Old 07-10-2013, 03:40 PM   #2081
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

The game doesn't change the frame structure though, it just compresses the whole file, frame gaps and everything.

Example of what I mean, put Pure Ruby on isolation at 1206, and check the roll structure on different rates. It stays the same no matter what.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:52 PM   #2082
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

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The game doesn't change the frame structure though, it just compresses the whole file, frame gaps and everything.
Okay I just dicked around a bit in R3 and you're right...I'm confused as to how this affects judgment though (the game can't possibly be running in 30fps at this point anymore even if I select that as my framerate option, so I don't know exactly where the perfect window starts and ends...arc?)

Anyways I just isolated the Skeletor wall at 1.1/1.2 and a few other rolly things (DeVouR etc.) I thought should theoretically be much easier to bs through given the higher roll speed, and yeah, I'm finding it much easier to AAA.

Obviously this problem doesn't exist for the vast majority of songs, but it's still there.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:54 PM   #2083
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

It uses milisecond timing if you use 30 fps on rates, and keeps frame timing if you don't use rates.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:56 PM   #2084
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

Okay yeah ms timing on rates for rolls like that compared to how it's timed out on 1.0 makes it a joke to jumptrill through.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:58 PM   #2085
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

Even if it does help with walls and jumptrilling in general, it also makes the rest of the file much much harder. (The jumptrilling reason was why I wanted a minimum rate that would record, like 1.3 or something)
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:00 PM   #2086
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

Starting at something like 1.3 would solve this problem, although it seems pretty arbitrary. The increased difficulty for earlier sections in the file on 1.1 compared to 1.0 is negligible compared to how much easier the ending becomes.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:02 PM   #2087
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

maybe make songs on higher rates after difficulty 81 or something not count? idk that's up to you guys

that kinda "easier to bs for AAA" problem only affects <30 players




also for the easier-to-bs patterns that may arise in certain parts in certain songs that are above difficulty let's say.. 80
are evened out by the fact that well

you're playin fuckin devour on 1.1 lmfao, the other parts should be that much harder
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:02 PM   #2088
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

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Starting at something like 1.3 would solve this problem, although it seems pretty arbitrary. The increased difficulty for earlier sections in the file on 1.1 compared to 1.0 is negligible compared to how much easier the ending becomes.
take into consideration that the vast majority of players...aren't as good as you?
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:03 PM   #2089
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

Well having a minimum difficulty helps since otherwise you could do something like 1.05 and make that increased difficulty even more negligible. I agree that it's arbitrary and should be decided as a community, but I think it's the only way to make everyone happy really.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:04 PM   #2090
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

I think in almost all cases, the higher rate increases the difficulty enough on the rest of the file to compensate, but I'm not a top tier player, so I don't know.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:04 PM   #2091
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

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I think in almost all cases, the higher rate increases the difficulty enough on the rest of the file to compensate, but I'm not a top tier player, so I don't know.
this is correct

playing devour on 1.1 makes some stuff easier to bs like the reversing rolls but the rest of the file is that much harder lol






who the fuck plays 85+ songs on higher rates and gets better scores than 1.0 anyways
answer: like nobody on like 2 songs
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:05 PM   #2092
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

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take into consideration that the vast majority of players...aren't as good as you?
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i think in almost all cases, the higher rate increases the difficulty enough on the rest of the file to compensate, but i'm not a top tier player, so i don't know.
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this is correct

playing devour on 1.1 makes some stuff easier to bs like the reversing rolls but the rest of the file is that much harder lol

who the fuck plays 85+ songs on higher rates and gets better scores anyways
like i said
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:05 PM   #2093
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

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take into consideration that the vast majority of players...aren't as good as you?
Regardless of my skill level, this is a problem. A file that becomes easier on a higher rate to any player shouldn't have scores reflected in the 1.0 scoreboard for that file. You can't really argue against that.

I know you said AJ tested this earlier (another D7 player) but I just did the same and I'm finding myself having a much more manageable time hitting rolls on rates than on 1.0

Again, I have nothing against having rates on songs reflected in the scoreboards if the song truly becomes more difficult to score on, which, like I said before, will be the case 99% of the time. The 1% is a problem, and if there's a way around that, I'd like that.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:08 PM   #2094
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

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Regardless of my skill level, this is a problem. A file that becomes easier on a higher rate to any player shouldn't have scores reflected in the 1.0 scoreboard for that file. You can't really argue against that.

I know you said AJ tested this earlier (another D7 player) but I just did the same and I'm finding myself having a much more manageable time hitting rolls on rates than on 1.0
might as well get rid of speedmods, cause they make reading easier, as well as mirror, because it's actually changing the file patterns to be easier to hit in /alot/ of cases, and probably any other thigns like downscroll. hell, even key configs that make the game easier, gotta get rid of those too right

this is like gay marriage. "omfg don't want it cause it's not natural and it hasn't been done before it's not right because reasons". well.

I'm not trying to like, attack you, i'm just saying the reasoning that you're giving doesn't like, resonate with not letting scores record on higher rates
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:10 PM   #2095
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

Making some parts harder to compensate for other parts being easier would allow people to pseudo-balance their skillsets and songs would be easier in general. J/S
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:10 PM   #2096
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

ye i think a lotta peeps get the point now

now just gotta get the word from admins who can actually make this happen (coding wise)

i think a good solution for the "easier to AAA on higher rates for d7 players" is to simply make difficulty 80+ rates not count for leaderboards

i mean it's hard enough to AAA difficulty 81+ songs on 1.0 rate, i highly doubt that many people will AAA 81+ songs on 1.1 and higher
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:11 PM   #2097
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

Okay let me break this down, since Yoshl doesn't seem to be understanding my argument entirely and I didn't really articulate this at any point.

If, for example, rate scores were to record to the same scoreboard as 1.0, I'm saying that now, after testing this, there will be players that can AAA something like Skeletor on 1.1 but will be unable to do the same on 1.0. Why should these scores be reflected in the same scoreboard for this file as 1.0 scores if the player is unable to achieve the same score without rates?

If some of you guys don't see the potential problem there, then I don't know what else to say lol
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:12 PM   #2098
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

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might as well get rid of speedmods, cause they make reading easier, as well as mirror, because it's actually changing the file patterns to be easier to hit in /alot/ of cases, and probably any other thigns like downscroll. hell, even key configs that make the game easier, gotta get rid of those too right

this is like gay marriage. "omfg don't want it cause it's not natural and it hasn't been done before it's not right because reasons". well.

I'm not trying to like, attack you, i'm just saying the reasoning that you're giving doesn't like, resonate with not letting scores record on higher rates
No that is a slippery slope argument, he has a point that if it makes a file easier for some players, it can be an issue.

The question in my mind is how much of an issue it is, and if it's a good enough reason not to allow rates to record.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:12 PM   #2099
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okay then the coders will make exceptions
done deal

the game managers like owa/dossar know all the nitty gritty details about what songs can be easier to AAA on 1.1 and higher for d6+ players (less than 10 i bet)
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:16 PM   #2100
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Default Re: FFR Suggestions

The thing is, it's only easier because the "difficult" part is bullshitting through rolls by hitting them as jumps, which is I don't think is good from a game-design point of view. People like smartdude should not have problems AAAing Skeletor, he's way above the skill level of the song.

I tried playing Skeletor on both on 1.1 and 1.0, and as a D5 player, I would never come close to beating my score on 1.1 even if the roll is slightly easier (not very noticeable to me)




I can't really think of a song that would be easier on rates as a whole, maybe some patterns isolated, but not the whole song.
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