testing" it with all the different cattegories of beat and such. For example, my chemistry teachers was listening to banjo music when I started laughing a little at it. He said, "Don't laugh at it, the banjo is really hard to play, you should appreciate it." I was thinking, "It is hard for me to lick my ass, but if I could do that, would anyone appreciate it?" (well, some people would, but not the vast majority). Music is like art, or should I say, it IS art. The same goes for art as it does with music (in my opinion). I really don't think it should be judged based on many different categories, it all depends on what sound you like.

Maybe the type of sound people like is one that fits into all those categories, though. Hard to say.

**Cavernio** · 10-12-2006, 08:34 AM

Umm, I wasn't making categories, first thing. I was trying to break down what 'music' as opposed to 'noise' is. I was pointing out that what people generally enjoy in music has been studied, and that there have been 'rules' which come up out of it. These rules are doubtlessly so because we are human and because our perception of sound is going to be kept the same no matter what. We only perceive and hear what we're hard-wired to hear. I strongly believe that these rules, 'discovered' purely in the study OF music, will be/are being found congruent with the way our brain is set up.
I never said that syncopation or chord progession or anything else like that is necessary in order to have good music. But the basic list of things I made up there are all good reasons explanaing why, for example, when we hear a car coming down the road, we don't think of that sound as 'music'. (well, most of us don't.) Complexity doesn't equal better either. Just more complex.

I also never said or meant to imply that you need to 'know' anything about music to like it either.
The question was asked why we like music. You guys aren't giving any reasons as to why. You're just stating that you DO like it, and that different people like different things, and then someone essentially said that art cannot have science behind it.

This link is something a friend of mine came up with, describing the process of development of liking music.
http://smilingpolitely.org/index.php...ste_sensations
(I hope I'm not kicking myself later for linking this)

duhh_ · 10-12-2006, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YungYung

I listen to music that 99.99999999999% of the userbase has never heard of before, besides maybe linus.

I listen to mainstream hong kong music, which mostly ranges from being pop, some rock, and some hiphop.

rofl shoot me

lol, a few of my friends try to get me to listen to that. some are sound actually quite good even tho i have no idea wtf they are saying.

mead1 · 10-12-2006, 07:38 PM

IDM

BECAUSE IT IS INTELLIGENT

plasmix · 10-12-2006, 07:40 PM

lol

I would say rock.

bobbycat73 · 10-13-2006, 02:14 PM

there is no best genre or best artist, not every band in a 'genre' is the exact same

i've been listening to a lot of EBM/electro/industrial lately though

**Moogy** · 10-13-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mead1

IDM

BECAUSE IT IS INTELLIGENT

not as intelligent as speedcore

10-11-2006, 09:28 PM	#21
Cavernio sunshine and rainbows Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 41 Posts: 1,987	Re: Music There's alotta things that go into why people like music. If you've ever studied music theory, you'd know some of them. And before everyone rips me apart for this, saying "but I like music which doesn't do that", I'm not saying this is an end all and be all of what people like to hear. I think the best way to describe it is to describe what makes music different from other sounds. First: beat. People like beats. The beat doesn't have to be thumped, it can be implied with a regular tempo and emphasis of . Second: melody. What makes something a melody instead of random notes? Well, it follows the mode of the song. I guess a mode is best described as a set of notes or frequencies. Not all scales/modes have all the possible notes in them. You probably know of major and minor, but other ones exist like, umm, the one that you think about with traditional chinese music. When you stick to notes in your scale, you're more likely to get something that sounds pleasant. There's also other things involved, like outlining chords from the scales, following patterns, don't jump around too much, repetition etc. 3 chords. Your melody writing should already be implying chords anyways, so this really isn't its own thing. When looking at 2 or more notes/frequencies, there's consonance and dissonance. 3rd are consonant, so are 5ths. If you've got an instrument, play c and b. They don't sound good together. (dissonance) Now play c and g. They sound good. (consonance) There's actually physics behind this, and if you take the ratio of the frequencies (in hertz) of the 2 notes, one's with, umm, 'easy' fractions (1/2, or 3/4) sound good. Ones with ugly fractions, don't. You also have to pay attention to WHERE the emphasis of a melody belongs. You want to place chord notes on the stronger emphasis of the beat. 4. timbre: This is one I don't know a whole lot about, and I really don't think its been looked at much in terms of classic music theory either. This is essentially the quality of the sound. Why a piano doesn't sound like an electric guitar, even if they're playing the same note. Some timbres have more 'color' to them. The more color, the closer to white noise (ie: no 1 note or frequency in it) it is. Now, pretending you've done all that, you're going to have a pretty boring song if you never do syncopation (play around with the regular beat), always have chord notes in your melody, always have the right chord underlying the melody. What's interesting is that what is often found to be the most satisfying in a piece of music is when the 'rules' are broken, but then there's a resolution. Like when there's an ugly chord which magically turns into a nice one, by only moving 1 note of it down a semi-tone. Definitely the fact that you even HEAR something more often makes that music that much more enjoyable, as a general rule. Personally, (no outside knowledge about this), I think there's a drive to listen to something more and more noise-like and less music-like the more music we listen to. Also, catchy music is probably more music-like. Last edited by Cavernio; 10-11-2006 at 09:34 PM..

10-11-2006, 11:10 PM	#22
YungYung FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hi Linus Age: 33 Posts: 810	Re: Music Syncopation and the other things that you listed don't come into play when the vast majority of people are considering wether a song is 'good'. It's wether it appeals to them. A longer repetitive psytrance beat might appeal to some people. while seem completely boring to others. You don't need to know anything about music to be able to label something as 'good music'. It's about personal preference. __________________ clairmai lol hvam lol

10-12-2006, 02:05 AM	#23
Moogy 嗚呼 Join Date: Aug 2003 Age: 34 Posts: 10,303	Re: Music Everything except VGM and anime music pretty much sucks. Bad. __________________ Plz visit my blog ^^^ vintage signature from like 2006 preserved

10-12-2006, 04:44 AM	#24
TK_Bakonfat69 FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany / Gilroy, California Posts: 42	Re: Music Cavernio, I see where you're coming from with what you stated, but I would have to disagree. I agree much more with what YungYung is saying. I really don't believe that music should be judge on its quality by (lack of a better word) "testing" it with all the different cattegories of beat and such. For example, my chemistry teachers was listening to banjo music when I started laughing a little at it. He said, "Don't laugh at it, the banjo is really hard to play, you should appreciate it." I was thinking, "It is hard for me to lick my ass, but if I could do that, would anyone appreciate it?" (well, some people would, but not the vast majority). Music is like art, or should I say, it IS art. The same goes for art as it does with music (in my opinion). I really don't think it should be judged based on many different categories, it all depends on what sound you like. Maybe the type of sound people like is one that fits into all those categories, though. Hard to say. __________________

10-12-2006, 08:34 AM	#25
Cavernio sunshine and rainbows Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 41 Posts: 1,987	Re: Music Umm, I wasn't making categories, first thing. I was trying to break down what 'music' as opposed to 'noise' is. I was pointing out that what people generally enjoy in music has been studied, and that there have been 'rules' which come up out of it. These rules are doubtlessly so because we are human and because our perception of sound is going to be kept the same no matter what. We only perceive and hear what we're hard-wired to hear. I strongly believe that these rules, 'discovered' purely in the study OF music, will be/are being found congruent with the way our brain is set up. I never said that syncopation or chord progession or anything else like that is necessary in order to have good music. But the basic list of things I made up there are all good reasons explanaing why, for example, when we hear a car coming down the road, we don't think of that sound as 'music'. (well, most of us don't.) Complexity doesn't equal better either. Just more complex. I also never said or meant to imply that you need to 'know' anything about music to like it either. The question was asked why we like music. You guys aren't giving any reasons as to why. You're just stating that you DO like it, and that different people like different things, and then someone essentially said that art cannot have science behind it. This link is something a friend of mine came up with, describing the process of development of liking music. http://smilingpolitely.org/index.php...ste_sensations (I hope I'm not kicking myself later for linking this)

10-12-2006, 07:38 PM	#27
mead1 Cerebellumberjack Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: On a boat Age: 33 Posts: 3,960	Re: Music IDM BECAUSE IT IS INTELLIGENT

10-12-2006, 07:40 PM	#28
plasmix FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: TX Posts: 3,639	Re: Music lol I would say rock.

10-13-2006, 02:14 PM	#29
bobbycat73 FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Milford, Connecticut Posts: 339	Re: Music there is no best genre or best artist, not every band in a 'genre' is the exact same i've been listening to a lot of EBM/electro/industrial lately though __________________ aids http://mafia.cheats4us.org/index.php?x=241521 <- Hot asian chicks!!

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