D7 Should be split into two different groups

In my opinion, assuming the upcoming 10th Official Tournament has 7 divisions, there should be another division for the high d7 players to be placed in or d7 should be split into high and low groups based on skill.

I find it unfair that low d7 players have to drill off against the best players of ffr when they have no chance of being in the top 3 ranks unless a miracle occurs like some of the best players wind up not being able to play or don't sign up.

Last tournament's d7 had 29 placed players and the tourney before that had 13. Previous to that, there were only 6 divisions with division 6 having a whopping 59~ players. I believe a new division was created to make players more evenly matched for their division, but think d7 today is growing and this year the number will probably be even bigger making the last division off balance again. Maybe something should change with this to make things more fair for dedicated players who wound up getting stuck in the final division because they are at too high of gameplay skill to be placed in division 6.

Your thoughts?

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Godnick

Your thoughts?

So like, every division... Ever?

To shorten what I have to say: D7 the problem is not as potent as say D3 D4 or D5.

[PaperclipGames]

inb4 ten divisions in 2018

[EzExZeRo7497]

Originally Posted by Godnick

In my opinion, assuming the upcoming 10th Official Tournament has 7 divisions, there should be another division for the high d7 players to be placed in or d7 should be split into high and low groups based on skill.

I find it unfair that low d7 players have to drill off against the best players of ffr when they have no chance of being in the top 3 ranks unless a miracle occurs like some of the best players wind up not being able to play or don't sign up.

Last tournament's d7 had 29 placed players and the tourney before that had 13. Previous to that, there were only 6 divisions with division 6 having a whopping 59~ players. I believe a new division was created to make players more evenly matched for their division, but think d7 today is growing and this year the number will probably be even bigger making the last division off balance again. Maybe something should change with this to make things more fair for dedicated players who wound up getting stuck in the final division because they are at too high of gameplay skill to be placed in division 6.

Your thoughts?

Basically you're asking for a Division 8, I assume? While I understand what you mean regarding the skill gap, there are some points against it.

Regarding the skill gap, you have to remember that there has always been a skill gap between low D7 and high D7 - it's just more obvious now because there are more low D7 players than before. Having an eighth division won't necessarily solve the problem. The very bottom of D7 will have problems winning unless they skill boost quite considerably, the now low D8 will also have problems winning unless they skill boost considerably. At that level, it becomes progressively more difficult to skill boost. Having an additional division will just change the type of people who will have more trouble getting top 8/16 in a tourney.

As for the number of players, I don't think there's as many D7 players as there are D5/D6 at the moment. I felt that the requirements for D7 previous tourney was a little too lax, but that's just me I guess. I can imagine that there are 50-55 D7 players now, but I'd say only 30-40 would participate. There will still be more D5/D6 players - the average FFR player on the forums alone is mid D5 to low D6. FFR players outside the forums would usually fall in the D1-D6 category, so there wouldn't be an off-balance any time soon.

The main reason why I'm against it is because of how little files could be used to measure a skill at that high of a level. Other than 94+ AAAs, the only files that could be used are DP, RATO and vROFL. RATO is basically a luckshot at a very high level, DP even moreso, vROFL is just silly. Maybe if there are more files at that level, we'd be able to measure an 8th division. As it is there just aren't enough files to determine that high of a level. You can argue that alternate engines and rates can be used, but not all players can play optimally on R^3. smartdude, Dynamo and Dossar are just a few who do better on Velocity/Legacy over R^3.

tl;dr 8th division is excessive, not enough files can be used to determine D8, etc.

Hmmm yeah you make a lot of great points Ez. What about there being a high and low d7 that play the same song but are ranked apart from each other?

[Mourningfall]

Or better yet, bracked division based tournaments

edit: to be more concise

Originally Posted by saxrunner05

Setup and Rules: All players begin the the same flight and play the same first round song. Each round, all flights are broken in half and a new songs are picked for each new flight. This process will continue until every player has a definite finishing position. Scoring is NOT cumulative. The exact round structure will be finalized after everyone has played the round one song. For an odd number set, three players will play two rounds cumulatively. Non submitting players are eliminated and receive no prizes.

Just using the pre-existting Division placements as a starting point no sorry that's dumb, non-divisonal though

Everyone gets a chance to compete against others on their level and the results are seemingly more accurate

quote

[TC_Halogen]

FFR has gotten complacent in a divisional placement system, where in other games/rhythm games, there are either two flights/divisions or simply no divisions at all.

If FFR's Multiplayer was more stable for people, you could run a legitimate bracket tournament with seeding and no divisions that way. Unfortunately, you just can't get that lucky.

[MinaciousGrace]

since when has the meaning of tournament shifted from "let us find out who is the best" to "let us find out who is the best within an infinite and arbitrary set of population subsets the ultimate extension of which is to give everyone a trophy and a pat on the back and tell them they are a winner just by playing the game"

[SK8R43]

Its also unfair that any other division has low and high that have to face off as well. But if you have divisions that is what has to be done. I mean low d6 and high d6 are FAR off in skill and nothing is done about that, same with D1, etc
Just let it be, they are in D7 for a reason.

[choof]

Originally Posted by Godnick

Hmmm yeah you make a lot of great points Ez. What about there being a high and low d7 that play the same song but are ranked apart from each other?

"hmm yeah you make great points ez what about there being d7 and d8 tho?"

[MinaciousGrace]

i mean if the reason for which hosting a tournament is that everyone can feel like an inclusive member of this great big family and community and that we are all winners praise be to the lord kumbaya then fine whatever but please do not confuse and/or mix this with the concept of competition or maintain the pretense that the two aren't mutually exclusive

[choof]

because having an official free-for-all tournament is the best way to keep a dying site healthy and alive

divisions keep the circlejerk in one small division

[MinaciousGrace]

well yea but then the point of the tournament is to keep the circle jerks rolling and the site alive

[Untimely Friction]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

FFR has gotten complacent in a divisional placement system, where in other games/rhythm games, there are either two flights/divisions or simply no divisions at all.

If FFR's Multiplayer was more stable for people, you could run a legitimate bracket tournament with seeding and no divisions that way. Unfortunately, you just can't get that lucky.

*Always lurking, always ready*

[choof]

divisions help people gauge how well they're doing and how close to the circlejerk they are

[Dynam0]

can be there a d0 ???

[SK8R43]

I call D0 as my division, you all be jelly

[rushyrulz]

D7 is already reserved for the elite of the elite.

[Mahou]

Good points Eze.

But honestly, why split it anyway? Each division has their high to low players. Plus, people do improve like crazy in tournaments oddly enough.

[~Zeta~]

d7 was large because of lenient placements. Would've been fine with the stricter placement of the tournament before.

[as eze said]