TWG CIII: Postgame

[Silvuh]

TWG CIII: New Players Welcome: Postgame
AKA The Perils of Cheese

WOLVES WIN

Host Comments that you really don't need to read

Right after Day One of the game, I realized ... wait, the wolves have to whittle down the humans one by one each day and night, with wolves possibly getting lynched during the day ... and the possibility of losing a wolf at night if the inspector catches one and vigis or the enforcer guards a target ... The earliest the wolves could win, if they don't lose any members and one human is killed each phase, would be after eight phases, after Day Four. They don't get any special kill like the humans do ... and there's a blue miller, but no red miller, so the wolves get the short end of that stick, too.

So I got disappointed when I felt the game wasn't balanced properly ... and that it ended up being only a fraction of the game I originally intended to play. It seemed like people didn't read the details of the game in the host sign-up thread ... I wanted more input from vets but didn't get any in the thread. I was talking with Xiz and he got Fiction to join in, and I pretty much just took his word for everything, because he has more experience with this than I do. At one point, I had the idea that, instead of silencing (which could be upsetting to people if they were hoping to post and are suddenly not allowed to, even though that was part of the point), I could just make it so where the silencing/paralyzing abilities would make the target's vote not count ... I don't know why I didn't just go with that. But what I had was too complicated or too detail-oriented or something that it just wouldn't be fun. ... Like I was thinking too much about the what-ifs of how the game could go.

What if the Enforcer had seered red to the Inspector as I had originally planned? The chances of the Inspector blowing up the Enforcer would be so low that it wouldn't even matter, apparently? But I took a way both of the green/blues who seered red—took out two handicaps for the humans—and replaced it with a handicap for the wolves. That doesn't sound balanced and all, and I don't know why I didn't see that right away. I should have posted my new game in the host sign-up thread first to get more comments on it there before making a player sign-up thread with a game that is quite different. But people didn't really seem to notice or just didn't care enough to comment on the changes? I don't know.

But people enjoyed the game, so, yay. Many yays for new players not getting a bad first impression~

All the wolves played well and won by not dying. Which was partly due to my mistake of allowing an extension to be granted. When people started to ask for an extension, in the heat of the moment, I forgot that it wasn't how I had originally wrote the rules. So ... whoops?

Player Evaluations

RSD got some heat early but stayed under enough that people didn't doubt his Doctor claim right away.

Riotpolice nearly got lynched, but the extension saved him and he managed to look less red afterward.

Raeko was also got in some trouble, but managed to squeak by with some green-ish responses.

pntballa seemed to be the least wolfy wolf, so, yay? There was more suspicion on the others, so you were like the invisible fourth wolf.

So, the Wolf MVP ... I will give to Riotpolice for having a good first game of leading a wolf team, even though things would have gone differently if the the extension hadn't saved your butt.

In the end, the humans threw suspicion in the wrong direction and ... I don't know what to commend in all that, so I won't be looking into it. Not knowing there were still four wolves left had a bigger effect than I realized it would. Strength in numbers is supposed to be the town's power, haha.

I was impressed when Krauthammer had a list of five suspicious players in post 639 and crossed out the two humans from it by post 785 during Day Two. But then you died. Would you have stood strong behind your suspicions for the rest of the game? But anyway, Krauthammer gets the Human MVP for being the least toxic of the bunch.

Player List

1. Krauthammer, Enforcer, wolved N3
2. YoshL, Citizen, wolved N2
3. DarkManticoreX2, Citizen, wolved N1
4. Brilliant Dynamite Neon, Aide
5. runescapedude1126, Wolf
6. thesunfan, Citizen
7. Xiz, Citizen, lynched D3
8. jwcgator Model Citizen, lynched D4
9. TC_Halogen / Charu Citizen, lynched D3
10. cedolad / dAnceguy117, Citizen, wolved N4
11. DragonIIDX, Citizen, lynched D1
12. Tokzic, Inspector
13. mellonxcollie, Shaman
14. T-Force, Doctor, wolved N5
15. pntballa18, Wolf
16. Riotpolice, Master Wolf

Actions

NIGHT ONE #86

Krauthammer seers thesunfan as Human
Krauthammer guards Xiz
T-Force roleblocks thesunfan
BDN protects himself
pntballa18 attacks DarkManticoreX2

DAY ONE (5-8 to lynch) #434

DragonIIDX (5) - cedolad, thesunfan, YoshL, Xiz, pntballa18
Xiz (5) - Tokzic, runescapedude1126, T-Force, Krauthammer, Riotpolice
Tokzic (1) - mellonxcollie
YoshL (1) - BDN
cedolad (1) - DragonIIDX
Charu (1) - jwcgator
jwcgator (1) - Charu

Tokzic seers Krauthammer as Human
DragonIIDX is lynched

NIGHT TWO #592

mellonxcollie seers thesunfan as a Citizen
Krauthammer seers jwcgator as Human
Krauthammer guards BDN
pntballa18 attacks YoshL
T-Force roleblocks Xiz

DAY TWO (5-7 to lynch) #1144

Charu (7) - mellonxcollie, Tokzic,BDN, Xiz, Riotpolice, T-Force, thesunfan
runescapedude (1) - dAnceguy117
Riotpolice (1) - Krauthammer
Tokzic (1) - pntballa18
jwcgator (1) - Charu

Tokzic seers dAnceguy117 as Human.
Charu is lynched.

NIGHT THREE #1165

T-Force blocks Riotpolice
Krauthammer seers mellonxcollie
Krauthammer guards Tokzic
BDN protects himself
mellonxcollie seers dAnceguy117 as a Citizen
runescapedude1126 attacks Krauthammer

DAY THREE (4-6 to lynch) #1476

Xiz (6) - BDN, jwcgator, Tokzic, pntballa18, thesunfan, mellonxcollie
jwcgator (3) - danceguy117, runescapedude1126, Riotpolice
mellonxcollie (1) - Xiz
runescapedude (1) - T-Force

Tokzic seers thesunfan as Human.
Xiz is lynched.

NIGHT FOUR #1489

pntballa18 attacks dAnceguy117
T-Force heal-blocks Tokzic

DAY FOUR (3-5 to lynch) #1510

jwcgator (5) - BDN, Riotpolice, pntballa18, runescapedude1126, mellonxcollie

NIGHT FIVE #1456

T-Force blocks Rioptolice
mellonxcollie attacks T-Force

Start: NIGHT
Card Flips: OFF
Night Talking: ON
In-Thread Talk Only: ON

KitB: ON
Instant Lynch: ON
No Lynch at less than 1/3 of the votes.

Example: If there are 12 players, a player will be instantly lynched on receiving 7 votes. If no player has 4 or more votes when the phase ends, no one will be lynched.

You will be replaced if you make no posts for two phases in a row.

24-hour nights, 48-hour days. A phase may be extended for 24 hours once if enough users make a request due to unavailability.

Green Victory: Eliminate the four Reds.
Red Victory: Get to a 1:1 Red to Green/Blue ratio.

16 Players

GREEN (9)
Citizen (x7) - Just your average citizen.
Model Citizen (Blue Miller) - You appear as Blue to the Shaman's search.
Aide (BPV Citizen) - At night, you can choose to wear your bullet-proof vest which will disintegrate after two uses. The Inspector and Enforcer will recognize you if you are killed.

SPECIAL (3)
Inspector (Seer/One-shot Vigi) - Each day, you can choose one player to look into, alive or dead, as being Green or Red. (You will get the results at the end of the day phase.) During the night, you can choose to kill one player who you have seen is red, but you can only use this skill once during the game. Whichever wolf was sent to make the night's kill will attack your target instead. The Enforcer and Aide will recognize you if you are killed.
Enforcer (Seer/Bodyguard) - Each night, you can choose one player to look into, alive or dead, as Green or Red. (You will get the results at the end of the night phase.) Also during the night, you can choose to guard another player. If this player is attacked by a wolf, both you and the attacker will be killed. You may use both of your skills every night as long as you are alive. The Inspector and Aide will recognize you if you are killed.
Dr. Blocker (Roleblocker/One-shot Doctor) - You can choose one player to block from carrying out their role each night. You can choose to use your healing device on this player, but the device only works once.

RED (4)
Master Wolf - You appear Green to the seers. You can choose who to send to make the kill, and your kill vote overrides the others. You bite your victims.
Shaman - Each night, you can seer a player, alive or dead, as Green or Blue. You slash your victims up with your claws.
Wolf (x2) - You're an average werewolf who bites your victims.

Night Kill
The Master Wolf has the final say in who to target and who to carry out the kill. If the Master Wolf is killed (or doesn't send in a PM), the last wolf to send in a kill will be the one to carry out the kill on that player. Blocking the MW only stops the night kill if the MW is the one who carries out the kill.

[Xiz]

I'll make my player comments in a bit... but what I can't forget about this game:


"Oh, two blues revealed? MIGHT AS WELL LYNCH XIZ THEN"

[Charu]

Oh hey, the game is over.

So yeah, the wolves had a shutout. Very good game wolves. Shoutouts to RSD for making an exciting moment happen in this TWG.

Originally Posted by Silvuh

But anyway, Krauthammer gets the Human MVP for being the least toxic of the bunch.

Wow, what's this suppose to mean? You wanna fite Silvuh?

I'll take away those eggs, gra-gra!

[pntballa18]

Lots of lucky breaks for us, not gonna lie. To start off, I'll give a rundown of some of our motivations throughout the game.

First off, I definitely was afraid of "getting Manti'd", as cedolad put it, and that was the motivation behind the first kill.

After looking through the roles, I didn't think we had a chance in this game. One super guardian-seer, one vigi-seer, one roleblocker-guardian, and one human with extra information plus 2 nights immunity. Since I figured death was inevitable and that we would get seered eventually, I tried to bait the enforcer to seer me night 2. The plan was for me to do some super sketchy voting at the last second to kill someone, after which RiotPolice (our MW) would call me out on it and hopefully be the first to call out what would end up being a confirmed wolf. But the way the votes turned out that wasn't possible.

Night 2 I had a hunch that YoshL was the inspector, he was asking some very specific role related questions pretty late in the game so that was enough to incriminate him in my eyes. It had nothing to do with him being suspicious of inactives, or any of his suspicions, I just thought he was the inspector.

Day 2 was pure luck. Riot was dead to rights until BDN showed up at the last minute, not only getting the focus off of RiotPolice but also getting the day extension wheels in motion. After the extension, charu's slip of the tongue is the only thing that saved RiotPolice from being lynched again.

Night 3 we did some process of elimination and figured out that between Krauthammer, T-Force, and dAnceguy there was the enforcer, Dr, and a human. We chose to seer dAnceguy because we suspected he was the human in the group, and seering the human would confirm who the two blues were, whereas seering one of the blues would still leave us wondering about the second. We also chose to kill Krauthammer because we figured between T-Force and him, Krauthammer would be more dangerous to us if he turned out to be the enforcer. He was already suspicious of pretty much our whole group (which no one brought up after we killed him, another lucky break) and I actually thought he had already seered one of us.

So with dAnceguy's seering coming back as green on night 3, we knew that both Krauthammer and T-force were blues. We then put a lot of pressure on T-Force the next day to get him to reveal, with the original plan being to have RiotPolice counterclaim if T-Force turned out to be the Dr. The idea was to tie up tokzic's seer for at least one day, and then kill him the next night since we knew he wouldn't be protected by the then dead enforcer.

Runescapedude ended up counterclaiming instead, which actually worked out pretty alright since he played the part better than RiotPolice thought he himself could, and he didn't get seered. Going into night 4, we thought we had all but won until this post, after which we thought we were fucked. We narrowed our options down to two courses of action. The first was to kill runescapedude in an attempt to throw off Tokzic's reads and possibly make him reconsider, and the second was to wolf the person with the least public suspicion and hope that someone places a safety vote before tokzic gets one of us lynched. We chose the second option, and it turned out for the best.

After that it was just up to the RNG.

[Charu]

Personally, actually... I don't know since Tokzic never said he knew it was you four. Maybe, just maybe killing RSD would've caused an uproar and thus have the town lynch T-Force, but we can only speculate what would've happen, huh?

I think wih this course of action, you guys could've made away with the RNG.

In either case, it seems like you guys were riding with luck on this one, huh? No casualties on your part too, so that's brownie points.

You did a good job pnt for being not even questioned or on anyone's list.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, and this is my third game, and I have not won a single one yet. G to the G man. 0-3 for me, wow.

[YoshL]

fuck fuck stupid stupid stupid wow cmon bdnbdnbdn

[Charu]

Oh yeah, but in future games, can you guys not decide who to lynch in the final minutes of a phase? I'm guilty of this because me going to BDN, but who could blame me? Suddenly a post that just made me question him and made me go "Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh?"

...I have to ask since that was a consistent thing it felt like, wolves, were you using the last minute pushes to your advantage and wanted them to happen?

[DarkManticoreX2]

Day starts from now on please.

Night 1 wolvings suck. Was 3/4 at the end before the rushvote.

[Xiz]

Okay, just a few comments about everyone:


1. Krauthammer - Darn, should have listened to you more. We were kinda on the same page but I didn't even really consider you into the picture. Nice job staying focused and on track though
2. YoshL - I love fighting with you. It's fun. <3 haha
3. DarkManticoreX2 - RIP never got to really play w/ ya haha
4. Brilliant Dynamite Neon Screw you, you killed me when I was so close to killing mellon haha
5. runescapedude1126 Hats off to you man. Really, hats off. I had 3 of the wolves in the palm of my hand and you just pulled a 180 on me. That counterclaim really really messed me up. Props.
6. thesunfan Stop thinking like me lol
8. jwcgator Yeah you kinda were afk I don't know what to say about you haha.
9.Charu Sorry snivy, my bad for killing you. Bad bad choice on my part.
10. dAnceguy117 Dude you confused me so hard this game haha. I didn't get you. Your gonna be really weird when you are a wolf, I can't wait to see it.
11. DragonIIDX Sorry you didn't get to play more I hope you keep playing though!!
12. Tokzic If only you listened to me.......
13. mellonxcollie If only anyone listened to me about you.... hahaha. So close, yet soooo far. Well done.
14. T-Force for a first game, you really played well. I really hope you play more!
15. pntballa18 Big props to you. Like, you fell off the radar soooooooo haaarrrrddddd. I don't know how I really missed you. Woops. Nicely done.
16. Riotpolice Well deserved win. You played flawless. I mean, we almost caught you, but anything can happen this game. I wont be so light on you next time :P

[pntballa18]

Originally Posted by Charu

...I have to ask since that was a consistent thing it felt like, wolves, were you using the last minute pushes to your advantage and wanted them to happen?

Kinda, I guess. Day 1 was the only day I actively tried to change the result last minute, and that was to get the enforcer to seer me. But that didn't work out as planned. Day two benefited us obviously because it was our guy who was saved by the last minute switch. Day 3 I switched last minute because Tokzic asked us to, and it didn't really affect us. Although looking back this could've been used against us to narrow down the remaining wolves, so that probably wasn't a smart idea.

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

Day starts from now on please.

Night 1 wolvings suck. Was 3/4 at the end before the rushvote.

Which players did you have pinned down, and what gave it away?

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Silvuh

I should have posted my new game in the host sign-up thread first to get more comments on it there before making a player sign-up thread with a game that is quite different. But people didn't really seem to notice or just didn't care enough to comment on the changes? I don't know.

I'm personally going to start more seriously considering the balance of a game when looking at the host signup thread. I'm guilty of not even considering it and just voting for the game that seems more fun. It was an unpleasant surprise when I got my role and for the first time considered how much this game tipped in the human's favor. I don't want to surprised like that anymore, so I'll definitely give my input on the game's balance in host signup threads from now on.

[dAnceguy117]

great game, everyone!

- pntballa, Raeko, Riotpolice, and runescape, I think you all played great. each of you did things individually which gave you the edge. nice planning behind the scenes as well.

- so many posts! it's really cool to see such high levels of activity and interest. interestingly enough, I think we may have crossed the threshold here, where the sheer number of posts made actually helped the wolves to an extent. important posts were buried by other posts.

- we haven't played many games without cardflipping lately. I don't know about any of the other townies, but I don't think I was quite ready to adapt. I was looking for a few things I shouldn't have been as concerned about, and I ignored a few things I should have picked up on. it'll be interesting to see how the community continues to develop.

- the TWG Skype group threatens the integrity of thread-only games. I thought we did a good job of avoiding discussion about the game, but it came up once or twice. some of the messages affected my reads (mostly in my favor). this issue ought to be addressed before the next game.

- thanks to Silvuh for hosting! probably one of the best-hosted games I've played in. no real flubs, and vote tallies aplenty. I'm a slacker and haven't been reading the story. doing that now!

Originally Posted by pntballa18

We chose to seer dAnceguy because we suspected he was the human in the group

awwww I tried to drop a couple of PR tells early, but I definitely lost focus on that at some point. good eye, wolves.

Originally Posted by Charu

Oh yeah, and this is my third game, and I have not won a single one yet. G to the G man. 0-3 for me, wow.

AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT! jk I think you've come incredibly far since your first game. if town had sheeped your Riot read, this game may have been very different. that W will come soon.

Originally Posted by YoshL

fuck fuck stupid stupid stupid wow cmon bdnbdnbdn

the above quote might be tongue-in-cheek but I'd like to nip this in the bud. please don't do this. humans make mistakes. wolves make mistakes. players learn from mistakes and improve and make our community more exciting UNLESS we deride each other for each error made.

I think it's been a long time since this sort of endgame situation has arisen, where a human doesn't realize that an errant vote will lead to wolves quickly voting for the win. lesson learned for everyone!

Originally Posted by Charu

Oh yeah, but in future games, can you guys not decide who to lynch in the final minutes of a phase?

late decisions from the town have become a habit here, it seems. I think it's poor town play. the trend will shift if and when enough players realize this and make a concerted effort to correct it over the course of a few games.

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

the above quote might be tongue-in-cheek but I'd like to nip this in the bud. please don't do this. humans make mistakes. wolves make mistakes. players learn from mistakes and improve and make our community more exciting UNLESS we deride each other for each error made.

i would like to fully clarify that i'm not trying to like insult anyone, it's more of a "nooooooooooooooooooooooooo" tone rather than "holy shit you're a bad player"

(sorry)

just a tiny bit salty that i had to watch, but ah well. gratz riot, successful first game indeed, really hope to see everyone make re-appearances in more games~

[pntballa18]

To those of you who died this game: did you continue to follow along afterwards?

[Riotpolice]

The Postgame

Wow before I even start this post, I just want to thank you guys for hosting and playing such an excellent game. I really don't have any words in my mouth right now except for thank you. It was an honor to play with you guys in my first game, truly and from the bottom of my heart.

Okay, so starting out:

There's really not going to be much of a postgame in this thread because we already pretty much discussed the postgame in the chat lol.

With that being said:

Originally Posted by Riotpolice

~I just want to take a moment right now to say that this game has been an absolutely amazing, new eye-opening experience for me. I always saw TWG thread floating around, but I had no clue what it was about. I want to thank those who have helped me through the game in terms of understanding it just because there are so many rules involved. And I also want to give a big thanks to danceguy117 for making this. If you didn't make that thread, I would have never known that this game existed. You may not have gotten the whole world to join in on this brilliant game, but you can say, without doubt, that you've picked me up out of the whole world. Again, thank you all.~

Thank you guys. Xiz, you'll see me in future games. Charu, you should have stood on my balls and crushed them with steel-toed boots when you had the chance. I'll take that to my grave, you WILL see me in future games. I want to thank the veteran players on my team for helping me out as the newbie MW(lol is it even legal to say stuff like "Newbie MW"?!) I've learned so much through this game, how to use logic and manipulate people. I had more fun than I would have even imagined in a forum game. I will continue to learn how to play this game better and also just have fun with you guys. You made this game fun, and I want to thank you all for that. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. There's no words to describe this intense and scheming game except for a 3 letter word: TWG.

Eat this non-van believers:
hulu.com/watch/4183

[Charu]

I would think if not for the extended time, something completely different would've happened. Possibly a no-lynch and all that good jazz. I'm thinking that could've been very benificial for the town to be honest while we gather our thoughts after the night and see who the wolves would kill, but once again, can only speculate what could've been, haha.

Oh, and Xiz, no worries, bro. But my goodness, I think every game from now on I'm going to just automatically put you in orange no matter what and if RSD plays another one, I kind of want him seer'd like... ASAP, lol.

Originally Posted by pntballa18

To those of you who died this game: did you continue to follow along afterwards?

I sure as hell kept up still. I wasn't very satisified about my death and was really rooting for the humans. Too bad it just didn't work out.

Originally Posted by Riotpolice

Charu, you should have stood on my balls and crushed them with steel-toed boots when you had the chance. I'll take that to my grave, you WILL see me in future games.

I'll have you know I won't lay off you next time, I hope you know this. The only reason I stopped was literally because of a similar scenario with me in my first game. A misunderstood human, so to speak. I was thinking that's what you were doing since you were new.

Heh... playing the noob card, ah well, just know it won't work next time, dohoho.

[pntballa18]

Originally Posted by Charu

I sure as hell kept up still. I wasn't very satisified about my death and was really rooting for the humans. Too bad it just didn't work out.

Originally Posted by Xiz

absolutely. haha it's fun

I think this is a pretty major benefit that in-thread talking only games have over the alternative. When AIM and skype is allowed, you can't really follow along after you die. You can see votes, and posts explaining votes, but for the most part you're out of the loop until someone posts an AIM/Skype transcript. I think it's really great that in games like these, if you die early you can follow along and make reads and guesses because you have access to as much information as everyone else who is still playing the game.

[Xiz]

Originally Posted by pntballa18

To those of you who died this game: did you continue to follow along afterwards?

absolutely. haha it's fun

[jwcgator]

I was so sad when I saw the rush vote after a badly timed human on human vote... because I did the same thing one time as werewolf, except, our vote took convincing.


>:C

[jwcgator]

Oh and sorry for following along for a good chunk, but chances were I would not have said anything noteworthy.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Originally Posted by pntballa18

Which players did you have pinned down, and what gave it away?

You and RSD easy.

You were (to me) the most obvious wolf. You didn't help, offered very little to the game and floated along without bringing up any contributory "to the human cause" posts. (I had JWC as wolf 4 for the same reasons)

RSD Because he didn't vote T-Force immediately. T-force showed anger at being counterclaimed, RSD was like "whatever this guy's trying to pretend to be me, I'm okay with it" It sent off a distinct I'm lying Vibe.


I only had Melon through Process of elimination. Kinda thought RP was human.