Old 10-26-2012, 08:36 AM   #1061
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What I've read is that it's a good idea to go past parallel because you work out both the hamstrings and quads at the same time. Otherwise, if you only develop the quads, muscle imbalance issues may cause knee problems later (mainly if you use heavier weight).

Then again, I don't claim to know much about this, and I see no reason why one couldn't just do parallel squats and then work out the hamstrings with something else (in my case, stiff-legged deadlifts would probably help pick up the slack).

I'm coming real close to canceling my gym membership and just sticking with my in-house gym, but I need to make a final case for squats either way. If I can do them, I want to start doing them. But if I absolutely cannot get the form down properly, I'm just wasting money.

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Old 10-26-2012, 08:40 AM   #1062
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So I was practicing squats yesterday for half an hour. Today my legs feel like jelly and I have to keep climing up and down stairs at work. Ghey
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:45 AM   #1063
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Even up the stairs?

For me, going *down* stairs was absolute hell, lol. Even slight downward-sloping creases in concrete were enough to make my knees buckle hardcore.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:05 AM   #1064
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Nothing I'm going to say to you is going to change your mind. Anything that you want badly enough, you'll accomplish: the question is, how badly do you want to do it? This takes years dude, it's not going to be a one day thing. You have to practice your ass off, literally, to get anywhere in life, and this is no different. It sounds to me like you're making excuses. "Oh, I can't do squats, so I guess I dont have to go to this gym!" You start at the bottom and you move weight until you reach the top, there is nobody out there that starts with perfect form.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:24 AM   #1065
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Even up the stairs?

For me, going *down* stairs was absolute hell, lol. Even slight downward-sloping creases in concrete were enough to make my knees buckle hardcore.
yeah going either up or down is killing me
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:23 AM   #1066
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he says he has no muscle, he shouldn't be using at weight with his squats. he is 220 pounds. thats plenty.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:40 AM   #1067
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You have to practice your ass off, literally, to get anywhere in life, and this is no different.
^ Good advice right there.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:04 PM   #1068
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Nothing I'm going to say to you is going to change your mind. Anything that you want badly enough, you'll accomplish: the question is, how badly do you want to do it? This takes years dude, it's not going to be a one day thing. You have to practice your ass off, literally, to get anywhere in life, and this is no different. It sounds to me like you're making excuses. "Oh, I can't do squats, so I guess I dont have to go to this gym!" You start at the bottom and you move weight until you reach the top, there is nobody out there that starts with perfect form.
It's not that I am unwilling to change my mind.

My concern is that I'm not physically equipped to handle squats yet. To use an analogy, it would be like a newbie looking at a billion videos on how to ride a bike or how to whistle. "Just keep your balance centered, and pedal!" "Just put your lips together, and blow!" To me, squats are like that. "Sit back more" doesn't mean anything to me because my attempts to sit back fail. I don't know how to "pretend you're sitting down on a chair that isn't there," because if I sit down on a chair that isn't there, I'm going to be falling onto my ass.

As a result, I end up with extremely sore knees and an inability to squat to parallel because I am pretty sure I'm doing it all wrong. That's where my frustration is. I don't know if it's because I'm literally doing the motion incorrectly and need to make some adjustment I haven't been able to figure out yet, or if it's because I physically can't do the motion due to insufficient muscle mass/strength.

I'm worried that I'm just going to be spinning my wheels, paying for a gym membership where I invest a great deal of energy, time, and money into exercises that I'm only getting some 40% efficiency from. On the other hand, I could stay at my in-apt gym for no additional cost and at least pump out some soreness from machines or dumbbells or something.

I'd *love* to squat, but it's pissing me off that I can't do them worth a damn. The bar, even by itself, is *heavy* to me, and I don't know if that's a sign I should start simpler or whatever. There's this huge range of possible motions I can go through by just "keeping my back straight, bend at the hips, sit back, don't let the knees go past the toes," etc, and so I don't know which way is the right way.

Last edited by Reincarnate; 10-26-2012 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:13 PM   #1069
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To use an analogy, it would be like a newbie looking at a billion videos on how to ride a bike or how to whistle. "Just keep your balance centered, and pedal!" "Just put your lips together, and blow!"
A newbie watching someone AAA a FMO, then making the attempt.

I'm no expert in the gym, but I was told to work on building the muscle in my legs, while still practicing the squatting position. As soon as I felt like my body could support it, I tried squats with low weights. The key to any workout is form, especially when it comes to squats. If you squat wrong, you will mess yourself up, and badly.

A lot of people like to say, "Go big or go home.". You have no idea how many people I've seen break themselves while I was in bootcamp. Don't be that guy; some people can't recover from the damage they caused themselves.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:20 PM   #1070
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That is my concern. If I can't get the form down correctly, I don't want to risk screwing something up.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:23 PM   #1071
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wow this is sad
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:27 PM   #1072
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Just practice the form and you'll be fine. Also, make attempts to do squats with just the bar.

The more you practice these movements, the more prepared your body will be to make them. You have to 'teach' your body how to squat properly. No one is born adjusted to the squat, and if they say they were, they're lying.

You can think of it as similar to training your body to play FFR. In a way, it's not much different.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:33 PM   #1073
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It's not that I am unwilling to change my mind.

My concern is that I'm not physically equipped to handle squats yet. To use an analogy, it would be like a newbie looking at a billion videos on how to ride a bike or how to whistle. "Just keep your balance centered, and pedal!" "Just put your lips together, and blow!" To me, squats are like that. "Sit back more" doesn't mean anything to me because my attempts to sit back fail. I don't know how to "pretend you're sitting down on a chair that isn't there," because if I sit down on a chair that isn't there, I'm going to be falling onto my ass.

As a result, I end up with extremely sore knees and an inability to squat to parallel because I am pretty sure I'm doing it all wrong. That's where my frustration is. I don't know if it's because I'm literally doing the motion incorrectly and need to make some adjustment I haven't been able to figure out yet, or if it's because I physically can't do the motion due to insufficient muscle mass/strength.

I'm worried that I'm just going to be spinning my wheels, paying for a gym membership where I invest a great deal of energy, time, and money into exercises that I'm only getting some 40% efficiency from. On the other hand, I could stay at my in-apt gym for no additional cost and at least pump out some soreness from machines or dumbbells or something.

I'd *love* to squat, but it's pissing me off that I can't do them worth a damn. The bar, even by itself, is *heavy* to me, and I don't know if that's a sign I should start simpler or whatever. There's this huge range of possible motions I can go through by just "keeping my back straight, bend at the hips, sit back, don't let the knees go past the toes," etc, and so I don't know which way is the right way.
I taught my girlfriend how to squat in a day. She started out with air squats, and at first she couldnt go all the way down: But she practiced and kept it up. Yeah, she got sore, yeah, it felt weird, but she didn't give up. If you can't squat with a bar, do air squats. If you can't go all the way down, go as far down as you can and work from there.
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A newbie watching someone AAA a FMO, then making the attempt.

I'm no expert in the gym, but I was told to work on building the muscle in my legs, while still practicing the squatting position. As soon as I felt like my body could support it, I tried squats with low weights. The key to any workout is form, especially when it comes to squats. If you squat wrong, you will mess yourself up, and badly.

A lot of people like to say, "Go big or go home.". You have no idea how many people I've seen break themselves while I was in bootcamp. Don't be that guy; some people can't recover from the damage they caused themselves.
The saying really should be "Go big for your level of training or go home". There's always going to be people who push themselves too hard, but the difference between people who are champions, who achieve the goals they have, and the people who blow out quickly, is that they understand what they're capable of, but they also don't give up and keep pushing their limits.

I'm not saying Reincarnate should go in and start squatting 135 or whatever, or even the bar. I'm saying he shouldn't use "I cant do it right away!" as an excuse to give up. Your knees will hurt because there's muscles you have never used before, but it'll get better.

Sitting in a chair that isnt there? Sit in a regular chair. Or sit against the wall. Wall squats are perfect for teaching you what to do, I think one of the sites I linked shows how to do that.

http://youtu.be/1ZNELZKigUk

http://youtu.be/3XXIIGAG3cc

http://youtu.be/GaR72bpjSa4


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Before you begin squatting, you should make it a goal to focus on quality over quantity. It goes without saying that beginners want results fast. Because of this fact, they usually make one of the biggest mistakes when they start tackling squats, or any exercise; they perform too much volume. Unfortunately, at the end of a grueling set, form is that last thing on their minds. This type of training will leave you sore for days and can lead to bigger injuries over time. Strength coach Jason Ferruggia made a great point about this very issue in a recent article. He stated that for beginners to make faster progress, they should simply focus on good quality repetitions and stick to a lower rep range to perfect their form. Drilling bad form will just engrain that bad pattern which can be very hard to break. A good set and repetition range for beginners might be 3-4 sets of 6-8 repetitions for a typical workout.

Also, learning to squat should be a progression with a top-down training approach. When you squat, only go down as far as you can without losing good form. A qualified trainer or a video you take with your smart phone, will help you to immediately see where your form breaks down. You should be looking to see if you’re losing the upright position of your torso, losing stability across your midsection or upper back, or allowing your hips to tuck under. You should try and stay in a range where all of these bad things don’t happen. Squats to a box is an excellent choice for earning your way to full squats.

I typically teach the squat for my athletes by having them squat to a box with 3/4” mats on it. Week 1 they might have 10 mats on the box. And if they can squat down, barely touch the box, and come back up with good form for multiple sets, then the next squat session, we’ll try 9 mats. Again this testing is repeated until we move to 8 mats….and so on. The goal is to eventually remove all of the mats, and then the box itself until they are performing full range back squats. The key is progression and not allowing them to go outside of their capabilities too fast.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:34 PM   #1074
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Just practice the form and you'll be fine. Also, make attempts to do squats with just the bar.

The more you practice these movements, the more prepared your body will be to make them. You have to 'teach' your body how to squat properly. No one is born adjusted to the squat, and if they say they were, they're lying.

You can think of it as similar to training your body to play FFR. In a way, it's not much different.
I read that babies actually are, but we teach them poor form, haha. They always hip hinge and then go down!
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:42 PM   #1075
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I read that babies actually are, but we teach them poor form, haha. They always hip hinge and then go down!
lol, makes sense. I was leaning more towards having the proper form though.

I use to practice Kuk Sool Won and found out that a lot of movements I made everyday were actually bad for my body. I started to use the advice they were giving me, learning the proper ways to move heavy objects with my body (and things like that), and found myself being able to do more with less pain.

When it comes to working out, I see "monkey see, monkey do" as only getting someone so far. Once someone grasps the concept, they need to work on learning how to do it for themselves. As soon as that's achieved, put on the weights and let the real training begin!
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:42 PM   #1076
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Rubix, seriously, just ****ing squat. Don't worry, don't give a shit, just ****ing squat. Weight on heels, chest out, squat, repeat.

Also good job on all the progress everyone! Really proud. Senip and Reach are ripped.



Some chest and arm growth. Abs are on the way out as I start to eat more. Thanks for all the tips by the way Senip and Reach.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:35 PM   #1077
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What I've read is that it's a good idea to go past parallel because you work out both the hamstrings and quads at the same time. Otherwise, if you only develop the quads, muscle imbalance issues may cause knee problems later (mainly if you use heavier weight).

Then again, I don't claim to know much about this, and I see no reason why one couldn't just do parallel squats and then work out the hamstrings with something else (in my case, stiff-legged deadlifts would probably help pick up the slack).

I'm coming real close to canceling my gym membership and just sticking with my in-house gym, but I need to make a final case for squats either way. If I can do them, I want to start doing them. But if I absolutely cannot get the form down properly, I'm just wasting money.
Yeah, squats aren't the only exercise that work your hamstrings. Add in leg curls or something that hits your hamstrings directly. You'll be perfectly fine.

I never squat past parallel because I don't want to and never will, and my hamstrings are fine. If I'm ever unhappy with them, then I'll add in something else to hit them harder.


I think that's the key point with fitness man. Do whatever you want to do. If you don't like a certain exercise, then don't do it. I know a lot of people here are telling you to essentially suck it up, but listen, you're not going to be a ****ing professional bodybuilder. It's not that serious. You're an average new lifter that is looking to get into better shape, and if you're afraid you're going to hurt yourself doing squats and don't like them because you're having trouble with them, then don't do them. It's really that simple.

I'd much rather see someone like you actually go to the gym regularly and enjoy it than stress about some exercise and end up losing motivation. The squat rack isn't going anywhere. You can come back to it whenever.


For the record, my squat form is far from perfect and I've been doing them for a long time. It's not an easy exercise to perform correctly. 90% of people doing them in the gym are doing them wrong. If you're going to keep doing them, consider it a learning experience and don't expect it to be perfect the first time you're doing it.

This applies to most lifts. It's a learning experience man, you're not going to be perfect. But that doesn't mean that what you're doing is wrong or that it won't help you. The body is hardly that picky. Just stay safe, don't hurt yourself and try to have a good time in the gym.
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:07 PM   #1078
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But there is sepia, which I'm entitled to have, since I stepped sepia back in the day.
"i stepped sepia, therefore i am sepia"

am I allowed to use this excuse if I step sepia as well
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:37 PM   #1079
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"i stepped sepia, therefore i am sepia"

am I allowed to use this excuse if I step sepia as well
Yes. It is a universal rule.
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:43 PM   #1080
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i weight 270 and air squats are good enough for me lmao.

also reach ive never done squats before in my life and in the half hour i went from not being able to get below like 50 degrees to going parallel and a little bit further but after that i either fell or my body was not up to that motion yet.

you could also practice doing wall sits or something so you get the idea of sitting in a chair that isnt there
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