11-15-2008, 04:16 PM | #1 |
nobody fiffers anymore.
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Idea for the next jTWG
I'm claiming this now because I want to fix any problems with it before I host it.
Over the years, we've used basically the same setup for jTWG, but I suspect this tried and true approach has lost much of its usefulness. The thing wrong with our regular jTWG setup (wolves w/MW, seer, guard) is that players come to rely heavily on one strategy: Seer come out day one, guardian guard the seer, wolves fumble around looking for the guardian. This lends itself to a "follow-the-seer" mentality and restricts what can happen in the game. jTWGs are supposed to teach new players what they need to play TWG; to actively strategize, communicate, think for themselves, and be on watch for deception. How are we going to teach them this if they are just laying back, trusting the given information, and bandwagon voting on every person who was "seered red"? I browsed through some stuff and did some thinking, and I came up with this. 12 players. 3 Wolves 1 Master Wolf* 9 Humans 2 Special Humans, picked randomly from the following 4: Seer, Guardian, Psychic, Wolfsbane *Master Wolf would be useless in a game without a seer, but the role will remain so that the wolves can't know if there's a seer or not. --------------------------------------------------------------------- So basically everything is known about the game except the special roles. This one mystery element opens a surprising number of possiblities. It abates the solve-all seer and guard strategy and is overall a better learning environment - and isn't this what we're aiming for in jTWG? Discuss, comment, critique, etc.
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11-15-2008, 04:56 PM | #2 |
FFR Player
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
You could make it really confusing and have a "cursed seer".
(This is a terrible idea btw, mine that is) Have like 75% chance seer gets the correct results, 25% chance the seer gets the wrong results. That way, there has to be more than just "well, you got seer'd!" to lynch someone. More thought provoking. As for your idea, I think that it should be Seer or Guardian and Psychic or Wolfsbane. A game w/ a wolfsbane and a guard (I think) wouldn't be too much fun, unless there's cardflipping. EDIT: Or have the "cursed seer" have 75% chance they get results, 25% chance they don't. Or something...
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11-15-2008, 06:16 PM | #3 |
TWG Veteran
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
You still have the problem of following only the blues. It doesn't matter if it's a seer, new players are going to trust a blue.
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11-15-2008, 06:36 PM | #4 |
FFR Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
At least in this setup the seer can't just come out, because the other blue may not be the guardian.
Determining who is blue and who isn't is much more difficult in this game setup.
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Be efficient. Last edited by DrKirth; 11-15-2008 at 06:38 PM.. |
11-15-2008, 06:40 PM | #5 |
FFR Player
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
I like the idea, but I think the best way to promote active strategising is by using masons. Their power is the ability to communicate truthfully. If you can fit masons in, then you would have something going.
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11-15-2008, 06:47 PM | #6 | ||
TWG Veteran
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
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What? But, Atz is on to something. I'm still thinking the original idea has flaws, BDN. But, I'm only poking holes in it to get it perfect. |
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11-16-2008, 01:42 AM | #7 |
FFR Player
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
I think that this is a better idea, whatever is chosen. I didn't use much strategy at all during the last game, and I followed Kirth's lead.
What if we didn't have a seer at all? Find the wolves completely by strategy. There could still be items or something that could give someone a one-time seering, but nothing permanent. |
11-16-2008, 01:47 AM | #8 |
TWG Veteran
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
So, you're proposing a man hunt game-ish?
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11-16-2008, 01:50 AM | #9 |
FFR Player
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
This is a good idea, if you ask me. The way that everyone follows the seer is why I've been trying to host that game I made for jTWG, honestly.
At the same time, though, I think it would be better to use a few other roles so that the new people at least know what they are. Maybe stick a pair of masons or a miller in there (if there's a game with a seer). |
11-16-2008, 01:51 AM | #10 |
FFR Player
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
Rzr, the whole point of what you posted when Manti fooled the humans into killing 2 humans is just part of the game. People have to learn from their mistakes sometime.
I suppose a man-hunt game wouldn't be all bad, provided we got some sort of hint here and there in the right direction, otherwise it's "let's just lynch anybody" and it's the easiest wolf victory ever.
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11-16-2008, 02:01 AM | #11 |
MMM WATCHA SAY
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
I really like the idea (somewhat like what roundbox and me did in the last TWG) of giving out a lot of small roles instead of a couple big ones. If you could pick or create minor roles, it may go a long way to promoting activity (more people are blue, and feel more involved), but as far as everyone following one person, that's up to the players to not let happen.
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11-16-2008, 02:28 AM | #12 |
TWG Veteran
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
Flaw pretty much hit it. Kinda. You need small HUMAN roles. And that's only assuming you force special roles to be existant.
Now, listen up. Figuritively. There is only one way to assure that the new players don't play follow the leader. NO special roles. It doesn't matter if it's a seer. A guard. A psychic. An elemental. A mystery role. A mason. A vigilante. An epic god. It doesn't matter. If the new player sees a special role and think they can trust it, they're going to trust it. You can't get around that. Purple, blue, orange, maroon, it doesn't matter. The only way to achieve your goal is to have simply humans and wolves. |
11-16-2008, 02:59 PM | #13 |
FFR Player
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 479
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
Host that next game, it sounds awesome...
I didn't read the other posts, because I'm lazy, so if somebody pointed a problem with it, I am unware =P
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11-16-2008, 03:04 PM | #14 |
TWG Veteran
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
Right. How helpful.
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11-18-2008, 07:53 AM | #15 |
nobody fiffers anymore.
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
Just trying to expand it and implement some suggestions. Feel free to comment further.
16 players. 4 Wolves 1 Master Wolf (gets an extra kill once during the game)* 1 Wolf Seer 12 Humans 2 Special Humans, picked from the following 4: Seer, Psychic, Wolfsbane, Vigilante 3 Masons 1 Red Miller* *Master Wolf and Red Miller would be useless in a game without a seer, but the role will remain so that the wolves can't know if there's a seer or not (Doesn't matter for the miller)
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Thanks for the memories, folks. u da bes Last edited by Brilliant Dynamite Neon; 11-19-2008 at 08:10 AM.. |
11-18-2008, 08:22 AM | #16 |
TWG Veteran
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
BDN, I really hope you're including the special roles among the total human count. Otherwise, wolves might as well not play. Also, if you're still going for the original idea of not playing follow the leader, you're still off. I'm not sure why people aren't getting it, but you can't have special roles in the game without someone going to follow them. As long as they're human. It's either everyone's special, or nobody's special.
P.S. Shadow, are you really trying to tell me that a game where one wolf against x humans is the easiest wolf victory ever? Because... Yeah. |
11-18-2008, 09:10 AM | #17 |
FFR Player
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 479
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
^Rzr, I don't think his complaint was about bandwagoning players, but was about the whole Seer + Gaurd combo, which would be less possible to do if, there was a chance that there wasn't a gaurd (Or seer for that matte >.>) >_>
Correct me if I'm wrong Neon... Or better yet, just ignore me...
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11-18-2008, 09:18 AM | #18 |
TWG Veteran
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
Well, the balance of BDN's game feels shaky to me. Something about 5 blues on 4 wolves makes me wonder. The Red Miller helps, but... Some sort of cursed human would probably be good. Dunno, it'd be a lot of fun. The thing is, if the humans knock a wolf off in the beginning the wolves are at bad odds. The game could either be great or go quick and suck. Hopefully, it'll be good.
@ Ruritsu: If he's going for the original goal he's failed miserably. If he's just looking to make a cool game he's succeeded. |
11-19-2008, 08:09 AM | #19 | ||
nobody fiffers anymore.
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Re: Idea for the next jTWG
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~ OFFICIALLY RETIRED FROM FFR THE GAME AND FFR TWG ~
Thanks for the memories, folks. u da bes |
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