TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I'm back to the theory where Sunfan did receive an item, but is lying about receiving it.

I feel like I have too many towns if that's not true.

I did not receive an item

I have no reason to lie about this

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

Wolves don't kill him because they could kill town and make us waste our lynch on him.

Town don't kill him because, with Dafty a wolf, we lynch him today and kill a wolf for the lynch. And with Dafty a town, we lynch the grossly inactive today for the lynch instead of possibly mislynching somebody actually doing anything.
.

even if dafty was town, its still really good to kill him there as town because you get a lot of info in the KitB between him and fg

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Daikyi

again, why assuming that my save was actually valid

we don't have to assume it was valid but it sure would help because if you saved like funnier or something then we'd probably know that that wasn't a save

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

I don't think dai's save hit. Pretty sure dai was the nk.

and you watched him, right?
so, did anyone other than gs visit him?
because if just gs was there, its not likely that the wolves tried to kill dai without there being a ninja or something

[Not devonin]

I'm back to the theory where some people suggested Haku was scum, and then some people said that since he was a fruit vendor he was almost certainly town, and then Haku just off the top of his head linked a game from -years ago- to prove you can have all lost wolves, and it was a game with a wolf fruit vendor.

And it makes me wonder if he was reading that thread for like...tips on being a wolf fruit vendor and forgot that it would make him look sketchy to link it re: lost wolves.

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

If I had a kill power right now, I'd be waiting until I had at least a strong suspicion that somebody was a wolf who was actually doing shit. Is that a bad strategy?

shoot early, shoot often as vigi

ffa has a good comparison to MtG where you play a card that makes you discard/exile other cards but the initial card is really good

sure, you can lose some good shit, but the fact that you have the card on the field more than makes up for the lost cards almost all of the time

yeah it sucks if dafty was like a seer or something, but he also had negative 25 posts per phase and wasn't really helping anyone solve

it was a good shot even if he was the seer

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

Like, when H&H died I was like "That makes sense to me. Lacking other info on who to kill, get rid of the only person who could anchor a confirmed town group." and then several people were like "What a weird kill that does not make sense to me" and I'm just kinda like "wtf"

what's more threatening?

most town roles

or

an innocent child?

[Not devonin]

I get that, I do. I just can't reconcile it with "He was 100% going to get lynched the next phase anyway" like, there was -zero- chance unless somebody got a hard red report and was willing to claim it, that Dafty lived through the lynch, so it more seems wasteful than strategic.

It's like playing a card that exiles other cards and the effect is 'destroy target creature' and you use it on a creature that they were going to have to sacrifice on their upkeep anyway before it could attack you.

[Not devonin]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

what's more threatening?

most town roles

or

an innocent child?

More things I understand in theory, but where in this individual messed up game of practice, I find less clear. Like, yes most town roles are stronger than a vanilla town. But the wolves also had no idea what powers were out there, who could guard, who could block, who could seer etc etc.

Maybe I'm still just struggling to get out of the mode of being able to talk to individuals during the day, where an IC would have been super valuable because it was somebody all the blues could come out to.

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

I get that, I do. I just can't reconcile it with "He was 100% going to get lynched the next phase anyway" like, there was -zero- chance unless somebody got a hard red report and was willing to claim it, that Dafty lived through the lynch, so it more seems wasteful than strategic.

It's like playing a card that exiles other cards and the effect is 'destroy target creature' and you use it on a creature that they were going to have to sacrifice on their upkeep anyway before it could attack you.

you're slightly missing the point, I think

town has a limited number of kills on people who could be wolves

even if someone is town, its better to kill them because you win more games as town the more kills you have

frontloading your kills for information and because you /could/ die with your bullet(s) in the chamber as a vigi will win more games for town than it loses

[Not devonin]

I get the point, I was just considering Dafty functionally already killed at the time you're suggesting it was good to kill him. If he weren't -extremely- the next person to get lynched, I would just agree with you 100%

[gold stinger]

I'm probably sticking with my vote today. If rb flips wolf, then good chance pocketing happening in storn / gradiant, and can check early town reads for roundbox. If flips town, wolf is probably not in storn / gradiant, but FFA/soundwave/WV. Not exactly sure on that last part though, have to check interactions when i get home.

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

I get the point, I was just considering Dafty functionally already killed at the time you're suggesting it was good to kill him. If he weren't -extremely- the next person to get lynched, I would just agree with you 100%

well, assuming dafty was shot by a human
then, in a weird but also straightforward way, he /was/ the next lynch

[gold stinger]

Devonin and Shadow seem like the towniest people here. Hard to see where a wolf mailman was used for Svaz's part.

[Not devonin]

This whole thing is making me re-suspicious of Daikyi, but like...not in a way that implies he's a wolf, just that he might not be as pro-town as we've been assuming.

[Not devonin]

Which also has the effect of then making me get re-suspicious of sunfan.

[gold stinger]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

This whole thing is making me re-suspicious of Daikyi, but like...not in a way that implies he's a wolf, just that he might not be as pro-town as we've been assuming.

I think there could have been a thing where sunfan actually cucked town yes

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by gold stinger

Shadow seem like the towniest

how

[gold stinger]

Originally Posted by XelNya

how

Firstly as i said before, there is a ton of information bias regarding early talk in the game that would suggest otherwise, that isnt so much scumtell but bad play, and should have been coached in wolfchat. This point seems even greater when 2 lost wolves have already flipped.

Secondly, the whole self voting situation would not have happened unless they were put into a corner, couldnt keep up with the game, or thought that their flip would mean more than words. I'm thinking we are in a scenario where the third option is apparent, with a dash of the 2nd being the culprit.

[gold stinger]

Originally Posted by Not devonin

Which also has the effect of then making me get re-suspicious of sunfan.

No. Sunfan is 3p. End of story. More likely imo that its fabricated between WV and Daikyi but there really isnt reason at this time to go down that path.