Sweeping anti-gay legislation soon to become law in North Carolina

[devonin]

Instead of having a room where 10 women can use the bathroom and another where 10 men can use the bathroom, the could use that same space to easily make say, 15 single-user bathrooms and the problem vanishes.

Go into any even public bathroom in somewhere nice like a higher-end banquet hall or hotel, and the stalls are already fully enclosed rooms, floor to ceiling, with a full door that locks. You know, just like the single-user bathroom you have in your house that you already share with all kinds of people. Instead of a big long room with a bank of stalls along one side, replace the room with a hallway, and fully enclose the stalls. Problem solved.

I don't know what everybody is so concerned about by letting people use the bathroom of the gender they identify with.

1/ It's already illegal to harass, attack, or molest anybody in any bathroom at any time
2/ Where do you think trans people have been using the bathroom all this time?
3/ If you're suddenly worried about the little girls, thanks for worrying about the little boys at any point before now
4/ I've used public bathrooms for like, nearly 30 years and I don't think I've ever seen the genitals of another person in a public bathroom. You just don't look? How is this difficult?

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by devonin

4/ I've used public bathrooms for like, nearly 30 years and I don't think I've ever seen the genitals of another person in a public bathroom. You just don't look? How is this difficult?

Canada must have some nice bathrooms that aren't totally open.


I pretty much agree with what you are saying, but the cost of doing this for alot of business would be an issue that would have to be resolved first before we try and passed laws that it needs to confirm to new standards. I'm not against moving into that direction though.

[choof]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Canada must have some nice bathrooms that aren't totally open.

nah you've just been dealing with shitty gas station bathrooms for the majority of your life

[massflavour]

Originally Posted by Rojaf

huffingtonpost

into the trash it goes

[Rojaf]

sorry, but i'm not going to relink every study from that article, not gonna happen.

if somehow a study is invalidated by being linked on huffington post that is news to me.

[MixMasterLar]

Huffinton Post kind of goes back and forth with how accurate it is from what I can tell.

[Rojaf]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Huffinton Post kind of goes back and forth with how accurate it is from what I can tell.

not even the point man. not even close to the point.

korny asked for scientific studies, i posted an article that had links to several studies.

why is the site that the studies were linked on even relevant? not even i care which site does the linking, all that matters is the content of the studies linked to.

[choof]

Originally Posted by massflavour

into the trash it goes

you can hover over links in the "trash" fojar linked and see what they hotlink to

Mod Edit: Deep breath Choof, no need to be so hostile

[massflavour]

Originally Posted by choof

i am extremely triggered because you think huffpost is garbage

i didn't see this post before the mod edit but i bet it was pretty funny

the first study "debunked" by huffpost:

(quote placed in article from study (Dhenje et al.)):

For the purpose of evaluating whether sex reassignment is an effective treatment for gender dysphoria, it is reasonable to compare reported gender dysphoria pre and post treatment. Such studies have been conducted either prospectively or retrospectively, and suggest that sex reassignment of transsexual persons improves quality of life and gender dysphoria.

concluding quote from study (Dhenje et al.):

Conclusion
This study found substantially higher rates of overall mortality, death from cardiovascular disease and suicide, suicide attempts, and psychiatric hospitalisations in sex-reassigned transsexual individuals compared to a healthy control population. This highlights that post surgical transsexuals are a risk group that need long-term psychiatric and somatic follow-up. Even though surgery and hormonal therapy alleviates gender dysphoria, it is apparently not sufficient to remedy the high rates of morbidity and mortality found among transsexual persons. Improved care for the transsexual group after the sex reassignment should therefore be considered.

so instead of including this concluding quote to fully (and effectively) represent the study being criticized, the point which goes against the position of the article is left out and the criticized study is immediately contrasted with a mined point from another study, which was carefully picked to fully re-affirm the position of the article.

tl;dr: they put two entirely contradictory pieces of literature next to each other and deliberately misrepresented one to re-affirm the other one.

[korny]

Originally Posted by choof

Mod Edit: Deep breath Choof, no need to be so hostile

how about we let people speak their minds freely that would be pretty cool thx

[Rojaf]

Originally Posted by massflavour

i didn't see this post before the mod edit but i bet it was pretty funny

the first study "debunked" by huffpost:

(quote placed in article from study (Dhenje et al.)):



concluding quote from study (Dhenje et al.):


so instead of including this concluding quote to fully (and effectively) represent the study being criticized, the point which goes against the position of the article is left out and the criticized study is immediately contrasted with a mined point from another study, which was carefully picked to fully re-affirm the position of the article.

tl;dr: they put two entirely contradictory pieces of literature next to each other and deliberately misrepresented one to re-affirm the other one.

rates higher than a control can still be lower than pre treatment.

not even a little bit contradictory.

[tosh]

Originally Posted by massflavour

tl;dr: they put two entirely contradictory pieces of literature next to each other and deliberately misrepresented one to re-affirm the other one.

As Fojar said: they're not contradictory. Let's just use numerical examples to illustrate why they don't contradict each other.

Let's assume for a second that pre-op trans people have a mortality rate of 20% (pulling this number out of my ass). Let's also assume the US population as a whole has a mortality rate of 5%. If post-op trans people have a mortality rate of 13%, then it shows an improvement compared to the pre-op group but it's still a higher mortality rate than the US population as a whole.

Also, a small bit in the second statement you quoted illustrates this.

Even though surgery and hormonal therapy alleviates gender dysphoria, it is apparently not sufficient to remedy the high rates of morbidity and mortality found among transsexual persons. Improved care for the transsexual group after the sex reassignment should therefore be considered.

So what this is saying is that reassignment surgery greatly reduces the gender dysphoria that a person feels. Therefore, the reassignment surgery did what it was meant to. However, being post-op does not help with some other areas in their life that their transition has affected.

Examples of some things that can affect someone even after reassignment surgery include, but are not limited to, breaking up with a spouse/significant other as a result of being trans, family not approving of the transition, losing a job, etc. Hence the study says that 'improved care...should therefore be considered'. Pretty much 'improved care' is synonymous with counseling to help trans people handle issues that they may not have control over.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by korny

how about we let people speak their minds freely that would be pretty cool thx

They can speak their minds as freely as they want within the rules of this forum.

[choof]

all i did was call him a twatcannon

[devonin]

Well at least use formal english and say something like "If one were a twatcannon" without directing it at him :P

[Rojaf]

yeah plus it was super warranted.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by Rojaf

yeah plus it was super warranted.

I know I know, it's some bullshit when you think somebody is being a twatcannon and The Man prevents you from calling them a twatcannon.

[Soundwave-]

Originally Posted by choof

all i did was call him a twatcannon

Originally Posted by devonin

Well at least use formal english and say something like "If one were a twatcannon" without directing it at him :P

I have no comment on any of this thread, but this is good.