Playing Super Mario World While Taking Mushrooms [91 or 90?]

[AlexDest]

Wondering what everybody else thinks about the difficulty of this chart because I find that its difficulty, 91, is very questionable. Its difficulty is rated the same as Almost There and Magical 8bit Tour, both of which are notorious for their incredibly dense trill patterns; however, all 3 of these charts have one thing in common, difficulty spikes. Now let's compare PSMWWTM with a chart that is very similar... Winter Wind Etude. This chart is rated as a 94 and the elements of both the charts are practically the same: Continuous jumpstream (with the exception of PSMWWTM having handstream), polyrhythms, and spiked pattern difficulty. The only difference is that Winter Wind Etude is much faster and denser in pattern structure.

My personal opinion is that the handstream in this chart is actually not very dense and is quite easy. The spiked patterns don't feel as dense as they seem because I feel they can be learned easily in just a few serious plays.

I'm also wanting to bring up charts that are rated lower in difficulty right below PSMWWTM:

Schmollbluk
Stinger
J'ai Envie de Plaisir X2

These 3 charts are fairly consistent in difficulty but are more inevitable for a player to develop bad habits if they repeatedly play one of them over and over. Stinger and Schmollbluk both have a higher max NPS count (25) than PSMWWTM (23), with J'ai Envie de Plaisir X2 being slightly below (22).

Schmollbluk (released on 3/15/09): 3 AAAs
J'ai Envie de Plaisir X2 (released on 6/29/09): 3 AAAs
Stinger (released on 3/7/13): 3 AAAs
PSMWWTM (released on 3/14/13): 2 AAAs

Since the AAA counts on these 4 charts are almost equal with each other (they really should be equal according to the certain players that have and haven't yet), I feel like PSMWWTM should be a 90.

That's pretty much all I can conclude. I feel my input isn't thoroughly complete but I'd like to know what you guys think.

[bmah]

approved thread

[mi40]

90

stinger is on par for AAAing with this song because of the relentlessness
also it makes sense because both stinger and the shroom song are relentless (which is what makes them 90+, not because they have insane bursts or anything)

[smartdude1212]

If only the leaderboard better reflected a 90 difficulty rating. When rank 3 is still 4-0-0-4 (granted, not every top tier player has put in a few runs), it makes me think that it should still be a 91.

[EzExZeRo7497]

Personally I find Shrooms much easier than all of the 91s. The file's just really easy to get random goods on and is hard to FC, at least for me.

The file itself is very straight-forward, with some 24ths in the beginning, but there are much harder bursts in files such as Stinger (continuous) and Schmollbluk (hidden minijacks). I'd say the midsection is the hardest part to be honest, there's just this one 12th to 16th jumpjack transition that usually kills a lot of FCs. I really don't find the ending as hard as most people think it is, it's mainly all about minijacking (while not splitting) and transitioning.

The leaderboards show that it fits as a 91, with only 2 AAAs and rank 3 being 4-0-0-4, then scores become messy after rank 21, but that's really because it's really hard to FC. Most people I know who are mid to high D6 have mid teens to low 20s with a couple of misses as their best raw score, usually scores better than what they'd usually get on 91s to begin with. You could say that it's because the file is filled with difficulty spikes which is why they have a good score on it, but compared to Magical 8bit Tour and Almost There, which are more difficulty-spike oriented (trills) than Shrooms (which does have a lot of constantly relentless handstream throughout), they should be getting a better score on M8T and AT to begin with. Not to mention the leaderboards look pretty terrible because most top-tier (D7) players haven't really given it a try since it wasn't a D6/D7 tourney file unlike Stinger. I personally think I could probably AAA it on a good run.

The file as a structure feels like an 89 to me to be honest. The leaderboards kinda say otherwise, even raw scoring wise, which is the only reason why I'm iffy if this should be a 91 or lower.

I vote for 89, it feels easier than most 90s and 91s with the exception of Slashmaid for me. 90 if they don't want it to be below 90.

[smartdude1212]

Comparing this and CCCP, eze, I'd say no way is this 89.

[EzExZeRo7497]

You can't really compare CCCP to Shrooms to begin with since CCCP is just fucking aids to score/AAA on while Shrooms is hard throughout, lmao.

But yeah, I guess you're right. Was probably being too biased, Shrooms kinda demands more stamina than Slashmaid to begin with.

[One Winged Angel]

SMW on Shrooms plays like an 89/90 to me personally. That being said, the scoreboard doesn't reflect it whatsoever, and I don't really agree with the statistics being used for comparison. Comparing the AAA count for files at this difficulty level honestly doesn't tell me much...I think that statistic should only be taken into consideration if this had 5/6+ AAAs (Extratone Pirates has four AAAs [all within a week of release] yet is still rightfully a 93, I know it was a D6 tourney file but still). Comparing max NPS is a rather weak metric to go off of as well. For example, Stinger's max NPS probably comes from a short 24th stream leading into a jumptrillable 32nd wall, which is nothing inherently 90+ in nature on its own. Then there are files like Xanthystrauma with a max NPS of 30 from jumptrillable 16ths at 222bpm and files like Revo with a measly max NPS of 20. Patterning and awkwardness during the max NPS sections really need to be taken into account, as I'm sure most people would agree that SMW on Shroom's jumpjackstream ending capped at 23nps is substantially more difficult to PA than Xanthy's 30nps sections and Stinger's 25nps sections.

It really boils down to whether or not you have the stamina to keep up with the constant handstreaming in this file and whether or not you're good at hitting jumpjacks at 180?bpm. If you're fine with both, this file will be a lot easier to score well on compared to both AT and M8BT. But I feel most players can agree that what would dumped in misses or goods throughout SMW on Shroom's entire file duration is comparable to what's dropped in AT or M8BT's one main spike section.

tl;dr - I understand why you made the thread Alex because it doesn't feel like a 91 to me either, but until the scoreboard better reflects this, I'm very reluctant to switch the rating on it. 89 is out of the question imo.

[TC_Halogen]

As a person who struggles with very fast jacks, this song is an absolute fucking nightmare for me.

A personal comparison: I've AAA'd two 93s, but I -rarely- can FC this one due to a nasty transition around 1100 (the ascending 16th jumps) and the ending's split-handed jacks. I've tried isolating the ending literally hundreds of times, and I simply cannot nail it consistently on and off mirror. That obviously holds no merit in a rating discussion though (I'm not stavie, lol <3).

Rob did it hit on the head though:

But I feel most players can agree that what would dumped in misses or goods throughout SMW on Shroom's entire file duration is comparable to what's dropped in AT or M8BT's one main spike section.

This file has so many components that can absolutely break your score, it's ludicrous. There are polyrhythmic bursts in the middle of running jumpstreams right in the beginning that inadvertently force mini-jacks of varying tightness, long bouts of dense jumpstream/handstream, bursts of jacks/chord-smashing at high speeds after large hits in stamina, and the song is also respectably long.

With that being said, the speed of this song certainly makes debatable difficulty; this song could fit as low as an 88/89 because it's more even/constant in terms of rhythm compared to anything else in this difficulty, but the pattern construction is incredibly harsh, making it fitting as a 90/91. On a personal level, I feel like this file should be a 91. On an objective level, I feel like this file would better fit as a 90.

[AlexDest]

I'm not very good at deducing the difficulty of a chart at all and I hope you can understand that, I'm more focused on the big picture than the small details.

I just wish we could just go back to the old rating system of difficulty (1-13) haha, or at least go with what Jae planned to do in the first place (1-20). 1-99 just gets way too dependent on what the player believes it should be based on their skill level.

[TC_Halogen]

It's truly a double-edged sword with the rating system -- more detail but open to more subjectivity, haha.

Both 90/91 seem acceptable to me, so you weren't really far with your rating choices at all in my eyes.