TWG CLXV - The Wine In Front Of Me - Game Thread

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Litodude

??

Keeping me alive is like a TWG tradition because they know I never make wagons happen.

[Hakulyte]

So, whoever is not me/Sunfan/Charu/Litodude, please say hello.

I'm tired of posting.

[Hakulyte]

FreezinIce/Wineandbread/YoshL/roundbox.

Please take the stage, we need someone else than me saying things here.

I'm out of things to say.

[Litodude]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Ah.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...postcount=3400

[Litodude]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Keeping me alive is like a TWG tradition because they know I never make wagons happen.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz...240SmlSc1g0eDg

[roundbox]

Originally Posted by Litodude

idk why haku didn't die last night outside of being pocketed or being a wolf

didn't you say shado was killed because he was onto somebody
I think this could be a reason since I think you're really the only one who thinks haku is a pr
he also causes discord for plenty of town people who spar with him, so that's a potential reason to keep him around. as Charu pointed out, he's only going to vote for certain people

[Hakulyte]

Make a Haku wagon here and I will no longer use this excuse ever again.

If you don't I will continue to do so.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I don't want to quote your posts in 20 segments and paint it with my world.

I don't think we need to go there.

It's just that it's not cutting it for me anymore.

I appreciate your attempt tho.

I am genuinely sad to hear this for some reason

[Wineandbread]

Okay I'm almost caught up
Also multiquoting over multiple pages and leaving and closing the tab and coming back is a bad idea

Originally Posted by Litodude

sigh.
listen, i'm gonna say one last thing to u before this game is over because i don't think u realize how ridiculous it sounds from your perspective that you're still on my ass. i think you've made enough chaos caused by the early-game and continuing to do so has been a disservice to us, because you've been a guaranteed wagon on /probably/ the wrong players. that's why no one has bothered to stop you, that's why raeko still wants to win your favor. with that said,

i think you're the IC. i guessed it d0 when i did my wall analysis on u when you mentioned 'yoshl looks like he's trying to control the game.' that doesn't make sense, and i even said that i think YOU'RE the only other person that wants to 'control' the game for no abritrary reason, other than you have an ace up your sleeve.

you wanted to draw in votes because you think if wolves vote for you, you can flip that and do analysis on 'why does $player want me dead?'

i tried hinting to you d1 that 'inno should use their power sooner rather than later in the day phase before a cluster fuck of vote wagons occur.' which still happened, because you didn't pick up on that because i tried to make it as subtle as fuck.

even if i'm right, i still don't trust your opinion because you've been so entirely tunneled on me, suns, charu, and...i don't remember because is tarted to ignore you.


now, i might be wrong. i could be COMPLETELY off base. but i honestly believe that you're the inno because freezin who was my other inno pick, is currently bussing raeko.

i don't care if you call this PR hunting, because honestly, there's only 1 PR left, and it's negligible at this stage of the game to mislynch and have 'alliances' anyway. i tried to make it early game...didn't happen. i got railed by freezin for some fucking reason.

i haven't done the math but i think we're one death away from wolf victory. gj recsinding your vote before someone else voted. that was a legit GOOD PLAY.

so that's all i'm gonna say to you now and probably until never again and to stop wasting my fucking time

I'm not really sure why you're bothering with this Haku PR stuff because with regard to the rest of the people here they're not going to help pressure him (with the exception of yoshl I guess) to reveal even IF he is the IC and IF the IC is in the game. Just drop it and focus on somebody else.

Originally Posted by thesunfan

our interactions on d0 NEVER
and I mean NEVER
happen if we are both wolves

What if you're W/T, or T/T?

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I self-meta a lot regardless

no johns pls

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Sunfan/Litodude/Charu are all best vote.

No discrimination here.

Oh look we're back to square one. Can you at least, try to consider other people? If it helps, do what I'm doing and disregard the team for now and just focus on one person. We really need a correct lynch today and aside from maybe sunfan, I'm not sure those people are it.

Originally Posted by Charu

Except for Haku, no one else was reading him as inherently top wolf tier. He was mostly town read.

...Then why shadow over lito...?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I felt shado was also considered mostly town? But I didn't really read much outside of eod at d0 so maybe that's not the case?

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Actually, I think Shado only got NK'd because wolves thought he was the last PR.

Did you beleive Shado was a PR before his flip?

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

ignoring someone because theyre dogging you constantly is weak

actually putting them on ignore forumwise because theyre dogging you is even weaker

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

the vote table thing

Magenta is flipped towns

Blue is myself

freezin pr confirmed kappa

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I think the simple plans are usually the best ones for wolves because they're easier to coordinate and very easy to make the others discard.

e.g: There's no way wolves would all wagon the same player because it's too simple.

If you think it's something more complicated, you're going to have to find a reason as to why it has to be more complicated.

I'm open for exploring possibilities, but I certainly don't feel confident at all with that.

See I have a similar thinking that wolves don't always target the same person. But I feel like at some point, this is going to happen and we're gonna get fucked for it.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I'm very confident about choof being town because I mind melded with him in the D1 entrance part.

Roundbox/YoshL are more null than scummy imo because I have trouble to pair them in a way that makes sense based on overall interactions.

Actually, I tend to believe that YoshL was fairly in harmony with Gradiant and now that I know that Gradiant was town, I'm likely to believe that he's town as well.

I tend to believe that if you're a wolf here, you wouldn't have posted so much in a fast manner.

I feel like if you posted too fast in D0 to be able to filter yourself. (if you're a wolf)

I also think that you're coming from a genuine place overall and I liked your game. (we're both pretty annoying tho, we should learn some courtesy lol)

As with your wolf reads, I don't think it's a good idea to hold onto your town reads too much either. Someone can play exceptionally for a day and complete dogshit the next. If you don't mind me asking how did we mindmeld d0?
(I still have yoshl scumlean fwiw, based on the behavior that I've been around for)

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Voted on a town wagon count (not including sunfan as town for this):

YoshL - 7/7 times

Lito - 6/7 times

Mello - 0/5 times

Roundbox - 3/5 times

Charu - 5/6 times

What are you implying with this post?

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

...
I'm not hyped at all for this game and I've been quite pessimistic, but it's not even game solving related. It's because I don't know what to do with town here. Everyone seems to be playing the independant game and I only see Raeko/FreezinIce who cares a little for what I'm doing.

...

So yeah, that's why I'm stuck where I am.

If I'm wrong well, town AND wolves are doing a good job at looking realistic.

I feel you had a similar problem the previous game. All I can really say is don't get too frustrated if people aren't listening to your ideas. As long as you're alive (and since you're so "unkillable" or whatever) one of two things will happen: people will lend you credibility, or think you're a wolf cause you haven't died.

Originally Posted by Charu

Also, every single town player should be reading mellon as like 95% scum, unless you're misunderstanding the situation again.

Haku... freezin...

I must be one of those players. mellon isn't a hard town read for me but she's at least null+ in my book

Other notes:

I liked Charu trying to partner, looking at every angle. Some of it is lacking justification though. I'd like to see you expand on those if you have a chance (it's a large ordeal though, I know you're just spitballing kind of)

Haku still being stubborn as fuck. I really don't want to go back to see what he means that sunfan/charu/lito "solved" each other but I'll do it tmrw or something.

roundbox's analysis on #3484: interesting approach to gauging wolves. I'm a little confused why you ended up doing this ++- jargon when you could have just put + instead, kinda threw me off. This post is also kind of weird because you are basically taking Shado's posts as always correct as town, when town can have faulty analysis. You're playing a game of telephone with basically indirect reads off of what Shado had to say and I don't really like that.

@lito/haku: pls, is only gaem. Also regarding the whole trying to get Haku to flip IC or whatever, I'd just stop. Cause it's very unlikely to happen. In fact, I can entirely see a world where Haku just lets the lynch happen out of frustration even if he's town.

So currently I'm at:

(soft)town: Charu, lito,
null+: mellon, freezin, haku
null-: sunfan, roundbox
scum: yoshl

[Litodude]

Originally Posted by roundbox

didn't you say shado was killed because he was onto somebody
I think this could be a reason since I think you're really the only one who thinks haku is a pr
he also causes discord for plenty of town people who spar with him, so that's a potential reason to keep him around. as Charu pointed out, he's only going to vote for certain people

do an iso on my posts and shado's i swapped u for haku and it fits

[YoshL]

all i got from the last bunch of pages was about 40 unshown ignored posts and freezinice trying to make gross generalizations about shit

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Did you already forget about hakus dank vt hard claim sunfan?

Tak tsk expected you to keep track of that sort of stuff!

I have and that's why I think its a waste of time and he either needs to blow my mind and put it to rest or say that there is no point and put it to rest

Haku, PR cover is good up to a point. I think your PR cover is pretty much blown since the first 10 pages. Since Lito does not see this, and considering some people are basing their worlds around you as scum, it would help people a lot if you were to reveal if you somehow are the innocent child.

It greatly outweighs the benefit of you being alive tomorrow, and even if you do live to tomorrow after revealing, that's REALLY GOOD INFO. A random unconfirmed dying over the last confirmed role town has is very valuable information, again, more valuable than an innocent child, which is literally the weakest standard role in mafia that doesn't harm town (like a town roleblocker does)

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

So, YoshL is right. I should go on EpicMafia or some other site.

The meta on me here is just cruelly unfair.

I can post or solve stuff and I will simply never get a wagon going.

It's just how TWG is here for Haku.

A very sad experience indeed.

Very sad indeed
I think reputation is put on too high a pedestal in general on these forums. I try to avoid meta reading as much as possible but sometimes I can't help it.

It seems so exaggerated for a lot of people though. mellon and dbp come to mind.

[Litodude]

suns

gonna have to explain that shit cuz idk wtf u are on about

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I have and that's why I think its a waste of time and he either needs to blow my mind and put it to rest or say that there is no point and put it to rest

Haku, PR cover is good up to a point. I think your PR cover is pretty much blown since the first 10 pages. Since Lito does not see this, and considering some people are basing their worlds around you as scum, it would help people a lot if you were to reveal if you somehow are the innocent child.

It greatly outweighs the benefit of you being alive tomorrow, and even if you do live to tomorrow after revealing, that's REALLY GOOD INFO. A random unconfirmed dying over the last confirmed role town has is very valuable information, again, more valuable than an innocent child, which is literally the weakest standard role in mafia that doesn't harm town (like a town roleblocker does)

Oh god, you're doing the Lito game too now.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by Litodude

suns

gonna have to explain that shit cuz idk wtf u are on about

what do you want me to explain you have to be more specific

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Talking about the state of the game is a waste of time.

The game will be won or loss when it will be won or loss.

Is that clear?

People only do this because other people aren't always aware of how a game is going. I think it's done to get people off their asses when certain figures aren't really playing or tunneling

That or used by wolves to apply pressure idk

[Litodude]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I have and that's why I think its a waste of time and he either needs to blow my mind and put it to rest or say that there is no point and put it to rest

Haku, PR cover is good up to a point. I think your PR cover is pretty much blown since the first 10 pages. Since Lito does not see this, and considering some people are basing their worlds around you as scum, it would help people a lot if you were to reveal if you somehow are the innocent child.

It greatly outweighs the benefit of you being alive tomorrow, and even if you do live to tomorrow after revealing, that's REALLY GOOD INFO. A random unconfirmed dying over the last confirmed role town has is very valuable information, again, more valuable than an innocent child, which is literally the weakest standard role in mafia that doesn't harm town (like a town roleblocker does)

maybe u missed it but we just got into like 3 pages of argument (at 80 ppp) about how he's an idiot for being a failed jk or an awesome wolf or a shitty vt chaos town

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Oh god, you're doing the Lito game too now.

You are making a mistake here if you are the IC, but that's the last thing I think I'll say about that.

its not rolehunting. I've actively shut people down when they've been talking about roles. Its different here because of the push that you would deny wolves who are pushing on you if you are a confirmable role as well as the info you would give to town

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

Very sad indeed
I think reputation is put on too high a pedestal in general on these forums. I try to avoid meta reading as much as possible but sometimes I can't help it.

It seems so exaggerated for a lot of people though. mellon and dbp come to mind.

It's literally impossible to find one game by me where players were like "let's follow Haku, I think what he said make sense".

It didn't happen once over 2 years.

You can't seriously make an argument about me controlling votes.
You can't seriously make an argument about me doing anything game changing.

I'm literally a spectator every game. It's no surprise that I keep losing and cause my faction to be angry at me. How can you work together if you're always rejected by everyone in terms on actions.

You could say I'm being dramatic here, but objectively speaking, I'm really at a flat 0 on being the reason why a wagon happened.

It's causing me to lose confidence in myself and games always ends in a very sad manner when I'm around.

This game I'm trying to do the opposite, but look at what's happening. The entire meta of this game is centered about discrediting me, placing me on ignore and tell me that I'm not playing well.

Like, what do you want me to even do in these conditions?